jonzi
New Member
Posts: 42
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Post by jonzi on Jan 12, 2008 16:02:08 GMT -7
I would like your opinions on these two amps. I'm sure more people here will favor Dr. Z, but I think they are both AMAZING amps. I am going to buy one of these soon. Almost bought a Z28 today, but I wanted to give myself more time...and I want to try a Fuchs Blackjack 21 head. Thanks for your input. Peace.
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Post by brad737 on Feb 22, 2008 17:12:16 GMT -7
Personally, I think Fuchs is a douchebag. I hang out on a couple of DIY amp forums. Fuchs sells the closest Dumble ripoff he can. Nik Azam over at Ceriatone sells one too. The esteemed Mr. Fuchs sells his version for about 5 times what Nik sells his for. So, Fuchs has participated in a huge online smear campaign just because people looking for that Dumble tone have an option that sounds good and is affordable. Totally sour grapes...
If nothing else, Dr. Z is a class act. And he builds amazing amps for a fair price. There's no comparison if you ask me.
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Post by DRZ on Feb 23, 2008 15:40:10 GMT -7
Hey now Brad let's be nice.
I know Andy and he's a nice guy and a very sharp Tech.
Some times ( I know I do ) we get a bit defensive when talking about our work. That doesn't make it right, I should let it roll off, but sometimes it's hard to do.
Being creative sometimes leads to a short fuse.
Z
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Feb 23, 2008 16:26:47 GMT -7
Doc, Absolutely nothing against Andy or his amps from me; BUT... Andy's got basically a line of Dumble, Trainwreck, and Marshall "inspired" amps (I didn't use the "C" word)...
The Dr. Z amp lineup is full of really original amps and circuits like the Carmen Ghia, Route 66, Z28, Delta 88, KT45, Prescription, Prescription ES, Prescription Jr, Mini Z, MAZ Jr and MAZ Sr, 6545....not to mention that the amps like the SRZ with really creative touches (ultralinear OT's)....
I think you're one of the most creative guys out there.
I won't go into the "short fuse" discussion ;D
Phil
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Feb 23, 2008 17:47:36 GMT -7
Well the Doc's message here demonstrates that connected to that short fuse is a very classy guy.
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Feb 23, 2008 17:48:23 GMT -7
Well the Doc's message here demonstrates that connected to that short fuse is a very classy guy. I'll second that.
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Post by (8^D) on Feb 23, 2008 18:57:41 GMT -7
Personality opinions aside, does anyone have any input on the physical products?
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Feb 23, 2008 20:23:55 GMT -7
Well, I have to admit I've played a few Fuchs, along with a couple of the similar two rock custom amps that are extremely expensive... I liked the Fuchs as much as the more expensive amps... I ran across one used Fuchs 50 watt head that was particularly sweet... so much mojo I contemplated buying it, but it's just not me. I'd rather have a Rt 66 for the big bottle sound... and in the end I just think I'm an El-84 kinda guy...
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Post by psj1026 (Pete) on Feb 24, 2008 5:55:46 GMT -7
I bought a Blackjack21 a few years back and it was pretty loud and did have a good sound. If I had stuck with it who knows but I remember thinking that the volume had a lot of crackling and while that may (or may not) have been normal for that amp the overdriven sounds just were not there for me and it turned me off to it. I brought it back and eventually got the Z. I still have the Mazjr. I also worked with pedals to get the overdrive sound I was looking for and they may have worked equally as well with the BJ21 but for the money I think you get a better amp with the Z. I have no regrets. BTW: I emailed Andy and he seemed very nice for what it is worth.
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Post by Bill on Feb 24, 2008 11:55:05 GMT -7
I'd like to own a Fuchs some day. Looks to me like he's built a nice business, and puts out a quality product. Since a Dumble is not available or affordable, I'm glad to see some amp builders going this route. Problem is, everytime I have the cash to buy one, I end up getting another Z.
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Post by tjstrat on Feb 24, 2008 12:25:27 GMT -7
I've owned a Lucky 7 and a Blackjack 21, and I don't think they're really representative of the full line; I'd love to try a Train just because that's a little more in the output area I like. Both the 7 and 21 lacked headroom (naturally, although the 21 has nowhere NEAR the headroom of a Ghia, my benchmark for loud as h3ll low wattage amps), and had a boxy tone I couldn't dial out. Not much jangle or sparkle. I WILL say that at one indoor gig with the 7 I had a GREAT time controlling volume and gain via my guitar knobs. But more of a lead or rock amp than a clean, open, general use amp. The Train sounds like a beast, though, and I doubt that barring a miracle I'll ever scrape up $3000.00 for an amp.
As far as builders with strong opinions... They all have 'em, which is why they do what they do. They don't compromise. I've had in the past some SAVAGE back and forth over politics in unmoderated forums with some well known tube brokers and amp builders, and believe me, they don't back down and aren't afraid to get REAL UGLY. So yeah, sometimes because of the personality type that you have to be to do this stuff well, you can gt a little snippy. I even expect the Doc feels a mite red a$$ed every so often about a comment here or there, but he's a classy guy with the best forum on the internet, and he understands we're all here to trade info and get along, not start flame wars. I wish I could say that about some of the guys I've gone around the block with.
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Post by myles on Feb 24, 2008 12:34:30 GMT -7
Personally, I think Fuchs is a douchebag. I hang out on a couple of DIY amp forums. Fuchs sells the closest Dumble ripoff he can. Nik Azam over at Ceriatone sells one too. The esteemed Mr. Fuchs sells his version for about 5 times what Nik sells his for. So, Fuchs has participated in a huge online smear campaign just because people looking for that Dumble tone have an option that sounds good and is affordable. Totally sour grapes... If nothing else, Dr. Z is a class act. And he builds amazing amps for a fair price. There's no comparison if you ask me. Maybe Fuchs started out with an amp or two that was compared by some folks to Dumble amps but they are not anywhere close to being the same type of amp in my eyes. Fuchs has designs that cover many of the same bases as some Dumble amp users have in their playing style but to me the Fuchs amps stand on their own merit and they offer a more broad pallette of switchable tones and uses. They are very nice amps and I do not see where they could be comapred to any of the Dr. Z lineup as they are very different amps. The Z-28 with it's pentode front end and the way it is implemented is a very different amp than the Fuchs model that is mentioned.
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Post by dnoseworth on Mar 1, 2008 6:07:41 GMT -7
Long and McQuade had a big inventory blow out a 2 weeks ago, and i spotted a Fuchs Black Jack in the store and gave the shall we say tires a kick. It was loud , but didn't seem to have that shimmer that a lot of the Zs Ive tried have, also Ive been spoiled with my early Komet, so i tend to base everything on it. That's what i love about the Zs there are similarities with the Komet but they have a distinct voice, also the Black Jack was not touch sensitive in the way the Zs Ive had tried are.
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Post by guitarboy02451 on Mar 16, 2008 7:32:52 GMT -7
I had tried a Ghia at Boston Guitar and fell in love with it, but didn't buy it. Went back a few months later... wanting something a little different. I actually was looking at the BJ21 with a serious amount of cash in my pocket and was ready to buy.
Heath at Boston Guitar let me crank away. (Heath's a great guy by the way...). Anyway, I still had the tones of the Ghia in my head... and the BJ21 seemed to just lack a little something. I can't tell you what it was. Don't get me wrong, the BJ21 sounded incredible, but there was some personality missing...
I walked away with the words of Myles Rose in my head... "It's nice, but it ain't no Ghia!". Then and there, I ordered the Carmen Ghia on the spot.
I think it's a very sweet amp and very compatible to the CG... But in my opinion, I think the CG has a tad bit more personality and life to it. I'm not saying that cause I'm partial to the Doc, but with all sincerity that I was ready to buy the BJ21 and didn't.
Now, if your talking about the Overdrive Supreme... That's probably a whole other bowl of wax. Probably more up there with Two Rock, Div/13 etc... Built as an amp to give that Carlton/Ford Dumble tone.
But likewise as you move up the chain of Z amps, such as the Galaxie and Mazariti GT, I'm sure in a shootout they'd eat my little Ghia for breakfast. But I think my CG would give them one heck of a run!
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Post by detuned on Mar 19, 2008 10:12:39 GMT -7
I dunno, Andy Fuchs looks tough, but the Doc's a scrapper...
:-)
Oh, the amps. Duh!
I've got nothing but love for Fuchs products. If that kind of flavor is what you're looking for, I don't think you'd be disappointed with a Fuchs.
Having said that, I prefer the Doc's stuff.
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Post by rogerbiggerstaff on Mar 19, 2008 13:19:50 GMT -7
I've owned a Lucky 7 and a Blackjack 21, and I don't think they're really representative of the full line; I'd love to try a Train just because that's a little more in the output area I like. Both the 7 and 21 lacked headroom (naturally, although the 21 has nowhere NEAR the headroom of a Ghia, my benchmark for loud as h3ll low wattage amps), and had a boxy tone I couldn't dial out. Not much jangle or sparkle. I WILL say that at one indoor gig with the 7 I had a GREAT time controlling volume and gain via my guitar knobs. But more of a lead or rock amp than a clean, open, general use amp. The Train sounds like a beast, though, and I doubt that barring a miracle I'll ever scrape up $3000.00 for an amp. The Train lists for under $2k. It's the ODS and TDS that are in the price range you mentioned.
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Post by billyguitar on Mar 19, 2008 14:20:17 GMT -7
I think if this is the kind of amp someone wants then Zs ain't yo thang.
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Post by mrdownchild on Mar 19, 2008 14:31:18 GMT -7
I really wanted to like Fuchs amps. I went to a shop that has several friends working there. They let me have free reign of the place for a couple of hours after they closed up. We worked over a Lucky & and a Blackjack 21 for the longest time. I rememeber being impressed initially when both amps were "fired up." However, there is a depth to Z amps that seems to be lacking in the Fuchs line. As the time passed, I grew weary of the sound coming from the amp. The tone of the Fuchs was "flat" for lack of a better word. Now that I've had the 38 for quite some time, and have it running in tip-top shape. I say there is no better amp on the market. The long and short of it is this:
If you can't get "it" done with a Z.....then "it" can't be done.
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Post by tjstrat on Mar 19, 2008 15:07:20 GMT -7
I've owned a Lucky 7 and a Blackjack 21, and I don't think they're really representative of the full line; I'd love to try a Train just because that's a little more in the output area I like. Both the 7 and 21 lacked headroom (naturally, although the 21 has nowhere NEAR the headroom of a Ghia, my benchmark for loud as h3ll low wattage amps), and had a boxy tone I couldn't dial out. Not much jangle or sparkle. I WILL say that at one indoor gig with the 7 I had a GREAT time controlling volume and gain via my guitar knobs. But more of a lead or rock amp than a clean, open, general use amp. The Train sounds like a beast, though, and I doubt that barring a miracle I'll ever scrape up $3000.00 for an amp. The Train lists for under $2k. It's the ODS and TDS that are in the price range you mentioned. Yeah, The Train is a manageable price (at least used), but the $3000.00 + ODSs are what I consider most representative of his stuff, and no way the wife would let me go that way. Now if my late grandma's farm sells and that $350K comes in, we'll see...
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Post by cisspcism on Apr 9, 2008 11:43:07 GMT -7
If you can't get "it" done with a Z.....then "it" can't be done. I disagree, I love Dr Z amps, but the Z amps aint no Bogner Ecstacy. With the ecstacy, I can get closer to the z sounds then trying to get the Z to sound like a bogner
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Post by dixiechicken on Apr 9, 2008 13:14:39 GMT -7
DC here! Since I haven't owned a whole lot amps compared to some folks here - I wont mention a certain infamous list. ;D I'll settle for a little different approach - Even if Doc seem to have ideas and tone inspired by many classical amps - who haven't - one thing that atraccted me as a tech geek (not the worst kind hopefully ) to Doc's creations - was his willingness to do something different. The Z-28, Route66, KT45 are great examples of this - they are about as simple as an amp can get. Five tubes, volume treble and bass. This is to me very appealing - to take a seemingly simple layout and/or idea. Implement with sophistication balance every aspect you can think of and come out with these great amps. I fully expect my Route66 to outlive me with margin to spare. ;D At least if stock up on a couple of NOS tubes. Cheers: Dixiechicken!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2008 10:18:16 GMT -7
I've been on a 27 year journey to find that special tone for me. Although I have not had too much experience with high end botique amps as I've never justified spending more than $1,200 (comparison of todays prices) on an amp. Some of the amps I've used that have been my favorite are:
Fender Twin Black face Fender super reverb Gibson L9 lab series Music Man 115 Mesa Boogie Lonestar Special Various older Fender Twin Reverbs Fender Twin 65 Reissue
Some crap I played:
My first guitar amp ever a solid state Gibson Can't remember the model Peavey Classic Chorus, Renown and bandit. The Classic chorus actually sounded pretty good but was very unreliable. Fender Twin red knob 2X12 Crate combo
All above amps were played 90% with a tele and 10% strat.
When I happenned on the Dr Z amps I became truly excited about finding the tone I had always longed for. I've played a few months with my Maz 38 and have not yet been dissapointed. Other than I am tempted to play this a little too loud for the rest of the bands liking. Which is why I'll most likely pick up an Airbrake. I am now waiting for the delivery of my Stangray which I have bought with out ever hearing or playing through. Of all the amps that I could have chosen for my second Dr Z amp it came down to either the stangray or Rx ES. Judged on my research it seems the stangray is the amp for me. I'm sure that there are other botique amps that could do what I need but of the ones I've research are much more expensive than the Dr Z. I've found a good thing and will be playing with the letter Z behind me on stage for most likely the rest of my playing life.
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Post by sudsysul on May 1, 2008 7:37:51 GMT -7
I bought a Fuchs ODS50 and a Z28 head within weeks of each other. As much as I fooled around with all those knobs I just couldn't come to terms with the ODS. I still have the Z28. I remember chuckling to myself at the time about the irony of so few knobs sounding so good.
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Post by hdahs143 on May 5, 2008 21:08:09 GMT -7
The Fuchs ODS series are really the the Flagships of his line. They really have a nice singing quality to them. Go to Indoor Storms website and listen to Eddie Berman playing though one, and you'll get the idea.
And for what its worth, I love the Z28 and what it does, but it and the ODS 50 are nowhere near being comparable amps. Completely different beasts.
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Post by detuned on May 28, 2008 6:20:59 GMT -7
Hey, that's what the internets are all about though, right? Comparing apples to oranges & pretending they're both bananas?
If that made any sense to you, you need help! :-P Goofy mood today...
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Post by jwr on May 28, 2008 12:12:03 GMT -7
I wanted to like the ODS amps as well, but it just didn't work for me. It sounded lifeless with me playing through it. It's rare that I have that experience with a good amp but it just didn't come to life in my hands. I get a much better tone out of a Brown Note ODE 44 or my Bogner Shiva when I need a channel switcher.
But I've heard other people sound great playing a Fuch's. Ya just gotta try everything once I guess.
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Post by awesome on Jun 19, 2008 15:36:19 GMT -7
the ODS amps are geared towards high gain sounds right?
the only high gain amps i have ever liked was the original Egnater TOL 100 and Diezels. and the JCM 800, but i have always thought the JCM 800 needed some improvement. (had a bad experience with a SRZ-65, i believe it was the tubes.)
as far as sparkle and character the only new amp company that comes close to Z's is Divided by 13.
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Post by real oldster on Jul 1, 2008 22:59:33 GMT -7
I know a fellow with a Bogner Ecstasy and I've heard him play it several times. It has never produced a good tone. Part of the blame may rest with the excessive rack gear he uses. It's a shame. All that investment.
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Post by jwr on Jul 2, 2008 9:26:14 GMT -7
I know a fellow with a Bogner Ecstasy and I've heard him play it several times. It has never produced a good tone. Part of the blame may rest with the excessive rack gear he uses. It's a shame. All that investment. Blame the user, not the gear Channel switcher's are not the enemy or a lesser amp design when done well. The Bogner XTC is a great amp when used correctly, which is not hard to do contraray to popular belief. And don't get me started on guys not knowing the right way to use rack gear What's gain structure? ;D ;D ;D
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Post by stuey222 on Jul 2, 2008 10:19:21 GMT -7
For me, Z wins because of the price. Much cheaper than Fuchs, Matchless, etc. and they're all the same type of amps (handwired, PTP, boutique, etc.) A Z sounds good to me, so that's what I'm going with at the moment. I don't really think any of these amps are any better than the others, but different flavors. There's plenty of pros that sound really good with different amps, and some are production model Marshall or Fenders from today for pete's sake! So it's more in the player than the amp, but having a good amplifies the good player even more.
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