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Post by John E. on May 8, 2018 9:19:45 GMT -7
I have a Martin 000 style and a Gibson L4A and they both sound awful! I've taken them both to my tech and the Gibson came back sounding better but still some intonation issues. The martin just sounds thin and buzzy. Any advice??
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2018 9:25:23 GMT -7
Both of them? Do you use a humidifier? If not, start yesterday. If yes, find a new tech.
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Post by gbowman on May 8, 2018 10:06:28 GMT -7
This may be a rudimentary thought, But I must have gone through a mountain of different acoustic (and classical) guitar strings looking to the right tone. Every acoustic seems to have its own type... brass, bronze, light, medium, finger-style, flatpick material... on and on. I never like really bright acoustic strings. Oh ya, thin picks..! There's a way to make a nice guitar sound crappy.
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Post by "Z" Steve on May 8, 2018 10:58:35 GMT -7
This may be a rudimentary thought, But I must have gone through a mountain of different acoustic (and classical) guitar strings looking to the right tone. Every acoustic seems to have its own type... brass, bronze, light, medium, finger-style, flatpick material... on and on. I never like really bright acoustic strings. Oh ya, thin picks..! There's a way to make a nice guitar sound crappy. And I've discovered the hard way that the install of the pickup system (Piezo especially) can cause thin tone. But before you hack away at the instrument or invest in other "fixes", have someone else play the guitar(s) and then you stand back 5- 10 feet and let your ears decipher any tone issues. My old Guild F40 always sounded thin to me, but everyone who was out there listening loved it - even better than more expensive guitars next to it. Try the easy stuff first then move on the next test.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2018 11:57:04 GMT -7
Quick diagnosis:
1.Thin and buzzy can happen if the action's too low or the neck angle's too far back. 2.Super light strings can make even a great guitar sound weak. Martin generally recommends mediums. Harder to play, for sure, but will really open up your guitar and make it ring. 3.Cheap saddle material or a poorly fitted/seated saddle can kill your acoustic tone faster than almost anything. 4.Technique--if you're used to palm muting everything on electric, do less of it on acoustic. 5.Heavy picks. It matters what you're hitting the string with. I like the Tortex 1mm, but almost anything will work as long as it's not super floppy.
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on May 8, 2018 12:55:34 GMT -7
As said, action and neck relief are huge to an acoustic. Medium gauge strings are also a “requirement” for full tone.
Also, make sure your tech works regularly on acoustics. To me, almost anyone can setup and adjust an electric, but an acoustic needs a “Jedi master.” These days my acoustics go to one tech and the electrics go to another.
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Post by wraparound (Steve) on May 8, 2018 14:39:04 GMT -7
You can check the length from the nut to the saddle and see if its in spec. I don't the measurements for your instruments but they are obtainable. A slight belly up of the bridge area can tip the saddle towards the nut and throw off the intonation. Ask your tech if he thinks the saddle is in the correct place by measurement. Mine found two of mine that were not so he made a new slot and filled the old one with rosewood so well you cant see it without a loupe.
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Post by The Bad Poodle Experience on May 9, 2018 8:38:36 GMT -7
Hey John, Both guitars sound bad??? Have you had your hands looked at? You didn't really say what was wrong with your guitars. "sounds awful" is a very general and subjective description. What was your tech's assessment of your problem? What was his approach to remediating the problem?
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Post by John E. on May 9, 2018 8:46:44 GMT -7
Hey John, Both guitars sound bad??? Have you had your hands looked at? You didn't really say what was wrong with your guitars. "sounds awful" is a very general and subjective description. What was your tech's assessment of your problem? What was his approach to remediating the problem? The Gibson SOUNDS amazing. Just will not stay in tune and the intonation is all over the place! The Martin just all of a sudden sounds weak and dead. It has medium gauge strings but still sounds like they're too light, maybe I just play too hard? I do tend to play EXTREMELY hard when playing electric so maybe I should lighten up a bit.
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Post by The Bad Poodle Experience on May 9, 2018 9:26:19 GMT -7
Hey John, Both guitars sound bad??? Have you had your hands looked at? You didn't really say what was wrong with your guitars. "sounds awful" is a very general and subjective description. What was your tech's assessment of your problem? What was his approach to remediating the problem? The Gibson SOUNDS amazing. Just will not stay in tune and the intonation is all over the place! The Martin just all of a sudden sounds weak and dead. It has medium gauge strings but still sounds like they're too light, maybe I just play too hard? I do tend to play EXTREMELY hard when playing electric so maybe I should lighten up a bit. well, lots of factors to consider with your Martin... from string gauge to scale length to body size to 12 v. 14 frets to the body. here's a good bit of info regarding that. www.premierguitar.com/articles/_Acoustic_Size_MattersI don't think of 000's as strummer guitars... they're really finger picking instruments. That could be part of your problem. as for your Gibson, the reason i asked about your tech's assessment is because any tech worth his salt would be able to identify a fix for intonation/tuning issues on your Gibson. and don't let anyone tell you "it's a gibson... it will never stay in tune". a good tech should definitely be taking your playing style into consideration when assessing how to fix your problem.
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Post by j4gitr (John) on May 9, 2018 16:28:35 GMT -7
As Poodle said about the 000, if I hit my 000-28 too hard or dig in too much it can start to fart out. I don't use a pick at all even when strumming. There's plenty of room for dynamics, but do try lightening up and see if it sounds better to you.
Likewise as he mentioned on the Gibson. One thing I notice if I've been away from my acoustic for a time I have to get used to the fretboard, and it may sound off until I acclimate. However that doesn't take but about ten minutes worth of movement all around the neck.
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Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on May 9, 2018 17:55:59 GMT -7
At the risk of asking the dumb question, are the strings on the Martin new? With acoustics, to me, fresh strings are mandatory to get good sound. When I was gigging for a living I changed acoustic strings every day. As soon as they start to corrode or get gunk on them , the sound deadens quickly.
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Post by gbowman on May 10, 2018 8:03:47 GMT -7
Long shot here - are you using a capo?
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Post by GuitarZ on May 11, 2018 15:23:30 GMT -7
I was reading this thread a few days back. I have to say it's been helpful. I have a Martin HD-28V. I have loved how it sounds since I first strummed it at the shop. It came with 13s and it just doesn't sound the same without them. However, I've been thinking a nice OOO would be great on the fingers and allow me a little more freedom when doing single note stuff. I strum reasonably hard. When I'm in the groove playing regularly, the 13s are still challenging, but definitely playable. After reading through this thread, I'm pretty sure I need to let the OOO dream go (even though the Mrs wanted to buy me one for my birthday next week ). So, thank you all! One other thought popped into my mind. I've had techs who also play guitar and happen to have a light touch. They love setting the action soooo low which doesn't help me at all. Do you need to try another tech?
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Post by gbowman on May 11, 2018 15:35:05 GMT -7
I have a friend with a bit of a thing for collecting Martin guitars. He plays pretty heavy and I play light. We both have different skills and approaches for right hand stuff. When he goes to buy a new guitar, I usually come along. We take turns playing the guitar, sometimes both playing guitars to get the "live" thing going. It is amazing how different each guitar sounds in each players hands. It's crazy hearing the guitar from "both sides". Next time I buy an acoustic instrument, I'll bring someone along as well...
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Post by Rhythmark on May 11, 2018 18:10:34 GMT -7
New strings- Is the nut and bridge bone? If plastic swap for a hard material. Set up is key too-
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Post by digs57 on May 11, 2018 22:04:40 GMT -7
new pegs?
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Post by John on May 12, 2018 9:34:29 GMT -7
New strings New strings New strings
Change them often. Phosphor bronze can last longer, but if you use 80/20's...they'll last just a few days.
80/20's are brighter and I only use them on 1 guitar. It's a little darker so it needs the brighter strings.
And if you play the Gibson...then switch to a OOO....yes, it could sound a little thin. But perhaps it's supposed to. An L4A has a big body...it's naturally going to have more bass and be more robust than a 000.
I think playability also effects a persons perception of an instrument. I've sometimes played one of my acoustics, thinking something's missing (just a little), or some magic is gone....or just a vibe that something's off...but I can't put my finger on it. Then I check the neck relief and realize the truss rod needs a slight adjustment. Then, bam...the magic is back. But it's back because it's easier to play.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 9:41:41 GMT -7
I use Elixers for acoustic now. My hands sweat in warm weather and Elixers last a lot longer, even when they've been banged on a good bit.
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Mar 14, 2019 19:15:24 GMT -7
I've played a lot of Martins that didn't do a lot for me. I bought a used CEO-6 (maybe 5) that was super dead and sounded like a whisper. They make great guitars, but not all of them and sometimes certain guitars do work for certain players. I went back and forth for years on 28 vs. 18. Different shops I liked one or the other better. Sometimes at the same shop and likely the same ones I played the last time was in had a different winner. If you aren't ready to move on from your Martin I like the suggestions about playing with your strings as a start. Took me years to dial in the best pick and string combo (normally I love Fender thin picks, but my Martin sounds great with the bull plastic thin Dunlop).
I got super lucky, Sweetwater was blowing out 00028's and I got a scratch and dent to boot (swirls on the pick guard. Now that the Adirondack top has loosened up it is a dream.
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Post by Christopher on Mar 15, 2019 2:31:11 GMT -7
Try a set of Monels. Tony Rice uses them and his guitar sounds like an acoustic hand cannon. I put a set on my archtop acoustic and it went from ok to WHOA-K. I like them. Definitely not a light acoustic string.
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Post by runninwiththerevil (Matthew) on Mar 26, 2019 19:02:50 GMT -7
I was reading this thread a few days back. I have to say it's been helpful. I have a Martin HD-28V. I have loved how it sounds since I first strummed it at the shop. It came with 13s and it just doesn't sound the same without them. However, I've been thinking a nice OOO would be great on the fingers and allow me a little more freedom when doing single note stuff. I strum reasonably hard. When I'm in the groove playing regularly, the 13s are still challenging, but definitely playable. After reading through this thread, I'm pretty sure I need to let the OOO dream go (even though the Mrs wanted to buy me one for my birthday next week ). So, thank you all! One other thought popped into my mind. I've had techs who also play guitar and happen to have a light touch. They love setting the action soooo low which doesn't help me at all. Do you need to try another tech? You have another birthday coming up, don't totally give up on a OOO. I have no problem if I beat on it in full out strums. It sounds great. I've really come to appreciate the smaller size. I had an SJ that was surprisingly mellow and soft sounding, but moved it on because it was just a little too big and impacted my strumming. I never consider a D too big, but I am in love with the smaller size on my OOO28 because it still sounds huge. I haven't played others, so it might be that mine will hold up to anything because it has an Adirondack top, I don't know. My bigger issue is that I really wish I ended up with an OM. I don't have huge hands, but I'm a fan of a little bit more room. I had a big crush on a John Mayer OM that sat at our GC forever. It got down to $2,400 before it went home with someone. I really wished I would have pulled the trigger on that, it sounded as good as my OOO, and is worth a ton more now.
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Post by John E. on Apr 4, 2019 12:28:49 GMT -7
So I forgot about this thread.. But, I ended up selling the Gibson cause I just could NOT get along with it, but I still have the Martin and I love it now! I learned to just play lighter and that seems to do the trick. And I've also learned to fingerpick a bit, and that OOO is great for that. I guess I was just playing too hard and it would fart out.
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Post by zpilot on Apr 10, 2019 22:18:39 GMT -7
Electrics and acoustics just require a different touch and technique. I have had so many electric players bring me their acoustics and want them setup with light gauge strings and action like their electric guitars. I tell them in advance that I can do that but they will not like the way it sounds.
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