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Post by redzsrock on May 20, 2018 8:30:21 GMT -7
First off, I admit that I suck at dialing in OD pedals. It seems that when I finally get a good tight crunch rhythm sound, my volume is so much louder than my clean tone. When I get a nice clean tone, I get a weak driven tone.
Idk. Any general tips for working with OD tones and evening out volume levels?
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Post by walt on May 20, 2018 9:31:39 GMT -7
Barber gain changer,toggle to the less hot side(to the right),the gain knob at about 10 30,the volume just past unity.This works for me 2 ways-when playing totally clean,it gives me a nice dirty rythm sound,and when the amp(Therapy)is dirty,it pushes it into ROCK lead guitar tone.And If i want to go all out distortion,I have a Muff style fuzz to do that. The OD keeps the amp sound and volume,as it's mostly acting as a little flavour on top of what the amp is already doing.Sort of a dirty boost.Bear in mind I don't gig,play in the same room all the time,and have dialed things in to the way I like them in this room.Obviously gigging out is a totally differant animal.
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Post by doctorice on May 20, 2018 9:35:22 GMT -7
Fwiw, I generally don't run drive or gain higher than noon.
It seems to me part of it is figuring out how hard the pedal volume / level control pushes your amp's front end. If your clean tone settings are running near the point of spilling into breakup, a level push from the dirt box can mess things up as you mix gain from the pedal with amp breakup. (Sometimes, of course, this is fun.) One thing to experiment with is to turn the pedal gain all the way down, then figure out where the pedal's volume control gets you to unity gain. Then you can start playing with the tradeoff between increased drive, which tends to up the output from the pedal, and how much to turn down the pedal's level.
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Post by BritInvasion on May 20, 2018 11:10:05 GMT -7
What Mike says^^
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Post by digs57 on May 20, 2018 12:49:12 GMT -7
A shade higher than unity pedal on..."match vol without pedal engaged"...Setting vol/gain just high enough...Keeping base tone clean 6-8ish...letting guitar volume get the crunch/breakup happening when cranked 8-10...
(This is setting for an always on timmy into rc boost.)
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Post by LT on May 20, 2018 13:53:33 GMT -7
^^^ me too....just a shade over unity. That generally means V at less than noon for me. I need a fairly clean base tone on a lot of tunes we play, so Gain ends up at about noon or slightly higher.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on May 20, 2018 17:39:38 GMT -7
I always set volume for unity or a slight boost, but I like my gain a lot higher than most here. My Gain changer is around 2:00-3:00 on gain. I do keep the Clarksdale around 11:00 so I can boost a second pedal down-chain from it without getting too noisy. BUT since I got my Z-Wreck (Thanks again, Lou!) I've been dialing it back a bit. The Wreck is so dynamic and responsive that I hate compressing the guitar input to it. If I can get the volume up to 11:00 or so on the Wreck I don't really need pedals.
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on May 20, 2018 18:08:25 GMT -7
Interesting thread for someone who has never gotten the hang of ODs. I’m lucky enough to have a herd of Zs in many different flavors. That said, I cherish the differences in each and as such only use attenuators to bring out the goods in each amp at reasonable volumes. I’m not playing out now and don’t need multiple voices in one night for shows, but if I did I would still probably just bring the attenuator and juice the amp when needed. With all that, I have gotten some utility from clean boosts, but not enough not to just turn the Z boost pedal up a bit.
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Post by redzsrock on May 21, 2018 6:28:19 GMT -7
I spent several hours with a buddy who has great guitar tone the other day. He showed me how he runs his OD's, and it sounds amazing. I tried some of his settings on my rig at church yesterday, but it just didn't quite work for me. First, it was way too loud. Second, I couldn't get a nice clean(ish) tone, because the OD pedals were running so hot.
For example, we ran a TS mini like this:
Gain: off Tone: noon Level: maxed
Then we used that to push an OCD set like this:
Gain: 8-10:00 Level: 10-11:00 Eq: to taste.
It sounds amazing for dirtier tones. Really tight crunch too. Maybe a little too dirty for my tastes. Plus, when I would turn off the pedals for a cleaner tone, the volume drop was so great that I would have the readjust the master on the amp to be heard.
So I don't think that the method of slamming the front-end of the amp with OD's is gonna work for me. idk. There's so many variables here.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2018 6:55:52 GMT -7
You gotta get the amp to the point where it's just about starting to clip. Control your cleans with your picking technique or roll back the guitar volume a tad if you need pristine clean.
I've always found the amp needs to be running hot to get the most out of OD's and boosts.
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Post by daveyk on May 21, 2018 8:26:33 GMT -7
I run my Maz 38 pretty loud, master around noon, volume around noon. Then i knock down some of the volume with my Brake-lite, usually 3 clicks on. With the break lite, if i hit the front end of the amp really hard, i don't really get much of an increase in volume, just break up. Not sure what i would do with out my brake lite! But in general, i don't like running pedal gain very high. I much prefer to run the gain on the pedal fairly low and then use the pedal's volume to hit the front end of the amp harder to get more overdrive. That's where the brake lite comes in handy so that when i'm engaging a boost or overdrive pedal, the volume doesn't change drastically.
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Post by redzsrock on May 21, 2018 12:14:00 GMT -7
Thanks so much for all the suggestions. I'm learning so much here!
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Post by Christopher on May 21, 2018 13:30:49 GMT -7
I like to use a boost to goose the amp but sometimes that's not enough and an OD is set loud enough to know it's on and crunchy enough to change the edge of the tone. I make time to check the levels during sound check to make sure I don't blast my bandmates or have a huge change in level from my clean to the searing tones.
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Post by bigben55 on May 21, 2018 20:16:42 GMT -7
I set my Z28 where its clean with a strat, maybe some hair if I pick HARD. It's at the edge of breakup with my tele(Fralin Blues Specials). I set the BB Preamp AT unity volume, but with the gain at about 80%. I set the Timmy at about 15% gain but above unity volume, say 10% louder. I'll use the BB for base dirt where I need distorted rhythm, Timmy for leads. And Timmy for leads over clean rhythm. It's a great 1-2 punch yielding 4 tones.
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Post by gbowman on May 22, 2018 8:17:13 GMT -7
The OD pedal thing seems tricky indeed. I run with a clean amp and tend to set up pedals for solo tones. For clean solos I use a Diamond compressor boosting above unity. I use a Gain Changer for my blues-y fusion-y tones (think Mark Lettieri), again bit over unity on the hot channel with the gain past noon. Finally, a Plimsoul for the big rock solos or rolled back for a good crunchy rhythm. The tricky bit is I rarely have the guitar volume wide open, so dialling in the OD volume to have enough drive without winding up either too quiet or way too loud...
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Post by doctorice on May 22, 2018 13:17:46 GMT -7
The tricky bit is I rarely have the guitar volume wide open, so dialling in the OD volume to have enough drive without winding up either too quite or way too loud... Yup, there is an art to using the guitar's volume and tone knobs in conjunction with both setting and running OD pedals. A stunningly obvious insight that took me a long time to fully appreciate. Similar to differences between getting good sound in a live full-band setting and pleasing tones at home / solo.
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Post by digs57 on May 22, 2018 13:35:06 GMT -7
^^^ yeah I definitely like to keep pedal gain down as low as I can...so I can open guitar as wide open needed for solos backed off for clean.
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Post by Stephen on May 29, 2018 6:11:46 GMT -7
I just saw a video on Andy Timmons’ pedal board. He runs a Boss Blues Driver and a JHS Angry Charlie. He runs the Blues Driver volume up and gain down all the time and hits it with the Angry Charlie gain volume down and gain up. I just got a Boss JB-2 (combination Blues Driver and Angry Charlie) and that is how I run it.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on May 29, 2018 14:51:28 GMT -7
So you get a good distorted tone with the AC and then use the BD side to slam the amp's input? What about the tone controls, do you keep them about the same or is one high and the other low? I've gotten some very cool tones out of this pedal but I can't find a setting that I rely on gig to gig. It seems like it changes a lot which could be a change of amp/guitar or that the knobs are getting moved when I bag up my pedal board. Wish that the pedal had knob locks!
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Post by Stephen on May 29, 2018 15:57:56 GMT -7
No, I keep the Boss on for rhythm and cleaner leads and switch to the JHS for dirt. The guitar volume will clean up the Boss side.
In other words, I use the third counter-clockwise setting (JHS/BOSS). I haven’t run them together, though the fourth setting J>B would be more like the way Andy Timmons uses it.
Usually, Level is B=2, J=10, and Drive is B=10, J=2. Tone just depends on the guitar and amp.
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Post by GT Roger on May 31, 2018 12:13:25 GMT -7
I keep my levels on the pedals slightly above unity. I do that for my overdrives, fuzz and compressor.
My overall sound seems to sound better when everything boosts the level a hair.
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Post by Rhythmark on May 31, 2018 19:41:04 GMT -7
I use ods just for that reason to have clean and mean at the same level. Volume wise. I always get my clean where I want it - then adjust the od pedal volume to match. I usually have a boost pedal for clean or dirty- solos. Also , how I attack the strings can grit up the od or soften it. I like my gain up past noon-
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Post by gibsonguitar1988 on Aug 17, 2018 2:41:05 GMT -7
I like keeping the amp clean or very little grit and using my pedals for all of the gain. It's how I've always done it and I prefer that for versatility and I think the tone is just as good.
I will run them in a stairstep fashion, each one down the line a little hotter than the last. So I can step up in terms of gain. I like both regular styled overdrives as well as amp in a box pedals, and I use them pretty similarly. I just will incrementally start stacking pedals until I get the desired gain effect. Sometimes I'll use just one higher gain pedal by itself.
My only pro tip is to run the lowest gain pedal closest to the guitar, and the highest gain pedal closest to the amp. Low gain into high gain sounds better to me. Less thick and full and more open. I use a water pressure analogy. High gain into low gain stacked is like a small tube with lots of pressure, and low gain into high gain stacked is like a large tube with little or no pressure. I tend to go for more bright and stringy tones than big fat thick tones usually although I can do that, I like to keep it more open and stringy. Play around with it though.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2018 13:49:30 GMT -7
It really depends on the pedal. A lot of "classic" OD pedals don't really open up tone-wise unless they're cranked--volume past noon, say--so it's really hard to get a good OD tone at the same volume, or close enough, as your amp's clean tone. This is the big shortcoming of the KoT and yer basic Screemer type pedal for me. To my way of thinking, one of the hallmarks of a good OD pedal is that it doesn't sound strangled or muffled at lower volume settings--makes it a lot easier to dial in a good, fat overdriven tone without that huge volume spike when you kick it in in the middle of your solo. I've been through a LOT of OD's the past ten years or so, and the ones that don't sound good at lower volume settings typically get sold of or sent back right away.
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Post by LT on Aug 17, 2018 14:14:24 GMT -7
I like keeping the amp clean or very little grit and using my pedals for all of the gain. It's how I've always done it and I prefer that for versatility and I think the tone is just as good. I will run them in a stairstep fashion, each one down the line a little hotter than the last. So I can step up in terms of gain. I like both regular styled overdrives as well as amp in a box pedals, and I use them pretty similarly. I just will incrementally start stacking pedals until I get the desired gain effect. Sometimes I'll use just one higher gain pedal by itself. My only pro tip is to run the lowest gain pedal closest to the guitar, and the highest gain pedal closest to the amp. Low gain into high gain sounds better to me. Less thick and full and more open. I use a water pressure analogy. High gain into low gain stacked is like a small tube with lots of pressure, and low gain into high gain stacked is like a large tube with little or no pressure. I tend to go for more bright and stringy tones than big fat thick tones usually although I can do that, I like to keep it more open and stringy. Play around with it though. I've done the same for many years, but lately I'm trying it the other way around. I run a J Rockett Rockaway (their Klon circuit with a 6 band EQ) into a lower gain Keeley mod Boss BD-2. Amp is set clean. I use the BD-2 to replicate the equivalent of me running the amp into light OD, then hit that tone with the higher gain Rockaway. I can lower the gain and up the volume on the Rockaway when set this way. So far I really like this "reverse" to what I've done for years.
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Post by helmi on Aug 17, 2018 15:23:26 GMT -7
I don't play clean, (it's a habit) unless i'm just noodling around at home. I never like to use a overdrive for my main sound. I have med to high gain amps already. (not "metal" high gain, just heavy rock) I like my rhythm sound to be strictly from the amp. I only use a overdrive or a clean boost when I'm attempting to stumble horribly through a lead. if i want to keep the same tone but just a little hotter, I hit the clean boost. if i want to add a more over the top tone, i hit the overdrive.
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Post by gibsonguitar1988 on Aug 18, 2018 0:26:17 GMT -7
I like keeping the amp clean or very little grit and using my pedals for all of the gain. It's how I've always done it and I prefer that for versatility and I think the tone is just as good. I will run them in a stairstep fashion, each one down the line a little hotter than the last. So I can step up in terms of gain. I like both regular styled overdrives as well as amp in a box pedals, and I use them pretty similarly. I just will incrementally start stacking pedals until I get the desired gain effect. Sometimes I'll use just one higher gain pedal by itself. My only pro tip is to run the lowest gain pedal closest to the guitar, and the highest gain pedal closest to the amp. Low gain into high gain sounds better to me. Less thick and full and more open. I use a water pressure analogy. High gain into low gain stacked is like a small tube with lots of pressure, and low gain into high gain stacked is like a large tube with little or no pressure. I tend to go for more bright and stringy tones than big fat thick tones usually although I can do that, I like to keep it more open and stringy. Play around with it though. I've done the same for many years, but lately I'm trying it the other way around. I run a J Rockett Rockaway (their Klon circuit with a 6 band EQ) into a lower gain Keeley mod Boss BD-2. Amp is set clean. I use the BD-2 to replicate the equivalent of me running the amp into light OD, then hit that tone with the higher gain Rockaway. I can lower the gain and up the volume on the Rockaway when set this way. So far I really like this "reverse" to what I've done for years. I think the reason I don't do that is the same reason I run my amps clean. I like that clean amp sound with a pedal in front. High gain into low gain sounds a bit too rich and thick and more like amp overdrive. It's certainly the way to go if you want to keep your amp clean but still get that sound of a cranked amp. I know, I'm weird but I'm trying to avoid that sound if possible, haha. Truth be told, I've just gotten used to the pedal OD sound. I've tried to break myself of it, but I can't... I just like the sound of pedal overdriven into a clean tube amp. I still like tubes but for their clean tone mostly.A good big sounding high headroom Fendery tube amp is what I'm after. Which is why I love my Therapy. Gives just a hint of edge the way I set it with the gain down and master up and is like a big Fender but better and more lively. I use pedals for all of my gain.
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Post by Rhino on Sept 6, 2018 19:31:48 GMT -7
I run the Z-Wreck at 1:30 so there's plenty of gain on-tap even with single coil pickups. I'm cleaning/rearranging the pedalboard tonight and the Geeer Lightspeed stays. Vol=2:00, Drive=10:00 so not much gain though pedal is there more for a tone sweetening / bit of compression. I remove a couple of other pedals (Analogman Bad Bob & Fulltone FD1) as I never used them (guitar volume instead!). Since I had space I added the Fulltone Mas Malo but have yet to dial it in. I figured I needed something extreme to pair with the Greer and it came down to a Fulltone Octafuzz (w/ fuzz switch) and the Mas Malo. We'll see how long it takes me to put something else in that spot...or put my Analogman NKT-275 white dot Sunface on which is ALWAYS a hit! :-)
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