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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 9:26:18 GMT -7
Posting this in the effects section, since the Tonemasters are basically just powered DSP effects units--kind of a crippled Kemper powered toaster with a speaker installed. I had a bunch of points and return credits on Amazon, so I went ahead and pulled the trigger after watching a bunch of videos and being impressed by a few things: first, if the videos are any indication, they sound really good. They nail the Deluxe thing, as far as I can tell. Also, they're super light--only 22 lbs, supposedly, which is about half the weight of a regular Deluxe. And they've got built-in power scaling, which obviously comes in very handy for practice, smaller gigs, and so on. Finally, the reverb and tremolo effects both sound great--it can surf, it can swamp, sounds just like a the classic Fender circuits. It's out for delivery today--will report back once I've had some time with it.
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Post by doctorice on Sept 18, 2019 10:12:45 GMT -7
Sounds interesting, Jon. I'm sure you'll be posting a review after you've given it a thorough workout. I assume that will include a comparison with your Z-Lux. Looking forward to it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 11:15:34 GMT -7
Sounds interesting, Jon. I'm sure you'll be posting a review after you've given it a thorough workout. I assume that will include a comparison with your Z-Lux. Looking forward to it. Ha! Yeah--I'm not expecting it to be in the same zip code as the Lux, but if it's somewhere between that and my little Boss Katana 50 I think I'll be reasonably happy.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 14:35:08 GMT -7
Well, all righty then! It's a Deluxe! I'm actually not kidding--this thing sounds bang-on like a Deluxe to my ear, good, bad and ugly. But mostly good--it's got the same Fender crunch when cranked, the same super sproingy reverb, the same juicy tremolo. Opens up just like a Deluxe when you get that volume up above 5. It's also very light, as advertised. Nice cleans with a Strat. Nice crunch, as noted. Takes pedals well. Controls work identical to a Deluxe, also as advertised. On the downside, it's got that slightly boxy thing at lower volumes, also just like a Deluxe, but that might diminish as the speaker breaks in, plus you'd never notice it in a band setting. Also on the downside--some of the stuff that isn't a Deluxe: mostly the built in attenuation isn't great--it gets sqiushier and rattier as you scale it back from 22 "watts" to .2, which is the lowest setting. The first click, down to 10 watts, is okay, but after that there's a pretty huge tone loss the lower you go. Fender should consult with the guys at Boss, maybe, who've got the whole power scaling thing totally nailed. I did get to A/B it briefly with the Z-Lux, and while there are obviously tonal similarities, the Lux is much more harmonically rich and way more alive, if that makes sense--also the cab is clearly more resonant, and never boxy even at low volumes. I haven't tried any of the direct out features on the Tonemaster--they may be great, I couldn't say. Overall, I think the Tonemaster will make a very good, lightweight backup amp, and/or an excellent grab-n-go for jams, quickie one-setters, skungey bars you wouldn't want to take your Zs to, and so on. It has some promise for recording, too, and might be useful if you're doing the silent stage thing and don't want the expense and fiddly-ness of a Kemper. Bottom line: If I was doing a festival show and found one of these in the backline, I wouldn't hesitate to plug in and let her rip--that said, I'm not sure I'll keep it. I may hit the return button and get a QSC Touchmix 8 instead, as I already have an excellent grab n go in the Cure.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 15:01:12 GMT -7
It's growing on me. Great with pedals. Next bar gig, this thing might be just the ticket.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 16:24:51 GMT -7
Two clicks on the attenuator still sounds decent. Kind of digging this weird-arse thing.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 16:42:48 GMT -7
Very surprised at how good this critter is with pedals. Wasn't expecting that.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 16:46:02 GMT -7
How cool would it be if Doc could load all the Kemper profiles, say, into a grab n go modeling amp similar to the Tonemaster? Put a rotary switch on it like the DB4 and you could have a Maz 38, a Stangray, a Wreck, and a Z-Lux all in one package. Stick a lightweight neo speaker in it and maybe on-board reverb? Hells yes, I'm thinking. The future is now, I'm thinking.
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Post by Maddog on Sept 19, 2019 5:26:14 GMT -7
I have a funny feeling the next generation of guitarists will see the last of the vacuum tubes....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2019 7:21:10 GMT -7
I have a funny feeling the next generation of guitarists will see the last of the vacuum tubes.... Reinhold Bogner's been talking about this for years--as the supply of good quality tubes continues to dwindle, eventually there won't be any choice but to go to solid state/modeling. I think it's inevitable, and now that you can pack a crapload of processing power into a tiny box, the technical obstacles have pretty much been overcome. The Tonemaster thing is designed, I think, to get tube amp users comfortable with DSP/modeling tech by packing it into a very familiar, analog-looking format (worked for me!). I get the criticism that, for what it does, the Tonemaster is actually pretty wildly overpriced--just one amp model with only two effects in a nothing-special cab and a meh speaker for not much less than the cost of the "real" thing? Seems crazy, in a way. But--I'd be willing to bet that we'll be seeing more like this in the very near future. With any luck they'll be a lot more feature rich, mating Kemper-like capability with a grab-n-go format and analog ease of use. That would be awesome.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2019 8:21:21 GMT -7
Just spent a few minutes running it with a Strat and the HX Effects box, down about 3 clicks on the attenuator. Consider my earlier criticism of that attenuation thing withdrawn--it sounds GREAT, and the only analog part of the signal chain is the guitar. Color me impressed. It wouldn't replace a great tube amp like the Lux by any means, but as a throw-it-in-the-trunk addition to your existing stable of amps it looks more and more like a no-brainer to me. I think if Fender did one of these in a 12" Princeton format they'd sell a million of them.
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Post by doctorice on Sept 20, 2019 10:43:40 GMT -7
Jon, do you have thoughts on why your view on the attenuation changed? Things like Fletcher-Munson effect, difference in perception when scaling back rather than starting low, etc.
Thanks.
Added: I wonder about shelling out another $100 for the Twin. There's something about 2 x12 that I really like, and if it's just 33 lbs as advertised and the attenuation is decent....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2019 11:12:38 GMT -7
Jon, do you have thoughts on why your view on the attenuation changed? Things like Fletcher-Munson effect, difference in perception when scaling back rather than starting low, etc.
Thanks.
Added: I wonder about shelling out another $100 for the Twin. There's something about 2 x12 that I really like, and if it's just 33 lbs as advertised and the attenuation is decent....
Hi Mike--re the attenuation, when I first tried it I wanted to see what it would do at the very lowest settings with the volume knob cranked. It wasn't great. Then I started experimenting with running a dirt pedal into the front, and keeping the volume knob at just the level where the amp starts to open up and break up a bit--about 5 or 6--along with a soft-clipping OD pedal at moderate settings. It sounded GREAT, and the attenuator worked much better in those conditions. It still sounds bad at the lowest settings, but the first three clicks are all useable. I thought about the Twin, too, but the added weight and bulk were the deciding factors for me, plus I've always found Twins pretty ice-picky at anything like gigging volume--there's just something about the quality of the highs that's practically migraine-inducing for me. A good Deluxe lives more in the upper mids, at least if you know how to set the knobs (local guitar dude who plays a silverface Deluxe take note--your tone makes my teeth hurt). As I say, if they made a 1x12 Princeton version, I'd happily go for that.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2019 11:13:34 GMT -7
Also, I find myself wishing for a dwell control on the reverb--it's a skosh over the top except at the lowest settings.
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Post by lowbudget on Sept 23, 2019 7:21:51 GMT -7
Hey Jon, just wondering how far they took the *exact* tonality of the Deluxe Reverb with this thing. Did they model in the low end flub pretty much inherent in the originals?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2019 13:16:49 GMT -7
Hey Jon, just wondering how far they took the *exact* tonality of the Deluxe Reverb with this thing. Did they model in the low end flub pretty much inherent in the originals? Ha! Not that I've noticed--maybe if I crank it, though. I'd say overall it breaks up sooner and stays tighter longer in the low end than a "real" Deluxe, which is a plus, for me. Played it at practice last night and it was awesome. I might gig it on Saturday at our little semi-acoustic show--we'll see.
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Post by Faze on Sept 30, 2019 16:39:09 GMT -7
Flea Have you downloaded any of the Sneaky amps to your Katana? They have a pretty decent Deluxe setting its called Deluxe crunch. You can dial it in once you download it to clean it up or make it louder or whatever you want. I played the tone master today. They also have a awesome tweed amp in there as well. It sounds like a deluxe for sure both channels sounded great to me. Congrats.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2019 6:40:45 GMT -7
Flea Have you downloaded any of the Sneaky amps to your Katana? They have a pretty decent Deluxe setting its called Deluxe crunch. You can dial it in once you download it to clean it up or make it louder or whatever you want. I played the tone master today. They also have a awesome tweed amp in there as well. It sounds like a deluxe for sure both channels sounded great to me. Congrats. What are the Sneaky amps, Randy?
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Post by Faze on Oct 1, 2019 8:28:31 GMT -7
Flea Have you downloaded any of the Sneaky amps to your Katana? They have a pretty decent Deluxe setting its called Deluxe crunch. You can dial it in once you download it to clean it up or make it louder or whatever you want. I played the tone master today. They also have a awesome tweed amp in there as well. It sounds like a deluxe for sure both channels sounded great to me. Congrats. What are the Sneaky amps, Randy? They are a bunch of really awesome Fender and also other amp patches you can download into the Boss Katana Via the Boss tone Control Studio app. You can tweak them to your individual taste and liking and then save them to the Katana. Here is the link.... www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=20630.0
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Post by Buzz Fretwear (Ignatius) on Dec 27, 2019 15:22:28 GMT -7
Posting this in the effects section, since the Tonemasters are basically just powered DSP effects units--kind of a crippled Kemper powered toaster with a speaker installed. I had a bunch of points and return credits on Amazon, so I went ahead and pulled the trigger after watching a bunch of videos and being impressed by a few things: first, if the videos are any indication, they sound really good. They nail the Deluxe thing, as far as I can tell. Also, they're super light--only 22 lbs, supposedly, which is about half the weight of a regular Deluxe. And they've got built-in power scaling, which obviously comes in very handy for practice, smaller gigs, and so on. Finally, the reverb and tremolo effects both sound great--it can surf, it can swamp, sounds just like a the classic Fender circuits. It's out for delivery today--will report back once I've had some time with it. I picked one of these up recently, and I'm very, very impressed with it. I've owned a DRRI and I currently own a 68 Custom Vibrolux. There is nothing - nothing - lacking in the Tone Master as compared to either of those amps. I think any differences between the Tone Master and a tube amp are no greater than the potential differences between any two tube amps. I think Fender really nailed it. The DI out makes it incredibly useful for so many gigging situations these days. The amp not only sounds great to me, but it feels great as well. I'm not here to say that it's superior or even equal to a well built tube amp like a Z. But I have no problem saying that it's a very useful and practical tool, a darn good sounding amp, and a great pedal platform too. All that said, I need to add a statement here that I've made on many other posts. One day, I *need* to own a Ghia. I have owned and loved a Mazerati, Maz Jr, Maz Sr, Stang Ray, and Z28. Before I hang up the spikes I've gotta try a Ghia. And then the Jetta came out and that has caught my attention too. And THEN I heard about the Z-Wreck Jr and THAT has really turned my head.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 15:55:38 GMT -7
Posting this in the effects section, since the Tonemasters are basically just powered DSP effects units--kind of a crippled Kemper powered toaster with a speaker installed. I had a bunch of points and return credits on Amazon, so I went ahead and pulled the trigger after watching a bunch of videos and being impressed by a few things: first, if the videos are any indication, they sound really good. They nail the Deluxe thing, as far as I can tell. Also, they're super light--only 22 lbs, supposedly, which is about half the weight of a regular Deluxe. And they've got built-in power scaling, which obviously comes in very handy for practice, smaller gigs, and so on. Finally, the reverb and tremolo effects both sound great--it can surf, it can swamp, sounds just like a the classic Fender circuits. It's out for delivery today--will report back once I've had some time with it. I picked one of these up recently, and I'm very, very impressed with it. I've owned a DRRI and I currently own a 68 Custom Vibrolux. There is nothing - nothing - lacking in the Tone Master as compared to either of those amps. I think any differences between the Tone Master and a tube amp are no greater than the potential differences between any two tube amps. I think Fender really nailed it. The DI out makes it incredibly useful for so many gigging situations these days. The amp not only sounds great to me, but it feels great as well. I'm not here to say that it's superior or even equal to a well built tube amp like a Z. But I have no problem saying that it's a very useful and practical tool, a darn good sounding amp, and a great pedal platform too. All that said, I need to add a statement here that I've made on many other posts. One day, I *need* to own a Ghia. I have owned and loved a Mazerati, Maz Jr, Maz Sr, Stang Ray, and Z28. Before I hang up the spikes I've gotta try a Ghia. And then the Jetta came out and that has caught my attention too. And THEN I heard about the Z-Wreck Jr and THAT has really turned my head. Agree with your take on the Tonemaster 100%. And yeah--you totally need a Ghia.
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