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Post by Chris NM on Sept 17, 2008 17:32:33 GMT -7
I have been going back and forth on this and could use some help from the forum. I’m kind of between the Fralin vintage hot or blues specials for use with the ezg 50 and am afraid of making a $240 mistake. My style ranges from Fogerty and SRV. Any thoughts or do you think that I may be trying to get too much out of one guitar?
Should have mentioned it but it would be for a Fender 2000 AM strat alder body w/ a rosewood fret board.
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janlf
Full Member
Moment's Notice
Posts: 173
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Post by janlf on Sept 18, 2008 2:19:13 GMT -7
Hi.
I have an EZG50 and plays a Vinetto DC55 with Lollar pu's. They work really well for that amp with the range between fender-ish clean to marshall distorion. The output is 5,6K for the N & M and the bridge is 7,2 I believe. Compared to the Fralins output-vise their a hair less for N & M, but the bridge would be similar to the Blues Special.
Jan
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Post by mfirst on Sept 18, 2008 3:58:40 GMT -7
When I went to Z fest this year I took my Strat with Fralin Blues Specials. When I played it at the jam I was really happy with the tones I was getting. They are a fat sounding pickup.
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Post by Chris NM on Sept 18, 2008 16:39:27 GMT -7
I pulled the trigger today and decided to split the difference between the two. I also got the metal base plate for the bridge as well as the blender pot. Should be a good match for the ezg 50 and I'll share my findings when I get them.
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Post by dannybsj on Feb 5, 2009 22:14:55 GMT -7
lollar blackfaces are my fav. traded mine for some kinmans and want to trade back!
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Post by English John on Feb 6, 2009 2:50:01 GMT -7
Not a huge fan of Fralins, Bare knuckle pickups have just bought out a new set that sound amazing. I have 2x62 strats and they're definitely the closest.
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Post by m1911 on Feb 6, 2009 5:30:10 GMT -7
I had installed a couple of sets of Blues Specials in a couple of Scoty's old Strats, but got rid of those particular Guitars and switched over to Custom Shop Time Machine 56's and then put Vintage Hots in them with Steel Pole 43's in the Bridges. Nicest Strat tone I've heard....a hair less dark than the Blues Specials and sound as Stratty as ever now. I've dealt with Lindy for about 10 years and over that time have bought at least 20 sets including Single Coils, PAF style Humbuckers, P-90's, and Jazz Bass..... He is GREAT to deal with and everytime I've ever spoken with him, he always points out if you don;t like them (and haven't cut the leads) you can send them back and he will alter the wind to something different. There are several really nice custom pick-up makers out there, and over at the Les paul Forum, guys switch out a lot to the latest flavor of the week.....but when you are 100% satisfied with something, why bother changing? Mark
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Feb 6, 2009 7:34:12 GMT -7
hey crow, I've been down this road before (a few times ) I've been a Strat player and a SRV fan for quite a long time. Here's my take on it. I've been experimenting with pickups, Strats, body wood, neck woods, fingerboard woods, neck construction methods, bridge types... you name it for years. I have done a lot of research and discussed this with people whose opinion I respect. This doesn't mean that I know everything; just that I have formed an opinion. My number one observation is that the pickup, as good as it may be, must be matched to the particular guitar's wood/construction/etc. to get the sound *you* are looking for. To paraphrase Harry Potter "the pickup chooses the guitar". I did a lot of research into SRV's gear back in the day. He did things like changing his amps to solid state rectifiers, used bigger baffle boards in his combos with EV speakers, 5751's in V1, etc. to get a clean front end, some power tube breakup, and zero speaker distortion at high volumes to get great sustain. I don't know what the specs on SRV's "number one" pickups are; and even if we knew the DC resistance that's only part of the story. What I do know is that the people I've heard get closest to the SRV vibe aren't using higher output pickups, but lower output ones. I've always believed that SRV's pickups were lower output than a lot of people would think. I've got a particularly nice Fender SRV signature Strat in which I've installed an obscene number of pickups. I'm a Fralin guy in general (although I like Lollars, Amalfitano, Suhr, etc. too) and after much experimentation I think that the Fralin Vintage pickups sounded best in it. The Blues Specials are a nice pickup for sure but they had just a little too much midrange in the alder bodied guitar for me. It just depends on what characteristics your guitar has when played acoustically- you need to pick a pickup that complements what it does best and not try to make it into something its not. When I ordered my Grosh Retro Classic last year I had a long talk about pickups with Stu from Fatsound (one of my "go-to" tone consultants). He recommended Fralin Vintage pickups with a SP43 in the bridge. When he got my guitar in he called me up and said that it of the "Strat spectrum of sounds" from chmey to fat and growly that my Grosh was one of the fattest, most "SRV #1" sounding he'd ever heard. It's just an alder bodied, maple neck/rosewood board Strat, but done *right*. It's so resonant that the pickups just amplify what's there. It **kills** my Fender SRV Strat with any pickup. As far as the EZG-50 goes, it's very tolerant of almost any pickup. The front end of the amp has enough headroom so that it won't get too muddy or overdriven unless you're using the Chris Holmes signature model PU's For anything from Trower to Jimi to SRV to Knopfler or Fogerty I think the Fralin Vintage are a very versatile set. The Blues Specials are great as well but you're getting away from the Knopfler type stuff unless you're using an lightweight ash bodied/maple neck guitar- I've heard some killer Strats with that setup. However, that's my taste which may or may not be the same as someone else's.
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Post by brad737 on Feb 7, 2009 9:20:08 GMT -7
Awesome post, Phil. I haven't tried any Fralins in a Strat. I have a set of Blues Specials in a Tele, but that's another animal entirely.
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Post by Chris NM on Feb 8, 2009 10:43:49 GMT -7
WOW!! thanks for all of the great replies. John I'm gonna have to check out those bare knuckles once I figure out what the exchange rate is. Which ones did you go with? If those are the ones that you used on your stellar video, then sign me up. I still think about that post.
Well, it's been a while since my original post and I have spent a few dollars and I've learned a couple things. Evan is really my first nice amp. Before I got it, I mostly played a Fender hotrod and any guitar that did not have a big bottom end and that had any treble just sounded awfully or not all there. The ezg really turned that around for me. It was the first time I had a blast on a tele.
I ended up going with Fralins that were wound between vintage hot and blues specials and I am not totally satisfied. The mid and the base are just a bit too much for me and I think I had my old amp in mind when I went shopping for these.
One of my problems I think is that I'm still using the hotrod as a speaker cab (1x12). The next step for me is a Z cab. I've got the 4x10 on order and I think that it'll be nice to have it in place to help me evaluate what I like and what I don' like.
Wish me luck and thank you all for being such a good sounding board.
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Post by djc (Dave) on Feb 8, 2009 11:32:57 GMT -7
hey crow, I've been down this road before (a few times ) I've been a Strat player and a SRV fan for quite a long time. Here's my take on it. I've been experimenting with pickups, Strats, body wood, neck woods, fingerboard woods, neck construction methods, bridge types... you name it for years. I have done a lot of research and discussed this with people whose opinion I respect. This doesn't mean that I know everything; just that I have formed an opinion. My number one observation is that the pickup, as good as it may be, must be matched to the particular guitar's wood/construction/etc. to get the sound *you* are looking for. To paraphrase Harry Potter "the pickup chooses the guitar". I did a lot of research into SRV's gear back in the day. He did things like changing his amps to solid state rectifiers, used bigger baffle boards in his combos with EV speakers, 5751's in V1, etc. to get a clean front end, some power tube breakup, and zero speaker distortion at high volumes to get great sustain. I don't know what the specs on SRV's "number one" pickups are; and even if we knew the DC resistance that's only part of the story. What I do know is that the people I've heard get closest to the SRV vibe aren't using higher output pickups, but lower output ones. I've always believed that SRV's pickups were lower output than a lot of people would think. I've got a particularly nice Fender SRV signature Strat in which I've installed an obscene number of pickups. I'm a Fralin guy in general (although I like Lollars, Amalfitano, Suhr, etc. too) and after much experimentation I think that the Fralin Vintage pickups sounded best in it. The Blues Specials are a nice pickup for sure but they had just a little too much midrange in the alder bodied guitar for me. It just depends on what characteristics your guitar has when played acoustically- you need to pick a pickup that complements what it does best and not try to make it into something its not. When I ordered my Grosh Retro Classic last year I had a long talk about pickups with Stu from Fatsound (one of my "go-to" tone consultants). He recommended Fralin Vintage pickups with a SP43 in the bridge. When he got my guitar in he called me up and said that it of the "Strat spectrum of sounds" from chmey to fat and growly that my Grosh was one of the fattest, most "SRV #1" sounding he'd ever heard. It's just an alder bodied, maple neck/rosewood board Strat, but done *right*. It's so resonant that the pickups just amplify what's there. It **kills** my Fender SRV Strat with any pickup. As far as the EZG-50 goes, it's very tolerant of almost any pickup. The front end of the amp has enough headroom so that it won't get too muddy or overdriven unless you're using the Chris Holmes signature model PU's For anything from Trower to Jimi to SRV to Knopfler or Fogerty I think the Fralin Vintage are a very versatile set. The Blues Specials are great as well but you're getting away from the Knopfler type stuff unless you're using an lightweight ash bodied/maple neck guitar- I've heard some killer Strats with that setup. However, that's my taste which may or may not be the same as someone else's. Love your reviews The forum would benefit with a "Phil's Review" section I waz juz thinkin' ;D
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Feb 8, 2009 15:22:11 GMT -7
Thanks for the kind words guys! crow- one more variable in the pickup equation is pickup height. That little distance between your strings and pickup is really important. A lot of times you're just a couple of turns away from tonal nirvana. If your pickup is too high it will be muddy. If it's too low you'll may have too little signal and not enough balls. Somewhere in between is a happy medium. Unfortunately there's no one measurement that you can read in a book and apply to every guitar and pickup and have it be right. You just have to experiment based on your pickups, strings, and touch. Also, the EZG-50 has a *ton* of bass, and mids that are more Hiwatt than Fender. I run my bass control *off* a lot, especially with the Z-Best and Z 4x10. Don't be afraid to crank the treble control either; you don't get harshness like you do on some other amps, unless it's coming from your speaker. Part of the "SRV" sound is not having too much bass from the amp, it comes from the harmonics only fat strings can generate. I always set my treble first (usually about 12:00 on a Z), then the mids (which will usually be from 9:00 to 12:00) and then set the bass by starting at "0" and very slowly raising it until you just hear it start to raise the bass, then stop. On the EZG that might be about 1/64 of a turn
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Post by English John on Feb 8, 2009 16:24:52 GMT -7
l think the reason i didn't like the fralins was because they didn't sound anything at all like the pickups in both of my 62s? I'm sure if you wasn't comparing they would sound good and just played them after being fitted, plus in a live environment they just don't cut it for what i like. crow are you going to Z fest? i can bring you a set of those bare knuckles accross? I've heard phil's version of little wing on youtube with his grosh strat and they do sound great in that but i've had NO luck at all with fralins in a fender
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Feb 8, 2009 16:32:21 GMT -7
Hey, I'm not going to argue with "English John"... John knows tone for sure.
I agree that Fralin's don't sound exactly like Fender's... I think it's the Fralins fatter lower mids that do it. Is that what you're hearing in the Fralins, John?
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Post by English John on Feb 8, 2009 16:39:57 GMT -7
They are great pickups, just not for me, i was trying to "fenderize" my tone even more when i tried them if you know what i mean? I thought your grosh sounded awesome though phil. I definitely prefer vintage style pickups, i always set my clean sound around positions 2 and 4 and if i can get a chime and sustain then i'm happy.
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Post by cementedman on Feb 8, 2009 19:44:18 GMT -7
i have the fralin vintage hot in the bridge of the grosh i had,, i cant say i really like it, i would call it "too" middy. i have the treble on the ezg50 all the way up, and the bass down etc,, tried all different ways,, they are not bad, they just dont give me what i want, really. they were recommended for the grosh retro classic, but if i had it to do over i would go another way. maybe i just havent tweaked the guitar and amp yet, though.
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Post by Chris NM on Feb 9, 2009 20:43:35 GMT -7
Z-Fest 09, how fun would that be? It's a tough proposition when I factor student loans, a state government salary, 2 kids and a Z habit. Some day I hope. Just not now.
It's nice to have others kind of affirm my findings with the Fralins. I've seen a number of forums where everyone just toted them as the holy grail and that was it. I'm sure they could be wonderful, but just not with my current setup. Right now I am kind of leaning toward Lollar (blond or blackface) or the bare knuckles (not sure which ones).
On a total side note, I took my EZG to a local amp tech / amp builder / Nash guitar dealer for a rebias and it was the most entertaining lunch hour ever. This older guy works out of a converted garage and I couldn't help but think about how the good Dr. got his start. He had so many amps that did so many things so well and he would have talked to me all day. I could go on and on, but it was a cool experience. I also liked the nash relic strats.
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Post by stratosphere on Feb 9, 2009 21:04:44 GMT -7
The closest PUP I've found to the "old" strat sound is the Duncan vintage staggered. I use a set I've had for 20 years. In an "AB" comparison with a freinds '62 that he's had since it was new, these were the closest. I also have fralins in another strat and they are different but wonderful too.
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Post by eliot1025 on Feb 25, 2009 5:59:08 GMT -7
Tyler pickups (and guitars) sound especially great with Fender and Fender-style amps. They're what he loves and plays through so I guess that's natural.
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kfkm
Full Member
Revelator 61
Posts: 162
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Post by kfkm on Mar 8, 2009 13:23:35 GMT -7
I have a strat that I built myself and about a year ago I put in a set of Rocketfire pickups and they are the closest to early 60's strat sound that I have come by. They sound great through my EZG-50. Just plugging in the guitar straight through the amp and all I can say is tone. They are available through rocketfireguitars.com but are a little pricey now as people have become aware of them.
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