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Post by nicholas on Mar 7, 2019 19:09:05 GMT -7
Any thoughts on putting the metro loop on the EMS? Seems to me if ever an amp deserved one, it would be that one. Curious minds and all that...
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Post by purpletele on Mar 7, 2019 19:40:14 GMT -7
Any thoughts on putting the metro loop on the EMS? Seems to me if ever an amp deserved one, it would be that one. Curious minds and all that... I think it is a good idea for the EMS as well as the Therapy. I have one that I am going to use in an amp very soon, anxious to see how it comes out.
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Post by eeyore on Mar 7, 2019 19:47:25 GMT -7
Googling "metro loop"
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Post by KeithA on Mar 7, 2019 20:46:16 GMT -7
The loop in some of Doc's amps is a 'drop in' module built by Metro Amps
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Post by KeithA on Mar 7, 2019 20:54:15 GMT -7
Any thoughts on putting the metro loop on the EMS? Seems to me if ever an amp deserved one, it would be that one. Curious minds and all that... I think it is a good idea for the EMS as well as the Therapy. I have one that I am going to use in an amp very soon, anxious to see how it comes out. I think it's a good idea for any amp that has cascaded gain stages. Simple preamps amps that get the grind from the power tubes won't gain much, if anything, from a loop. If the EMS had a loop I may have picked one up in January. Ultimately I went with another brand that had a loop but also had more gain on tap than the JCM800-esqe EMS...but a loop in the EMS may have got it done for me. Maybe not, but the presence of a loop would have made me think about it. I'll look to buy a Z first in every instance if it works for what I'm looking for. 😎
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Post by DRZ on Mar 8, 2019 4:21:12 GMT -7
Point well taken, I'm looking to ad the Merto loop to many of my designs. The CURE is next.
Z
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Post by jeffmp on Mar 16, 2019 5:06:43 GMT -7
I am very interested in this! Its exactly what i've been waiting for! Would make my EMS perfect!
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Post by DRZ on Mar 16, 2019 6:55:13 GMT -7
Just got the CURE Metro loop to work Friday. Will start to include it in the CURE soon. The EMS will next , in a while though as there isn't a lot of room with the Impedance select, SS/ Tube rectifier switch, need a major redesign of the back panel.
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Post by jeffmp on Mar 16, 2019 10:02:55 GMT -7
That would be great doc! That's really good news. You made my day! Have a nice weekend!
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Post by fdgtrman197 on Apr 2, 2019 18:22:52 GMT -7
How soon might Metro loop be in production Cures? Any chance of it in Maz 18?
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Post by DRZ on Apr 3, 2019 2:39:04 GMT -7
Not sure of a time frame, I have a lot on my plate al of a sudden. The MAZ EX loop works quite well , I don't see updating it in the near future.
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Post by madhermit on May 6, 2019 14:19:15 GMT -7
Not sure of a time frame, I have a lot on my plate al of a sudden. The MAZ EX loop works quite well , I don't see updating it in the near future. I look forward to hearing about this. Just got an EMS (it is glorious!) and would be curious about adding the Metro loop.
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Post by mallcorn on Aug 11, 2019 15:48:20 GMT -7
Just got the CURE Metro loop to work Friday. Will start to include it in the CURE soon. The EMS will next , in a while though as there isn't a lot of room with the Impedance select, SS/ Tube rectifier switch, need a major redesign of the back panel. How about a Metro Loop in the Z-Lux? Or possibly an 'instrument out' so you could grab the signal after the power section to run to time based effects and then on to another amp? Perhaps to another Z-Lux in a wet/dry setup.
FYI - I also own a Metroplex amp and it is a really good amp but if I could only own one amp it would easily be my Z-Lux. Great cleans, great breakup, and with a Revival Drive gets pretty darn close to some of the best Marshall tones.
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Post by jeffmp on Aug 11, 2019 17:39:29 GMT -7
What's a revival drive?
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Post by KeithA on Aug 11, 2019 23:44:38 GMT -7
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Post by jeffmp on Aug 13, 2019 17:31:57 GMT -7
Looks really nice , and very expensive! I read the add. Interesting. Now i know what a revival drive is. Thanks Keith
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Post by Norrin Radd on Jan 19, 2020 12:08:25 GMT -7
Just had a Metro Loop installed into my EMS (by a qualified amp tech - i.e., NOT ME!)
Initial thoughts: It works. Not sure if I'm 100% sold on it though. I need to really get the amp up to volume (read: play when no one else is home!). At lower volumes the loop level appears to fluctuate based on amp volume and adjustments to the gain knob. I was hoping for something more consistent. I have a loop on my Orange RV50 which is perfect. No noise, no level loss regardless of adjustments in amp gain or amp volume. Like I said though, I REALLY need to get the amp up to volume and see. IU'm wondering if my initial perceptions are just because I haven't had the opportunity to play loudly.
Will report back after I get that opportunity! (probably Thursday).
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Post by Norrin Radd on Jan 28, 2020 6:50:35 GMT -7
Alright - time for a follow up, since there have been so many questions. There is something in the way the gain works on this amp that makes using the loop, well, difficult at best. The loop level does not stay consitent as you change the gain levels on the amp OR with your guitars volume knob. The cleaner you have the amp, the more it behaves like a traditional loop. But who the hell buys this amp to play it clean? NOT ME! The short version - I regret that this mod didn't work better. I don't regret that there is a switch on the back which removes it completely from the circuit. SO, I wouldn't recommend it. Run your effects in FRONT of this amp and season to taste with your personal highest usable gain level. Then just accept that would have falloff when you roll down the volume on your guitar. I can do that! Anyone want to trade for a NOVA?
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Post by lowbudget on Jan 28, 2020 7:10:44 GMT -7
Alright - time for a follow up, since there have been so many questions. There is something in the way the gain works on this amp that makes using the loop, well, difficult at best. The loop level does not stay consitent as you change the gain levels on the amp OR with your guitars volume knob. The cleaner you have the amp, the more it behaves like a traditional loop. But who the hell buys this amp to play it clean? NOT ME! The short version - I regret that this mod didn't work better. I don't regret that there is a switch on the back which removes it completely from the circuit. SO, I wouldn't recommend it. Run your effects in FRONT of this amp and season to taste with your personal highest usable gain level. Then just accept that would have falloff when you roll down the volume on your guitar. I can do that! Anyone want to trade for a NOVA? I experienced a problem of this nature with the Metro loop in my Jetta. At low to moderate volumes all was fine, but anytime I cranked the master past around noon with a pedal in the loop the noise level became unacceptable.
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Post by frankie on Feb 13, 2020 14:42:38 GMT -7
Alright - time for a follow up, since there have been so many questions. There is something in the way the gain works on this amp that makes using the loop, well, difficult at best. The loop level does not stay consitent as you change the gain levels on the amp OR with your guitars volume knob. The cleaner you have the amp, the more it behaves like a traditional loop. But who the hell buys this amp to play it clean? NOT ME! The short version - I regret that this mod didn't work better. I don't regret that there is a switch on the back which removes it completely from the circuit. SO, I wouldn't recommend it. Run your effects in FRONT of this amp and season to taste with your personal highest usable gain level. Then just accept that would have falloff when you roll down the volume on your guitar. I can do that! Anyone want to trade for a NOVA? There should be a trim pot inside that will adjust the gain level. With amp with more gain the trim level should be set lower as it controls the signal driving the loop. So it sounds as if the tech may have set the loop level and less than full clip, or perhaps it has never been adjusted at all. Using the trim inside the amp can adjust for the amount of gain in the EMS and you may be able to find a healthy balance.
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Post by frankie on Feb 13, 2020 14:47:30 GMT -7
Alright - time for a follow up, since there have been so many questions. There is something in the way the gain works on this amp that makes using the loop, well, difficult at best. The loop level does not stay consitent as you change the gain levels on the amp OR with your guitars volume knob. The cleaner you have the amp, the more it behaves like a traditional loop. But who the hell buys this amp to play it clean? NOT ME! The short version - I regret that this mod didn't work better. I don't regret that there is a switch on the back which removes it completely from the circuit. SO, I wouldn't recommend it. Run your effects in FRONT of this amp and season to taste with your personal highest usable gain level. Then just accept that would have falloff when you roll down the volume on your guitar. I can do that! Anyone want to trade for a NOVA? I experienced a problem of this nature with the Metro loop in my Jetta. At low to moderate volumes all was fine, but anytime I cranked the master past around noon with a pedal in the loop the noise level became unacceptable. What pedal was in the loop? We have run into issues with people using particular AD/DA converted pedals that don't have an analog pass through (like the Line 6 helix products), that are simple a result of the loop amplifying noisy audio converters. This is a common issue with Line 6 products. Also another issue that gets amplified in the Jetta loop is having a transformer based power supply too close to the pedal in questions. Switching power supplies (like Truetone Onespots, Strymon Zuma, ect.) do not generate transformer based EMF noise, as they are transformer-less and noise-less. We had a gentleman who came in with his Jetta that had noise issues that were solved when he removed the power supply (a Pedal Power 2) away from the pedals in question that were in the loop.
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Post by lowbudget on Feb 13, 2020 20:34:11 GMT -7
frankie, I tried the following pedals and power supplies through the loop of two different Jettas that were 8 serial numbers apart:
Holy Grail Nano, tried with both a One Spot and then the dedicated power supply that comes with the pedal.
Mr. Black Deluxe Plus reverb/trem pedal with a One Spot power supply.
Mr. Black Deluxe Deluxe Plus reverb/trem (yes, a different pedal) with a One Spot power supply.
Strymon Flint with it’s own dedicated Strymon power supply. I had no need for the Flint but was willing to throw $300 into the pot trying to make the Jetta work.
I tried two different sets of patch cables as well as a longer set just fishing. I tried moving the power supplies to different outlets with extension cords to get them away from the amp.
All these combinations worked perfectly with 9 other Z amps I have but none made any difference with the Jettas.
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Post by KeithA on Feb 14, 2020 10:58:28 GMT -7
frankie, I tried the following pedals and power supplies through the loop of two different Jettas that were 8 serial numbers apart: Holy Grail Nano, tried with both a One Spot and then the dedicated power supply that comes with the pedal. Mr. Black Deluxe Plus reverb/trem pedal with a One Spot power supply. Mr. Black Deluxe Deluxe Plus reverb/trem (yes, a different pedal) with a One Spot power supply. Strymon Flint with it’s own dedicated Strymon power supply. I had no need for the Flint but was willing to throw $300 into the pot trying to make the Jetta work. I tried two different sets of patch cables as well as a longer set just fishing. I tried moving the power supplies to different outlets with extension cords to get them away from the amp. All these combinations worked perfectly with 9 other Z amps I have but none made any difference with the Jettas. Jan 28, 2020 10:40:44 GMT -3.5 lowbudget (aka fasteddie) said:
I experienced a problem of this nature with the Metro loop in my Jetta. At low to moderate volumes all was fine, but anytime I cranked the master past around noon with a pedal in the loop the noise level became unacceptable.
lowbudget, would you have a video or sound clip of this? Just curious if others have experienced this?
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Post by lowbudget on Feb 14, 2020 12:41:49 GMT -7
frankie, I tried the following pedals and power supplies through the loop of two different Jettas that were 8 serial numbers apart: Holy Grail Nano, tried with both a One Spot and then the dedicated power supply that comes with the pedal. Mr. Black Deluxe Plus reverb/trem pedal with a One Spot power supply. Mr. Black Deluxe Deluxe Plus reverb/trem (yes, a different pedal) with a One Spot power supply. Strymon Flint with it’s own dedicated Strymon power supply. I had no need for the Flint but was willing to throw $300 into the pot trying to make the Jetta work. I tried two different sets of patch cables as well as a longer set just fishing. I tried moving the power supplies to different outlets with extension cords to get them away from the amp. All these combinations worked perfectly with 9 other Z amps I have but none made any difference with the Jettas. Jan 28, 2020 10:40:44 GMT -3.5 lowbudget (aka fasteddie) said:
I experienced a problem of this nature with the Metro loop in my Jetta. At low to moderate volumes all was fine, but anytime I cranked the master past around noon with a pedal in the loop the noise level became unacceptable.
lowbudget, would you have a video or sound clip of this? Just curious if others have experienced this? Keith I don't have a clip of my own since they're both gone at this point, but the one recorded by issya in the thread "Jetta hum" describes mine perfectly. The very last example in his clip (right before the end) is exactly what mine were doing. Here is a link to his clip, but if it doesn't work you can pull it up from his thread: www.dropbox.com/s/y72hy08y3g280ih/IMG_0714.MOV?dl=0
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Post by KeithA on Feb 14, 2020 13:04:46 GMT -7
Jan 28, 2020 10:40:44 GMT -3.5 lowbudget (aka fasteddie) said:
I experienced a problem of this nature with the Metro loop in my Jetta. At low to moderate volumes all was fine, but anytime I cranked the master past around noon with a pedal in the loop the noise level became unacceptable.
lowbudget, would you have a video or sound clip of this? Just curious if others have experienced this? Keith I don't have a clip of my own since they're both gone at this point, but the one recorded by issya in the thread "Jetta hum" describes mine perfectly. The very last example in his clip (right before the end) is exactly what mine were doing. Here is a link to his clip, but if it doesn't work you can pull it up from his thread: www.dropbox.com/s/y72hy08y3g280ih/IMG_0714.MOV?dl=0Great. Thanks.
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Post by petton on Feb 20, 2020 8:42:54 GMT -7
Well, I'm glad I got one before it gets a loop. I really don't want that in the signal path. They are never transparent. My Boogie Mark V has a switchable one, for example. It sounds a lot better with the loop disconnected. My 2 cents.
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Post by Norrin Radd on Mar 14, 2021 8:23:45 GMT -7
I experienced a problem of this nature with the Metro loop in my Jetta. At low to moderate volumes all was fine, but anytime I cranked the master past around noon with a pedal in the loop the noise level became unacceptable. What pedal was in the loop? We have run into issues with people using particular AD/DA converted pedals that don't have an analog pass through (like the Line 6 helix products), that are simple a result of the loop amplifying noisy audio converters. This is a common issue with Line 6 products. Also another issue that gets amplified in the Jetta loop is having a transformer based power supply too close to the pedal in questions. Switching power supplies (like Truetone Onespots, Strymon Zuma, ect.) do not generate transformer based EMF noise, as they are transformer-less and noise-less. We had a gentleman who came in with his Jetta that had noise issues that were solved when he removed the power supply (a Pedal Power 2) away from the pedals in question that were in the loop. Thanks for the heads up! Why didn’t I see this until now (over a year later)? I will give it a go and report back what I find.
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Post by Norrin Radd on Jul 23, 2021 7:34:32 GMT -7
So yesterday I decided to mess around with the little trim pot to see if I could make the loop work better with the EMS. The short answer is - nope. Seriously considering sending my amp back to Z to put it back to stock. No matter what I’ve tried with that trim pot or different power supplies or just single pedals at a time (with and without using batteries and DC power), I just can’t get that loop to work like I want it to. Whenever the loop is engaged, there’s a definite hit to the high end of the amp. Even when there is nothing plugged into the loop and you switch it out of the circuit, you can hear a difference. Not sure how I’m supposed to call Z amps, but that call will be made soon! 😬
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Post by adam on Jul 23, 2021 18:42:18 GMT -7
I noticed Eric Johnson, Jimi Hendrix, Van Halen and a few others seemed to get on fine without an fx loop. Just a thought.
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Post by Norrin Radd on Jul 23, 2021 20:18:42 GMT -7
I noticed Eric Johnson, Jimi Hendrix, Van Halen and a few others seemed to get on fine without an fx loop. Just a thought. Well, One guy played all his music before amps had effects loops. Another guy played with signals going to two different amps. And the third guy designed his first signature amplifier with an effects loop. So I understand the point you’re trying to make, but an effects loop is just another tool. If a tool is available and it does the job, why not use it? there are plenty of great amps that have effects loops, including a good many made by Dr. Z. So while I appreciate your attempt at some good natured ribbing, your post doesn’t really help a whole lot. There are lots of valid reasons why someone might find an effects loop on the EMS useful. And pointing to 3 guys who didn’t use them (or maybe some did???) doesn’t assist those of us who are attempting to find a way to solve some “problems” in our own rig situations.
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