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Post by humphreyaudio on Feb 18, 2006 10:15:08 GMT -7
[/img] Greets fellow Z'ers, I picked up a set of these Weber 'Beam-Blocker' High frequency diffusers for my 2x18 Maz 18 JR NR, and have had them installed for a few weeks now, and several gigs have now passed. I thought it sounded like a good idea because most of the time I set my amp in front of me on the monitor line, or off to the side of the stage facing in towards me, and the direct high end causes me to turn the amp slightly to redirect some it it. Also, I've used the usual duct tape, etc, but I didn't want to do that on my Maz. The grill cloth is simply too nice. The results were great actually. The blockers seem to cause the direct top end from the center of the speaker to blend with the smoother tone of the speaker cone, and also allows me to hear more of the cabinets tone along with the speakers, which is very pleasing to me. Also, I believe that the timing of the frequencies is more even, meaning that the full spectrum of the amplifiers sound reaches my ear at the same time, even in a short distance. This helps rid the amp of some of those overtones you can get when playing a very driven tone. These are things which Weber does NOT use as selling points, but should. The installation is pretty easy, although the Z speaker gaskets cling pretty hard to the baffle board. You'll want to get a thin putty knife and carefully give the whole gasket the spatula treatment before removing the driver. I was able to install these without disconnecting the speakers. With the amp laying on it's face I simply lifted them out and set them on the back board facing up. The whole thing is easy, and the end result is well worth the cost, ($40/pair, singles also sold.) and they work better than advertised, a normal thing for Weber products. I highly recommend them. Thanks, Mark Humphrey
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Post by Seńor Verde on Feb 18, 2006 12:06:04 GMT -7
I have Beam Blockers on all of my 1x12 amps and agree with your evaluation. I gave one to my cousin for his Hughes & Kettner combo and he really liked the results too.
Depending on your speaker, you do not necessarily need to trim the speaker gasket. My Celestion G12H and Weber Blue Dog gaskets kind of formed around the Beam Blocker after a couple days and I just re-snugged the screws.
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Post by ruger9 on Feb 18, 2006 16:30:32 GMT -7
+1 on Beam Blockers. All amps should come with these things as standard.
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Post by billyguitar on Feb 18, 2006 16:33:40 GMT -7
I've used one on my Evans and then put it in my Maz 38 combo. It is a nice thing. I could live without one but I'd rather not.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Feb 19, 2006 16:30:07 GMT -7
I now have beam blockers on my Mazerati and they are doing a fine job.
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Post by zdogma on Feb 19, 2006 17:01:43 GMT -7
Any volume loss with these?
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Post by ruger9 on Feb 20, 2006 7:27:50 GMT -7
None. The only place there may be *perceived* volume loss is directly in front of the speaker, but that's what they are supposed to do: they disperse the high frequencies than come directly out of the front of the speaker, i.e. they "get rid of the beaminess". Also, when you are off-axis to the cab, with Beam Blockers you don't immediately lose all those highs, because they are being dispersed evenly. So the amp sound pretty much the same whether you are directly in front of it, or off to the side.
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Post by zdogma on Feb 20, 2006 20:29:26 GMT -7
Sounds great. I will try one.
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Post by mikefleming on Feb 22, 2006 11:38:38 GMT -7
I tried that a while back with my Maz 2x10, and had fit problems, but maybe I need to try again.
When I tried, the BBs seemed to extend past the frame of the Z speakers, so that the frame was resting on the BB instead of the wood. I thought about grinding them down to fit. I didn't though because the other thing was the gasket didn't seem compressible enough to form around the BB's. My Maz is a 2000, so maybe the gasket on the Z speaker is a different material now.
Either way, this has inspired me to go back and give it another shot. If anybody else has tried BB's on a Maz 2x10 I'd love to hear about any tips.
Mike
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Post by ruger9 on Feb 22, 2006 16:45:41 GMT -7
I don't think what you describe is a fit problem; that's the way the Beam Blockers install. I never thought about when I installed them, but I just looked at my amp again (4x10's) and the speakers are resting on the BBs, but only on the 2 screws where the BBs install. They other 2 screws have the speaker against the baffle. I haven't noticed any tone loss, extra vibrations, rattles, etc, if that's what you're worried about.
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Post by quinto on Feb 22, 2006 17:36:59 GMT -7
Do they change the way you mic up the amp, or can you still put it half way between the center and edge of the speaker for a good blend?
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Post by sparrowhawk (Bob) on Feb 23, 2006 6:55:37 GMT -7
I considered trying one, but the installation istructions indicate that it goes between the speaker and the baffle. Doesn't this "decouple" the speaker from the cabinet and effectively give you only two points of direct contact to the baffle? And what about potentially warping the speaker frame by tightening the remaining screws unevenly?
Again, this is just my perception based on reading about them. Input is welcome!
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Post by ruger9 on Feb 23, 2006 15:27:14 GMT -7
I considered trying one, but the installation istructions indicate that it goes between the speaker and the baffle. Doesn't this "decouple" the speaker from the cabinet and effectively give you only two points of direct contact to the baffle? Yes, but I haven't seen or heard any problem or tone loss from it. My amp sounds BETTER with the Blockers. They've been in almost a year now, with no problems, rattles, nothing. And what about potentially warping the speaker frame by tightening the remaining screws unevenly? Again, almost a year- I certainly don't notice (see or hear) anything "strange" going on. I can understand your concerns, I just don't know that they are warranted (or not?). I will say that as far as the "de-coupling" goes, that makes it sound like you will be losing some solidity of tone or something, YOU DO NOT. I'm no sonic engineer, but I know what I hear. I have no bass loss, no tone degradation, no rattles, just more evenly dispersed highs/no beaming/better overall tone, over a wider area.
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Post by humphreyaudio on Feb 24, 2006 15:04:55 GMT -7
I considered trying one, but the installation istructions indicate that it goes between the speaker and the baffle. Doesn't this "decouple" the speaker from the cabinet and effectively give you only two points of direct contact to the baffle? And what about potentially warping the speaker frame by tightening the remaining screws unevenly? Again, this is just my perception based on reading about them. Input is welcome! Being in pro audio as well as a pro guitarist, I don't put tons of concern on how much of a small guitar amp speaker is contacting the baffle board when a cardboard surround gasket is in use. You'll only get so much inch pounds of torque anyway, and the over compression of the gasket will eventually lead to spreading, and that can cause more problems too. We're not talking about a 1000 watt 18" sub low driver here. Snug 'em, leave 'em, check them in a month. Meanwhile that thin strip of metal on the beam blocker just becomes surrounded/absorbed by the gasket. You're not going to lose any *REAL* contact between the speaker and the surround. Thanks, Mark Humphrey Humphrey Audio
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Post by sparrowhawk (Bob) on Feb 24, 2006 16:16:28 GMT -7
Thanks for the education, guys!
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Post by mazmaster on Mar 9, 2006 9:29:48 GMT -7
Great thread! Been thinking about the BB's for a while now. However, I haven't really noticed a real problem with the high frequencies right in front of my cab...and I do put it on a stand and angle up towards my head. I have tweaked my whole endlessly though to get the tones I'm after, so maybe that has lessened this effect. Whatever the case, sounds like the BB's are worth a try. I may not realize what I'm missing!!!
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Mar 9, 2006 23:33:31 GMT -7
What you'll find with the Beam Blockers though is that you can walk all over the stage and you don't have that significant dropoff as soon as you get out from in front of the amp. For me, that's worth as much as not killing the first row!
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Post by guitargeorge on Jun 18, 2006 8:57:22 GMT -7
just received and installed beam blockers in my MAZ 18 2-10 and it seems that the Dr Z special design 10's frames are too small for the beam blocker strap and I had to cut a little off each end to get them to fit under the frames. I don't know if they would fit a Jensen or a emminence but out of the box they did'nt fit my Weber Dr Z 10's. As for the results, I like it, no icepicky highs aimed straight at my ears, they do work, they don't really affect the sound of the amp, they just make it easier to have a good cutting tone and have the amp where you can hear it.
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azfenderman
New Member
Performing Classic Rock & Country Hits...
Posts: 28
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Post by azfenderman on Jun 20, 2006 10:47:25 GMT -7
just received and installed beam blockers in my MAZ 18 2-10 and it seems that the Dr Z special design 10's frames are too small for the beam blocker strap and I had to cut a little off each end to get them to fit under the frames. I don't know if they would fit a Jensen or a emminence but out of the box they did'nt fit my Weber Dr Z 10's. As for the results, I like it, no icepicky highs aimed straight at my ears, they do work, they don't really affect the sound of the amp, they just make it easier to have a good cutting tone and have the amp where you can hear it. Hi guitargeorge! I have a Jr with 2 - Dr. Z 10" speakers and am also considering using the BBs. I assume I would have the same problem you had and need to trim the ends some. What did you use to do that? The other question/concern I have with the BBs is do they, in anyway, cause a loss of high frequencies (or, as I'm understanding the string, just disperse the highs)? Thanks! AZ~
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Post by cheycaster on Jun 20, 2006 11:13:54 GMT -7
AHHHHH!!!!! No more GAS please!!! heheheee...Now as you know, I gotta have em to try. they sound really killer and I have been tossing around the idea for awhile now too myself. This forum is a great place to find out about all this stuff. Thanks to all who have thrown in there two cents worth. Cheycaster
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Post by guitargeorge on Jun 20, 2006 11:17:45 GMT -7
I had to trim off about 1/8" off of each end, I used a hacksaw, it was'nt hard to do, but I was a little pissed off because they did'nt fit my "weber" speakers right out of the box. As for what they do, I am not perceiving any loss of anything, the MAZ 18 has enough high end to deafen a dog but I can now stand with the amp pointed at my head and I can crank the high and mids and it's not excruciating. I think beam blockers should come a standard equipment on a MAZ 18 2/10, they really are an improvement.
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Post by cheycaster on Jun 20, 2006 19:19:36 GMT -7
Cool. I may try the duct tape thingy first to see if they really sound good to me. After reading these interviews here tho, I'd trust that they do as planned.
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Post by guitargeorge on Jun 21, 2006 4:15:56 GMT -7
I tested mine by cutting out (2) 3" diameter pieces of cardboard and I used velcro to attach the discs to the grille cloth.
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Post by billyguitar on Jun 21, 2006 5:07:25 GMT -7
I've tried the cardboard test and the real BBs don't affect the tone as much. BBs are cheap and effective with almost no change in tone just better dispersion, it's a no-brainer, order some!
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Post by ke4unr on Jun 21, 2006 9:51:51 GMT -7
just received and installed beam blockers in my MAZ 18 2-10 and it seems that the Dr Z special design 10's frames are too small for the beam blocker strap and I had to cut a little off each end to get them to fit under the frames. I don't know if they would fit a Jensen or a emminence but out of the box they did'nt fit my Weber Dr Z 10's. As for the results, I like it, no icepicky highs aimed straight at my ears, they do work, they don't really affect the sound of the amp, they just make it easier to have a good cutting tone and have the amp where you can hear it. Hmm, I have a Maz Jr 210. No problems when I installed my Beam Blockers. Yes, the straps extend a bit on either side. But, the ends do not have to be flush with the speaker frames. Sorry I'm not understanding. Do you mean the screw holes would not line up? Or that the straps were too long to fit in the cab? Or...? Ray K.
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Post by guitargeorge on Jun 21, 2006 10:35:15 GMT -7
I could'nt get them to fit inside the speaker frames and I'm sure that they are not intended to hang with 2 ends hanging out from under the frames. The length if the strap was larger than the inside diameter of the speaker frame so I had to shorten the strap by about 1/8" on either side. I could'nt see any other way to install them and still have a full face of the speaker frame making contact with the baffleboard.
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Post by guitargeorge on Jun 21, 2006 12:26:17 GMT -7
I e-mailed weber and I obviously have my speakers tightened down too much, the speaker frame is not supposed to come in contact with the baffleboard and the blocker straps are intended to poke out from the edge of the speaker frame, well cat my dogs, I'm glad I cleared up that controversy. I guess I did'nt do any harm by cutting the straps because they are still retained in place by the screws, I guess I'll have to back off those screws and hope the gaskets swell back out, learn something new everyday.
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Post by billyguitar on Jun 21, 2006 12:45:11 GMT -7
Dang! I just emailed him about clarifying this issue. I have a Stang Ray and 2 x 10 cab coming in any minute now and I wanted to be sure I was going to do it right. I've already ordered and received the BBs form WeberVST. I'm sure you didn't do any harm to your speakers.
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Post by guitargeorge on Jun 21, 2006 12:51:38 GMT -7
I've been playing guitar for 30+ years, I'll be 50 this year and I never knew that you don't tighten speakers down to the frame, It makes sense, thats why they put the gasket in there, aint this forum great!
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Post by ke4unr on Jun 21, 2006 14:18:22 GMT -7
I've been playing guitar for 30+ years, I'll be 50 this year and I never knew that you don't tighten speakers down to the frame, It makes sense, thats why they put the gasket in there, aint this forum great! Glad you got it figured out! No harm, no foul. I thought you might have gotten a set of faulty or malformed Beam Blockers. In which case a call or e-mail to Ted would have taken care of it. Ray K. p.s. Between you and me - I'm one year younger, and I don't have it all figured out yet either. Don't let on...
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