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Post by skydog958 on May 6, 2006 16:33:21 GMT -7
Hi. I use (and love) a Dr. Z KT-45, and I thought it would be the only amp I will ever need. Unfortunately, this is not the case. I recently joined a modern rock band, and therefore my Z (and my pedals) don't quite mesh in the sound. My equiptment is too "vintage" flavored, which I personally love, but not what the band likes. I considered pedals, but frankly, I would be safe to say getting an amp designed for such tones would be more prudent, albeit costly. This is where things get ironic/silly....the other guitarist uses a Marshall MG100 (thats right, a $500 solid state Marshall), and he likes that distortion sound. Essentially that's the sound he wants from me. But I am a tube guy, and I really don't like the thin harsh sound of SS amp distortion, nor do I want to handle anything by the "big three" amp makers (Fender, Marshall, Mesa/Boogie) because I amp spoiled by the quality of my Z. So my thoughts are.....Marshall distorion? Go for a Plexi style amp, but with some extra gain on the far end to do the modern rock thing. But I only need about 40-50 watts (I can't even push my Z beyond 11 o'clock at gigs), perhaps with a master volume, and I don't want to spend $2000 for it. I really like Jim Wigle's Purplexing amps, because it has both a real Plexi circuit and a higher gain circuit, but they are pretty pricey and are 100 watts. Maybe if he can custom make a smaller one for less $$.. The other option I know of is Fargen amps. They make a 40 watt Plexi clone (the Mighty-Plex), but it is more limitted that a Perplexing. Perhaps I could order a custom shop version with more gain on tap, maybe bigger output tubes? So, to recapitulate, I am looking for a medium-ish Marshall flavored boutique quality amp that can do Plexi tones up to modern rock distortion that won't force me to sell my soul (or, heaven forbid, my Z! ). Anybody have suggestions? Frankly, if it wasn't for my new band, I would be solely a Z man for life! Peace out and Rock on
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Post by benttop (Steve) on May 6, 2006 16:48:06 GMT -7
Get a 6545 and blow that other guy's setup out the window... Here's a clip of mine with gain at 3 o'clock - LOTS more gain available: www.gear.strayca.com/audio/6545/MoneyForNothing.mp3There are probably a lot of other amps with more gain out there, but one thing about that SS distortion your buddy is getting is that it never seems to reach the ears of the listener - it is typically buried in the mix.
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Post by prowler on May 6, 2006 18:34:30 GMT -7
A 6545 should fit the bill just fine. The only reason I sold my 6545 was to buy my SRZ-65 which I had been wanting for a very long time.
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Post by GuitarZ on May 6, 2006 18:47:33 GMT -7
Ummm. You might want to find another band. I don't think that the music or the sound is the issue. It sounds like you've got a very narrow minded fellow guitarist. Life's too short.
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Post by billyguitar on May 6, 2006 19:10:48 GMT -7
In the olden days when two guitarists were in the same band they tried to use different guitars. Wishbone Ash with one guy on a Strat and the other on a Flying V. The original Fleetwood Mac where Peter used a humbucking Les Paul and Danny used one with P-90s. It spreads the sound around and makes the individual guitar parts stand out more. (I sure wish Danny Kirwan was still active. One of my very favorite voices on guitar.)
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2006 19:13:54 GMT -7
HI Skydog958, I think a pedal would totally give you what you need. Check out Diamond Pedal's Fireburst for some serious gain. The KT-45 plus the Fireburst would destroy the Marshall. I don't see how the other guitarist could think that combination sounds 'vintage'. I tried out that pedal recently and it is a monster. Here is a link. www.diamondpedals.com/products/fireburst.htmlSound clips(scroll down for fireburst) www.diamondpedals.com/samples/samples_list.phpHope this helps. Hope this helps you to not sell the KT-45! All the Fireburst clips use the the Dr. Z Carmen Ghia and it sounds huge. Imagine how it would sound through the KT-45.....I think I am a little scared!
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Post by taswegian on May 6, 2006 22:45:42 GMT -7
I agree with Aruntang on this one. You just need to get a smoking high gain modern sounding pedal as your "base" is already a tone machine. I have pulled some awesome "modern rock" sounds with the 66 and the 45, being even cleaner, should work great. Spend a couple hundred on pedals, not 2000 on a new amp you won't need. Heck, I've even tried a Boss Heavy Metal pedal in my 66 and it didn't sound too bad! Maybe the other guy is just worried you are going to BURY him in the mix! Probably not. I've had this conversation with alot of the younger guys playing. They often listen to heavy guitar sounds at bedroom levels or just on their own and think "yeah" but they don't translate live. Even alot of the "heavier modern rock bands" don't use as much scooped gain as it appears. The Marshall SS amps just become "white noise" at volumes with drums and bass and heaven forbid keyboards, it would be totally lost. I also played in a modern rock band in the 90's with a 2nd guitarist who used a Marshall valvestate, which sounded great when he did intro's by himself, but then was lost when everyone else came in. I'm sure with the right pedal, (try the one Aruntang suggested) you can pull a heavy modern sound that they will be more than happy with...you might even teach the other guy a bit about tone.
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Post by zane on May 7, 2006 3:04:54 GMT -7
In the olden days when two guitarists were in the same band they tried to use different guitars. Wishbone Ash with one guy on a Strat and the other on a Flying V. The original Fleetwood Mac where Peter used a humbucking Les Paul and Danny used one with P-90s. It spreads the sound around and makes the individual guitar parts stand out more. (I sure wish Danny Kirwan was still active. One of my very favorite voices on guitar.) Not to get too far off subject ...but... been listening to "Kiln House" this past week ...great CD ;^)
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Post by John on May 7, 2006 3:56:45 GMT -7
Taz, I know what you mean about some of these guys that use bedroom level sounds at gigs. A good friend of mine is the singer for a rock band, and his guitar player uses a Johnson amp...a programable modeling amp. He's programed it at bedroom level sounds, and when he plays a gig, it's HORRIBLE. It's really white noise. I've told the singer about it, and he is aware, but he can't get the guy to change. All you hear is bass, drums, and a very upper midrange crappy sound. He probably thinks he's a great guitar player...I see his hands wizzing all over the fretboard, but who knows? He could be playing crap. He could have horrible technique. You just don't know. I was even approached as a possible replacement, but they're slowly working things out with him.
Sorry, didn't mean to steal the thread...
Don't get a new amp (Especially if you like your KT-45) Get some pedals, or get a new band. How is some punk-arse with an MG-100 going to know anything about 'vintage tone' anyway? It might even help to purchase a crappy distortion pedal. Take your Z to a Sam Ash or Guitar Center, and try out a bunch of cheap distortion pedals. They might even have an MG-100 to compare it to. That should get you in the ball park.
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Post by taswegian on May 7, 2006 6:09:18 GMT -7
Just to add some humility here... When I first started playing I loved that solo Sykes does in "Is this Love?" Whitesnake To achieve it in the bedroom plugged into my little Peavey I used a Boss Heavy Metal AND a Boss Compressor Sustain-2. Sounded great in the bedroom. I auditioned for the biggest band in town and got the job. (probably as much to do with the fact I could sing harmonies as my guitar playing!) Our first few rehearsals I used my HM and CS-2 pedal into a vintage Marshall Plexi and vintage straight face quad!!!!!! It squealled like a pig and sounded awful but I thought it sounded "heavy". My guitar teacher gave me some help and I went to see some of the more "toneful" players play and got a better idea of what worked live. Angus Young has hardly any gain at all...not that they have a modern sound but most people put them in the "Hard Rock" category. Years later when I was a better player I would program my rack at home at low volumes and have a great greasy wet "Luke" or Landau sound. Turn up to play live and it would just be a mess. Moral of the story is...I know where this guy is coming from and my suggestion is keep the KT45 and use a great distortion/overdrive pedal. Heck for 15 bucks you could try the Danelectro PeachPhan endorsed Fab Distortion! ;D
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Post by billyguitar on May 7, 2006 7:35:42 GMT -7
Zane: Kiln House is such a great and forgotten album. Station Man is a classic. They could have left Blood On The Floor out, I wouldn't miss it a bit. Danny's playing on that record is as tastey as it gets and the songs are all great. Sorry to go off thread, guys..............
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Post by skydog958 on May 7, 2006 10:00:36 GMT -7
Billyguitar, karma for you for actually knowing there was a Fleetwood Mac before Rumors and all that soft rock junk (lol). Peter Green is one of my favorite guitarists, perhaps one of the few guys who could ever replace Clapton. Kirwan is good too, but I don't like the songs he wrote--I'm much a bigger fan of Green's songs (Oh Well, Rattlesnake Shake, Coming Your Way, The Super-Natural, etc.), but their rambling jams were awesome too. I just wish my amp had spring reverb so I could get Green's patented minor blues sound. He had such great tone and feel.
Thanks for your input guys, although some of you guys are pretty harsh :-P. Forgive my friend/bandmate, he's practically a newbie (and you know how we young'uns can be content with crummy gear, we've all been guilty). His whole rig, including guitars, probably costs less than my amp alone. Maybe I could get the other bandmates to chip in to get him a tube amp...
For the moment I'll look for a pedal (the Fireburst sounds pretty sweet), and perhaps when funds are better I'll get an SRZ-65 (if I can find one) w/ maybe a Z 4x10 to handle the gainier sounds. I'm never going to part with my KT-45 either way, because not only do I love the tone, mine's a pretty rare 2x12 combo version.
Imagine that rig--a blonde KT-45 2x12 combo sitting next to an SRZ-65 sitting on a Z 4x10 cab. Smokin'!
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Post by billyguitar on May 7, 2006 10:27:17 GMT -7
Skydog: On Then Play On, Coming Your Way was written and sung by Danny. He also did Although The Sun Is Shining and Like Crying on that album. He was such a good protege to Peter that you almost can't tell who is playing what sometimes. I saw a live video once of Oh Well and Danny was doing a lot of parts that I thought was Peter. I saw them touring Oh Well in late 1970 or early 1971. Incredible show. Silverface Twins with JBLs on top of Dual Showman Bottoms. There was actually two shows that night, a 6:00 and a 9:00. It was a weeknight so we went to the 6:00. Also on that show was the original Jethro Tull with Mick Abrams on guitar and Joe C-o-c-k-e-r. Tull was also great. The way Abrams plays Cat's Squirrel was even better than Cream's. Listen to This Was and you'll hear it. That concert was probably a $4.50 show. Those were the days! As you know, Peter Green wasn't on Kiln House. he had quit the band by then.
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Post by skydog958 on May 7, 2006 11:42:25 GMT -7
Man, I wish I was alive to see them....I missed it by about *checks calendar* 30 years lol. Could I get a copy of that video of "Oh Well"?
Some of my favorite Green tracks are actually not with Fleetwood Mac. Look up "If You Let Me Love You," (that's Green leading the Brunning Sunflower Blues Band, off of the accomplilation Jumping at Shadows: the Blues Years), "Greeny," and "Alabama Blues," (both outtakes from A Hard Road. They're on the expanded verison, disc 2).
But "Sandy Mary" is a goodie too.
I know I am going off track on my own thread, but whatever...
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Post by billyguitar on May 7, 2006 13:39:42 GMT -7
I don't know where that video came from, I'd like to see it again myself. The live Jumpin' At Shadows is one of the best British Blues tracks ever! It's really a shame that later on they kept using the name Fleetwood Mac. Especially with Stevie Nicks etc., not at all the same thing.
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Post by prowler on May 7, 2006 14:07:17 GMT -7
tasweigan... I agree with you 1000% Spend a few hundred on some pedals and keep the Kt45 indeed!
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Post by real oldster on May 7, 2006 23:42:09 GMT -7
You didn't explain why you'd want to play with these guys and I can't figure it out. Get a crappy pedal for that crappy sound and you can toss it when you toss the band...
Re: Early Tull and Fleetwood: The concert scene late 60s to early 70s was incredible. The bands, the bills, the venues, the aromas... Why is there no icon for <sigh> ?
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Post by skydog958 on May 8, 2006 13:07:37 GMT -7
Karma for you, Corey, for a bit of sympathy lol.
Yeah the "otha guy" is a friend of mine, who happened to be the drummer in my last band (he's quite good on the ol' noisemaker). I purposefully try to appease him at times because else he may feel that I'm taking over his creative project (i.e. turning his band into our old band). Right now it's just for fun playing w/ friends, but I try not to be intrusive being the newest member and all. So it's not a big deal.
I would be just as picky (most likely more so) if I was leading my own band. But since to me my new one is just for fun, I am willing to be flexible. Besides, now I can rationalize my G.A.S. lol.
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Post by taswegian on May 8, 2006 17:32:16 GMT -7
I am a huge modern rock fan...Hell, any rock... I just know you could get exactly what you need from your KT45 and pedals. Even Dave Grohl has a Z hidden away! Good luck with the band, I'm sure it will be fun.
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Post by skydog958 on May 8, 2006 18:29:34 GMT -7
Really? What model does Grohl uses? the Foo Fighters are one of the biggest influences of the band. It might help to convince my friend to get a Z! lol
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Post by taswegian on May 9, 2006 0:11:41 GMT -7
If I remember right it was a Maz 38. I love the Foo's. Have all the albums. I'm telling ya you can pull a Foo Fighter sound with the right pedal and KT45 big time! Sorry to be a Monkey Wrench ;D
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Post by myles on May 17, 2006 12:39:04 GMT -7
Hi. I use (and love) a Dr. Z KT-45, and I thought it would be the only amp I will ever need. Unfortunately, this is not the case. I recently joined a modern rock band, and therefore my Z (and my pedals) don't quite mesh in the sound. My equiptment is too "vintage" flavored, which I personally love, but not what the band likes. I considered pedals, but frankly, I would be safe to say getting an amp designed for such tones would be more prudent, albeit costly. This is where things get ironic/silly....the other guitarist uses a Marshall MG100 (thats right, a $500 solid state Marshall), and he likes that distortion sound. Essentially that's the sound he wants from me. But I am a tube guy, and I really don't like the thin harsh sound of SS amp distortion, nor do I want to handle anything by the "big three" amp makers (Fender, Marshall, Mesa/Boogie) because I amp spoiled by the quality of my Z. So my thoughts are.....Marshall distorion? Go for a Plexi style amp, but with some extra gain on the far end to do the modern rock thing. But I only need about 40-50 watts (I can't even push my Z beyond 11 o'clock at gigs), perhaps with a master volume, and I don't want to spend $2000 for it. I really like Jim Wigle's Purplexing amps, because it has both a real Plexi circuit and a higher gain circuit, but they are pretty pricey and are 100 watts. Maybe if he can custom make a smaller one for less $$.. The other option I know of is Fargen amps. They make a 40 watt Plexi clone (the Mighty-Plex), but it is more limitted that a Perplexing. Perhaps I could order a custom shop version with more gain on tap, maybe bigger output tubes? So, to recapitulate, I am looking for a medium-ish Marshall flavored boutique quality amp that can do Plexi tones up to modern rock distortion that won't force me to sell my soul (or, heaven forbid, my Z! ). Anybody have suggestions? Frankly, if it wasn't for my new band, I would be solely a Z man for life! Peace out and Rock on Ben Fargen showed his new JCM800 amp at the amp show. Lots of folks loved it. But .... when Carl Verheyen needed to replace his Marshalls, after we considered and looked at dozens of amps he went with the SRZ-65.
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Post by skydog958 on May 20, 2006 21:03:51 GMT -7
Yeah, too bad the 65 is hard to find. I hope Z brings them back....
I recorded with the band today, and everything went smoothly. My Z is currently getting debugged, but there were plenty of amps at the studio for the recording. My friend used a JCM 800 and a home-made Plexi clone for the rhythm parts, and I used a JTM 60 for the lead. It came out well and sounded good, but I'll definitely use the Z when I get it back.
I got a pedal to do my "dirty" work, a MI Audio Crunch Box. I demo'd it to my friend through my older amp (Fender Hot Rod Deville 410) and he approved.
But for good measure I also got a Mini Z :-). Except I think mine is one of the ones with quality control issues, because there was definitely something wrong with it when I fired it up (buzzy/farty sound from the 6th string, 1st and 2nd strings were muted and choked). It sounds as if maybe the speaker is blown, or theres an issue with the internals.
Down the road, if I can't find a SRZ-65, I may get one of the Fargen amps. But for a while I'm set.
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Post by billyguitar on May 21, 2006 13:39:16 GMT -7
6545 is available. Kt-45 & SRZ65 in one box.
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