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Post by sae2111 on Jan 14, 2008 17:30:13 GMT -7
I just picked up an American Deluxe Strat. It won't stay in tune, which seems strange as it has locking tuners, and the strings don't seem to sit correctly in relation to the neck. The 6th string is very close to the edge of the neck, and the 1st string is far from the edge. Is there some way to better align this? Any ideas on the tuning issue? Thanks. Seth
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Post by real oldster on Jan 15, 2008 1:27:50 GMT -7
In my opinion Seth your guitar needs professional attention to undo what an amateur has done. Good luck.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jan 15, 2008 6:45:51 GMT -7
+1 - listen to oldster.
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Jan 15, 2008 7:00:25 GMT -7
I've seen a lot of Strats that have the "E" string alignment problem. My own 1995 SRV Sig Strat had it, but not quite as bad as yours. I asked my trusted luthier about it when I was in his shop to have some work done on another guitar. He said that he's seen a lot of Strats with this issue also, and talked to a Fender rep about it. He said that the "fix" recommended by the rep for minor cases was to take the guitar in playing position with one hand on the body and one at the top of the neck, and push down hard. He said that for worse cases they would hold the guitar by the body and bang the headstock on a carpeted floor! The rep said they would never do that in front of a customer; that they would take it into the back room and do it. I asked my luthier what he would do (I've learned to trust his judgment) and he recommended the "floor" method! I said go for it, which he did, and sure enough the neck was dead on. It's still the best playing Strat I own. I do think it says something about Fender's quality control, though. As far as the tuning issue goes, I'll bet it's the nut. I've seen more incorrectly cut nuts than I can count from all manufacturers (except Grosh). My Gibson Johnny A Sig came with a horribly cut nut, and that's on a quite expensive Custom Shop instrument. Phil
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Post by zdogma on Jan 15, 2008 7:20:23 GMT -7
Do you have a picture of the bridge/bridge pickup?
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jan 15, 2008 8:59:31 GMT -7
Oh man... that conjures up some images I'd rather not imagine...
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Post by hogridr on Jan 15, 2008 9:19:56 GMT -7
I had a similar problem with my Eric Clapton strat. The first string set way to high and the sixth was almost off the fretboard. After some close inspection and comparison to an older strat I concluded it was the nut. After a few measurements and taking it to my local guitar tech he agreed. I replaced the nut with a Graph Tech and my problem was solved.
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Post by sae2111 on Jan 15, 2008 9:28:09 GMT -7
As I was playing last night, I broke a string, so when I restrung I started with the 1st string instead of the 6th. This seemed to pull the bridge in the right direction. Still too early to tell if it's going to stay in tune, but it seems to be doing better. The saddles also moved, but I checked the intonation and it was fine. Hmm...... Has anybody seen the bridge? There's that confounded bridge.
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Post by nori22 on Jan 16, 2008 8:14:33 GMT -7
Hi,,,from a new guy,1st post. re. neck alignment, here's an idea I read about years ago & it worked for me. Loosen the strings, clamp the body in a padded vice neck up. Unscrew the neck& remove it. Cut a small piece of fine metal window screen & put it in the neck pocket near the heel ,it doesn't need to be very big. Put the neck back on, when you put the screws in ,first turn them backwards a bit 'till they "cick" then start tighting them. That way you'll be back in the origional threads & not cutting new ones. When the neck is almost tight, line up the 2 E strings where you want them & finish tightening while watching the alignment. The screen will bite into the finish in the pocket & neck preventing movement.It's invisible, woln't hurt the guit. & the neck will not shift.....just a thought
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Post by zdogma on Jan 16, 2008 8:35:08 GMT -7
As I was playing last night, I broke a string, so when I restrung I started with the 1st string instead of the 6th. This seemed to pull the bridge in the right direction. Still too early to tell if it's going to stay in tune, but it seems to be doing better. The saddles also moved, but I checked the intonation and it was fine. Hmm...... Has anybody seen the bridge? There's that confounded bridge. Yeah, it looks just right. Maybe the trem wasn't seated correctly on the studs? I assume that the neck pickup alignment is fixed? I used to have a G&L that would do that once in a while.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jan 16, 2008 8:43:27 GMT -7
Hi,,,from a new guy,1st post. re. neck alignment, here's an idea I read about years ago & it worked for me. Loosen the strings, clamp the body in a padded vice neck up. Unscrew the neck& remove it. Cut a small piece of fine metal window screen & put it in the neck pocket near the heel ,it doesn't need to be very big. Put the neck back on, when you put the screws in ,first turn them backwards a bit 'till they "cick" then start tighting them. That way you'll be back in the origional threads & not cutting new ones. When the neck is almost tight, line up the 2 E strings where you want them & finish tightening while watching the alignment. The screen will bite into the finish in the pocket & neck preventing movement.It's invisible, woln't hurt the guit. & the neck will not shift.....just a thought nori22, karma for your first post! Interesting suggestion - have you tried this? Did it alter your string heights any? I'm curious, as it seems as if it would do a nice trick to help resolve this type of problem.
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Post by sae2111 on Jan 16, 2008 9:54:18 GMT -7
Yes, the alignment is and has stayed right where it should be. Still doesn't want to stay in tune though. I'm going to look into a new nut, maybe some new tuners. I don't know how I feel about the locking tuners anyway. The vintage tuners on my EJ strat work great.
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Post by Lefty on Jan 16, 2008 10:05:08 GMT -7
Get some Big Bends Nut Sauce. Good stuff. And have that nut filed proper.
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Post by nori22 on Jan 16, 2008 11:39:15 GMT -7
Hi Benttop,... Thanks, & yep, I did it on my strat some time ago, it has no effect on string height at all, the neck & pocket sort of meet through the screen so there is still full contact neck to bod wise (thus no tone loss)..of course the screws need to be tightened down pretty well, but a guy would do that anyway.
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Post by azatplayer on Jan 16, 2008 13:41:36 GMT -7
Ive had this problem on a Fender as well. I had a cutom strat some years ago, that had a piece of the said flywire in the neck pocket. My G&Ls are such a tight fit, you dont get much sideways movement, they actually fit each neck to each pocket using a dremel, but the Fenders Ive had, if u back off the neck screws, you can shift it any which way. Sloppy. Nice fix.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jan 16, 2008 14:21:24 GMT -7
Many manufacturers have gone to NC machines to make the neck pocket, and can do it to within a few thousandths of an inch. That makes for a lot tighter fit. I'm surprised Fender isn't doing this.
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Jan 16, 2008 15:56:25 GMT -7
I can't believe Fender is not doing *everything* wood related with CNC machines these days.
A side note: I got a Warmoth J-Bass body and neck a couple of years ago when I made my homemade "Jaco Pastorius" fretless. The neck was very slightly oversized; it would not fit into the body until you carefully sanded the sides of the neck. That made for a really really tight neck pocket. It explains that on the Warmoth web site somewhere. I thought that was a pretty good idea.
Phil
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Post by sae2111 on Jan 16, 2008 19:17:38 GMT -7
I was wrong about the tuning. She's still all over the place. After more close inspection, I've found that with some of the higher strings, you can push down hard at certain frets and make the notes go sharp like on a cheap, badly set up guitar. I'm thinking those of you who cried nut were on the money. :-)
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Post by guitarstan on Jan 16, 2008 19:28:59 GMT -7
Another interesting tidbit. Loosen the neck bolts just a tad while the strings are at full tension, enough to allow the neck to be pulled all the way into the body pocket, then retighten the bolts.
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Post by billyguitar on Jan 16, 2008 20:27:02 GMT -7
Tuners aren't the cause of tuning problems. Don't change them! Like everyone else says, it's the nut.
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buster
Junior Member
Posts: 73
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Post by buster on Jan 16, 2008 21:42:06 GMT -7
You can loosen the bolts on the neck, grab the neck and body and yank the neck until the strings sit right. That is how you fix that problem and you don't have to vice it or smash it on the ground and you more than likely don't need sandpaper or anything else in the neck pocket. It's pretty standard on a lot of strats and no cause for alarm. Then retighten the screws and make them snug. For tuning problems on a strat or most guitars for that matter, I have found the worst place is the saddles and the holes out of the block that the strings come through. Wang bar or not they bind there and should be maintained with regular sanding (say 500 grit paper) and in the case of one strat I own, I dremeled the holes the strings go through from the block. Also as others have suggested the nut should also be maintained with proper sanding. I used to take 500 grit sand paper and slightly widen the slots when I was younger and it worked great. I now have proper files but on occasion still find sandpaper is better depending on certain factors. I would just do it all myself and never ran into major problems and now with the advent of internet there is a ton of info. It's not that big a deal and you don't want to have to take your guitar to a tech everytime you have a minor problem. Hope this helps and good luck. Buster
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Post by hwyman on Jan 20, 2008 21:07:09 GMT -7
I could be way off base here, but what you described in reply #17 sounds more like an intonation problem (being off at certain frets) than a tuning problem. As far as pushing down hard and making the notes go sharp, I can do that on just about any guitar - fretting too hard will almost always make me "squeeze" a note sharp.
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Post by Hohn on Jan 21, 2008 18:49:33 GMT -7
Indeed. If you have really large frets, you can easily force a note way sharp by pushing past the point of fret contact to where your finger actually hits wood. I'd say you should do a whole scratch setup-- get the neck aligned, then set intonation and string height if you can. In this process, nut problems will surface (if any) for sure. Nut problems are typically a fret buzz near in the first few frets (cut too deep) or not returning to pitch after a bend or whammy (slot too small and grabbing string). The neck pocket on my Zion is so tight you can't fit a sheet of paper in the neck pocket gap. They don't have CNC machines, either
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