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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Mar 13, 2018 14:03:51 GMT -7
Plus, you don't have to change all the tubes at once. Take a known good tube out of another amp and go down the line tube by tube.
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Mar 13, 2018 14:12:29 GMT -7
I just had the Maz 8 dialed in just like your Jr down in the basement playing clean with a tele into a 1x12 and am still ringing like a bell. Cops should be here any minute......
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Post by adamrmusic on Mar 13, 2018 14:52:52 GMT -7
Thank you all for confirming my suspicions. I'm actually a bit relieved that my amp isn't performing the way it's supposed to. I'm getting comparable results out of both of my cabinets so I'm betting it's something with the amp. I'll cycle good tubes through tomorrow and see if that fixes anything.
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Post by southmusic70 on Mar 13, 2018 17:43:41 GMT -7
Good for you!
Guys, I’ve never played a Maz18 (I’ve had 8 Z amps: Z28, Rativ2, Route 66, KT45, Ghia Anni, Therapy, Galaxie and Cure - still have the Rati and Cure; the Ghia Anni is for sale), but after the comments here, my interest in the Maz has been piqued.
This is the kind of exchange of information that makes this forum great.
Thanks, gentlemen.
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Post by wubberdubber on Mar 13, 2018 19:30:17 GMT -7
Have to agree that something isn't right there...sitting in front of my MAZ at those settings in a small room would be uncomfortably loud, to put it mildly. Not disparaging your tech, but it is possible he missed something, like a solder joint gone cold, or something not really "visible" that's affecting the signal. I don't know what your financial situation is, but if you can afford it, sending it to Doc for an update would probably get you back what would seem like a whole new, different amp.
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Post by adamrmusic on Mar 13, 2018 20:29:36 GMT -7
Thanks all for the input. I'll get a chance to swap tubes tomorrow. I realized the cabinets can be eliminated as a variable because my other amps work fine through them. I've noticed listening to recordings of the maz on YouTube, mine sounds comparatively dull and not as sparkly. I hope I can resolve the issue without sending it off. I'm always nervous shipping amps.
To Mike- I'm sorry I made a bad first impression but you insulted my playing before I even got a chance to tell you I didn't mean those statements as digs at your amps. I am trying really hard to like this amp, and I hope it's clear at this point the issue isn't between my ears. By "this doesn't hold its own to a Peavey", I meant that as an indicator of something being wrong because an amp of this caliber *should* sound much better than a Peavey when fully operational. I'm not looking for a participation trophy. Just to ask for help with my amp without having my lazy unfocused playing being ridiculed.
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Post by j4gitr (John) on Mar 13, 2018 20:33:08 GMT -7
I've kinda been looking on from afar at this thread. I too own a MAZ Jr. and find it more than adequate clean and mean for a variety of gigs, indoors and outdoors. It's pretty clear other owners feel the same way and have voiced the opinion, with which I concur, there is something wrong with your particular amp. My opinion - the amp is KILLER. Why not send it into headquarters and have them make it right. Their price is certainly more than reasonable. drzamps.com/support/mods-and-services/I realize you may have spent money at your tech and this seems like good money after bad. But rest assured the amp will be made right. If you sell it in the state it is in now. Likely you will be taking it back from the prospective buyer as it isn't right. You've owned it a year, so it's not likely you can go after the seller. Maybe your location rules this option out. I didn't see a location in your info or I overlooked it in this thread. If this has been stated prior please excuse me, I haven't been reading every piece of advice word for word. There are many here much more knowledgeable and helpful than me. For piece of mind, I think your best option is put it in the hands of those that built it. I don't see how you can go wrong.
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Post by adamrmusic on Mar 13, 2018 21:56:28 GMT -7
I've kinda been looking on from afar at this thread. I too own a MAZ Jr. and find it more than adequate clean and mean for a variety of gigs, indoors and outdoors. It's pretty clear other owners feel the same way and have voiced the opinion, with which I concur, there is something wrong with your particular amp. My opinion - the amp is KILLER. Why not send it into headquarters and have them make it right. Their price is certainly more than reasonable. drzamps.com/support/mods-and-services/I realize you may have spent money at your tech and this seems like good money after bad. But rest assured the amp will be made right. If you sell it in the state it is in now. Likely you will be taking it back from the prospective buyer as it isn't right. You've owned it a year, so it's not likely you can go after the seller. Maybe your location rules this option out. I didn't see a location in your info or I overlooked it in this thread. If this has been stated prior please excuse me, I haven't been reading every piece of advice word for word. There are many here much more knowledgeable and helpful than me. For piece of mind, I think your best option is put it in the hands of those that built it. I don't see how you can go wrong. Would definitely love to get the amp into the hands of qualified people at Dr. Z. I'm just very nervous trusting my amp in the hands of USPS/UPS/FedEx. There is one other thing I've noticed with the amp that might be worth mentioning. When I turn the power switch on, there is a bright flash from the power tubes that quickly fades back to a regular glow. Is this not supposed to happen?
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Post by purpletele on Mar 13, 2018 23:01:10 GMT -7
adamr,
Congrats, the initiation is usually much less challenging, so kudo's for hanging in there. Obviously that was a delicate issue with the group but it is apparent that you do have an issue with the amp.
This thread is a reminder to me that e mail and texting can be taken way out of context unless you make sure you are expressing your complete thoughts. I have had my emails taken out of context before and it is uncomfortable.
I would recommend taking at least three really good photos of the guts and then start a new thread titled, 'Questions on Maz 18 Power', or something to that effect.
Post the photos of the guts and the last video and then new thoughts and advice will filter in.
Maybe there is something in the gut shot that one of might see that your tech wasn't looking for, like a bulging filter cap or even a leaking cap.
There may be something sneaky like a fractured joint at a tube pin that we couldn't tell from the photos, you may also want to send a note to Don at the shop and see if he can offer troubleshooting steps to you and your local tech.
The best solution would be to ship the chassis to shop and discussing with Don and ruling out local options.
The tone of the amp is good but it seems like you have a major issue with power, which means there is a voltage issue.
The fact that it has good tone and the notes are being articulated would make me think tired or leaking filter caps, like an well used BF Fender that needs a cap job.
I hope it works out for you, my experience with Z Amps has been exemplary, and I have never had an issue with a Z Amp other than tubes, but they are basic electronics built like a WW II era piece of audio equipment, if they are well used then a part can be replaced and you are good to go for another couple of years.
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Post by mickey on Mar 14, 2018 1:03:39 GMT -7
That bright flash you mention when you first power up may be normal; I've had that twice recently with JJ el84s, had them tested and they're fine.
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Post by greenblues58 on Mar 14, 2018 1:47:03 GMT -7
Hope we have not all missed the obvious here. Have you tried a small patch cable in the effects loop to link send and return together as dirty connection and contacts here is a common issue. I have had it where tone and volume disappear along with intermittent volume fluctuations.
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Post by DRZ on Mar 14, 2018 4:03:11 GMT -7
Would definitely love to get the amp into the hands of qualified people at Dr. Z. I'm just very nervous trusting my amp in the hands of USPS/UPS/FedEx. There is one other thing I've noticed with the amp that might be worth mentioning. When I turn the power switch on, there is a bright flash from the power tubes that quickly fades back to a regular glow. Is this not supposed to happen? Adam, I do appreciate your persistence in trying to find what is wrong with your MAZ 18. I would be happy to personally check over your amp. Don't be concerned with shipping it is a head so get a sturdy 12X12X24 inch box , very common size, pack it up good and leave the tubes in place. Contact Don at repairs@drzamps.com request a RA form fill it out and send it in with your amp. It will be returned in a factory box w/ factory packing , hopefully working to your satisfaction. One thing , not trying to blame your guitar for the problem but , I'm not familiar with Duncan Jazz pick-ups but from their name I think dark/warm output. Also Duncan JB pick-ups aren't HI Gain pick-ups , but they are slightly over wound with a bit hotter output, so keep that in mind . Z
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Post by KeithA on Mar 14, 2018 5:56:22 GMT -7
Would definitely love to get the amp into the hands of qualified people at Dr. Z. I'm just very nervous trusting my amp in the hands of USPS/UPS/FedEx. There is one other thing I've noticed with the amp that might be worth mentioning. When I turn the power switch on, there is a bright flash from the power tubes that quickly fades back to a regular glow. Is this not supposed to happen? Adam, I do appreciate your persistence in trying to find what is wrong with your MAZ 18. I would be happy to personally check over your amp. Don't be concerned with shipping it is a head so get a sturdy 12X12X24 inch box , very common size, pack it up good and leave the tubes in place. Contact Don at repairs@drzamps.com request a RA form fill it out and send it in with your amp. It will be returned in a factory box w/ factory packing , hopefully working to your satisfaction. One thing , not trying to blame your guitar for the problem but , I'm not familiar with Duncan Jazz pick-ups but from their name I think dark/warm output. Also Duncan JB pick-ups aren't HI Gain pick-ups , but they are slightly over wound with a bit hotter output, so keep that in mind . Z ....and combined with the fact (if I read this thread correctly) that the speakers are G12T-75s could suck the sparkle/life out of some decent chime.
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Post by lowbudget on Mar 14, 2018 5:57:33 GMT -7
Would definitely love to get the amp into the hands of qualified people at Dr. Z. I'm just very nervous trusting my amp in the hands of USPS/UPS/FedEx. There is one other thing I've noticed with the amp that might be worth mentioning. When I turn the power switch on, there is a bright flash from the power tubes that quickly fades back to a regular glow. Is this not supposed to happen? Adam, I do appreciate your persistence in trying to find what is wrong with your MAZ 18. I would be happy to personally check over your amp. Don't be concerned with shipping it is a head so get a sturdy 12X12X24 inch box , very common size, pack it up good and leave the tubes in place. Contact Don at repairs@drzamps.com request a RA form fill it out and send it in with your amp. It will be returned in a factory box w/ factory packing , hopefully working to your satisfaction. One thing , not trying to blame your guitar for the problem but , I'm not familiar with Duncan Jazz pick-ups but from their name I think dark/warm output. Also Duncan JB pick-ups aren't HI Gain pick-ups , but they are slightly over wound with a bit hotter output, so keep that in mind . Z And there's your answer Adam. It won't get any better than this, I promise. And while I'm with you on shipping amps, just pack it up well and insure it. Pack it as if you know in advance it will likely drop off a conveyor 6 feet to the concrete floor. On return shipping, rest assured the Doc's factory boxes are designed to survive a nuclear holocaust. Yeah, a little trouble maybe but what is it worth to have the knowledge that the Doc personally looked at your amp? Priceless... And there's a reason this is the Doc's perennial bestseller. The Maz Jr. will come as close as it's possible to get to a true do-it-all amp. You may want other amps going forward but it's unlikely you'd ever need another amp. Plus, you get the added benefit of joining the most helpful and collegial brotherhood on the internet! Good luck with this.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Mar 14, 2018 6:18:43 GMT -7
I couldn't agree more. Doc will make the amp right for you, Adam. This thread was good for me because it got me really playing my Maz 18NR with very critical ears. I was trying to understand the problem you're having and I ended up loving mine more than ever. People refer to it as the "swiss army knife of amps" and it's really true; there are TONS of ways to set it up and get different flavors from it. Please do take Doc up on his offer. Send it in. You won't be sorry, guaranteed.
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Post by John on Mar 14, 2018 6:43:00 GMT -7
I only read most of the first page of posts...so here's my two cents worth having had 2 Maz Jrs..and used many different speakers with them: Using g12t75 speakers with the amp's cut and treble maxed out?? There's NO WAY this is going to sound good. We all have different ears, and hear things differently, but this combination is off the charts. (in a bad way) Most Maz Jr players have the cut somewhere down around 9-10 o'clock. You say you want more 'presence'. When you say that word to a guitar player, most will think the presence knob on a guitar amp...which controls the crispy ultra high end treble. But I'm willing to bet your definition of presence isn't ultra high end treble....rather it's more upper midrange and 'cut through the mix' type tone....right where the human hear hears best/most. And that's where your sh!tty speaker and amp tone setting are coming into play. That's a horrible speaker. I know Marshall put them in tons of 4x12's over the years, but those speakers are designed for the heavy metal crowd. They're really scooped (meaning less mids) and they're also only 97db. ...97db is a very inefficient speaker and it takes more amp power to drive this speaker...thus even LESS headroom. I think you're turning up the cut and treble in an attempt to get more 'upper mids'...and it's just not working. I would speculate the lack of mids from this speaker, along with the maxed cut & treble (which makes the amp to appear to have even LESS mids) is working against you. Turning up bass and/or treble is the same as turning down mids. (and vice versa) The guitar is a midrange instrument. Mids are where it's at...get nice mids, then use bass and treble (and cut) to taste. If you don't have an ear pleasing midrange to begin with...no amount of bass or treble adjustments will make up for it. Find some other guitar players with different speakers/cabinets. Try different combinations. When doing this, I suggest turning all the eq knobs to noon...and the cut around 9 for single coils...10-noon for humbuckers. And turn that master all the way up! I don't know if you stated whether your cabinet is open or closed back, but which ever it is...I would try to audition the same type of cabinet. If your cabinet is open back, try only other open backs. There is a BIG change in tone between open and closed backs. I say audition different speakers using the same type of cabinet so the difference in tone is because of the speakers...not the speakers AND cabinet. Also 'clean' sound is also subjective. One person's 'clean' is another person's overdrive. Getting a more efficient speaker will also help a LOT with headroom. (louder for the same amount of amp power) When a speaker/amp has poor mids, people want things LOUDER to try to hear the amp (ie: mids) more. My #1 choice would be this: wgsusa.com/gbIt's a greenback clone. It's much cheaper than a Celestion greenback, and the tone is the same. (and excellent build quality) Lots of lush mids. Lots of 'presence'...meaning clarity and 'up in the mix'....easier to hear and not muffled down in the mix and hard to hear. Others have suggested the G12H30...but the guys here know I don't like that speaker. It's scooped (meaning less mids, but more treble and bass) so it might not solve all your problems. There's also the Celestion V30. Which has a BIG spike in upper mids. Some like that, some don't. This big spike in upper mids really cuts through in a live band situation. A real 'in your face' tone...no problem hearing yourself. And it's 100db...which is really efficient (loud). But again, some don't like such a massive spike in upper mids. Try some other speakers before you make any decisions. However, it could be that you need a REALLY clean platform, and the Jr might not be the amp for you. But you've got some other experimenting to do first. (mainly...different speakers and a more 'traditional' tone knob settings.)
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Post by adamrmusic on Mar 14, 2018 9:39:19 GMT -7
I only read most of the first page of posts...so here's my two cents worth having had 2 Maz Jrs..and used many different speakers..... Thank you so much for the thorough reply. Good to know that about these speakers. Although given the comments here, I still think there's an underlying issue. Things like "that should be uncomfortably loud" vs. me standing in front of the amp with both volumes dimed. You're right, those cut/treble settings are ridiculous, but I'm still not getting the desired high end. Rolling the cut and treble back make the tone sound so muffled it's almost unusable. I'm about to try swapping tubes and if that doesn't work, send it to Dr. Z to get looked over.
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Post by adamrmusic on Mar 14, 2018 10:11:39 GMT -7
Hope we have not all missed the obvious here. Have you tried a small patch cable in the effects loop to link send and return together as dirty connection and contacts here is a common issue. I have had it where tone and volume disappear along with intermittent volume fluctuations. You win the prize. I plugged a patch cable into the effects loop and the amp got SIGNIFICANTLY louder. When I unplugged the patch cable there was a momentary drop in volume, and now the amp is louder without the patch cable in the effects loop. Good call!
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Post by "Z" Steve on Mar 14, 2018 10:25:31 GMT -7
After all of this I would suggest you get some DeOxit and spray a bit on a 1/4" jack and insert/remove a few times on each input. Then I would remove one tube at a time and spray the pins and repeat as you did the jack inputs - being careful not to bend the pins on the tubes. It appears oxidation may be a culprit as well. Glad you got it fixed!
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Post by DRZ on Mar 14, 2018 10:41:05 GMT -7
Hope we have not all missed the obvious here. Have you tried a small patch cable in the effects loop to link send and return together as dirty connection and contacts here is a common issue. I have had it where tone and volume disappear along with intermittent volume fluctuations. You win the prize. I plugged a patch cable into the effects loop and the amp got SIGNIFICANTLY louder. When I unplugged the patch cable there was a momentary drop in volume, and now the amp is louder without the patch cable in the effects loop. Good call! Huh , can I see a picture of the back panel. MAZ 18 NR's all had Effects Loop stock but pre ETL ( Horizontal input jacks ) Reverb MAZ 18's didn't have E/F loops standard. I believe some were special ordered that way, but not many. Glad you found the issue . Z
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Post by adamrmusic on Mar 14, 2018 10:57:34 GMT -7
You win the prize. I plugged a patch cable into the effects loop and the amp got SIGNIFICANTLY louder. When I unplugged the patch cable there was a momentary drop in volume, and now the amp is louder without the patch cable in the effects loop. Good call! Huh , can I see a picture of the back panel. MAZ 18 NR's all had Effects Loop stock but pre ETL ( Horizontal input jacks ) Reverb MAZ 18's didn't have E/F loops standard. I believe some were special ordered that way, but not many. Glad you found the issue . Z ibb.co/mgwP4c
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Post by DRZ on Mar 14, 2018 11:22:29 GMT -7
Thanks that is a rare Factory E/F loop on a Reverb 18 from 2007. Also maybe try a Sovtek 12AX7 LPS in position V5 the Phase Inverter, that will be cleaner and more HiFi then the mid heavy JJ 12AX7 that is in there now.
Also V3 your Reverb Driver should be a short plate 12AT7 / ECC 81, I can't tell the type of tube in V3 from the picture but it doesn't look right and the correct 12AT7 is important for good sound as it is the Reverb Driver as well as the Reverb summer.
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Post by adamrmusic on Mar 14, 2018 12:07:25 GMT -7
Thanks that is a rare Factory E/F loop on a Reverb 18 from 2007. Also maybe try a Sovtek 12AX7 LPS in position V5 the Phase Inverter, that will be cleaner and more HiFi then the mid heavy JJ 12AX7 that is in there now. Also V3 your Reverb Driver should be a short plate 12AT7 / ECC 81, I can't tell the type of tube in V3 from the picture but it doesn't look right and the correct 12AT7 is important for good sound as it is the Reverb Driver as well as the Reverb summer. The V3 tube is indeed a 12AT7. Putting the 12ax7 LPS back in V5 made the difference I was looking for. All of my upper mids are back. I'm getting a much better sound dialed in now. Thank you!!!!
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Post by headshrinker (Marc) on Mar 14, 2018 12:23:10 GMT -7
Glad you're up and running. Do clean things up with deoxit. Get the two input jacks while you are at it. You can leave a short jumper cable between the effects input and output jacks until you get them cleaned up. Once you do, if you don't use them, exercise them every so often by sticking a plug in and out a couple of times. A little deoxit on the plug when you do it never hurts. Sometimes it takes a bit while everyone here peruses the problem, but it's rare it doesn't get solved and if it doesn't a quick trip home to the mothership will do it.
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Post by bourgeoisboy (Josh) on Mar 14, 2018 19:48:50 GMT -7
Man, I'm so glad you stuck with it. I truly believe even when you get all of the kinks worked out with the Maz you would be amazed the difference a speaker swap would make. So many better options than the g12t-75, I promise.
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Post by digs57 on Mar 14, 2018 19:56:10 GMT -7
man what a thread!!!...deoxit on all contacts and don't be afraid to leave a lil...
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Post by adamrmusic on Mar 14, 2018 22:53:31 GMT -7
Man, I'm so glad you stuck with it. I truly believe even when you get all of the kinks worked out with the Maz you would be amazed the difference a speaker swap would make. So many better options than the g12t-75, I promise. I was thinking about that. What would you recommend? All I really looked into are creambacks and v30s
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Post by zpilot on Mar 15, 2018 3:57:29 GMT -7
When I'm not using the effects loop I still keep a short patch cable plugged into it and I unplug/plug it a few times once a month just to maintain a good contact there. Just a thought here: a good amp tech should have found that issue right away.
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Post by zpilot on Mar 15, 2018 4:01:51 GMT -7
I only read most of the first page of posts...so here's my two cents worth having had 2 Maz Jrs..and used many different speakers with them: Using g12t75 speakers with the amp's cut and treble maxed out?? There's NO WAY this is going to sound good. We all have different ears, and hear things differently, but this combination is off the charts. (in a bad way) Most Maz Jr players have the cut somewhere down around 9-10 o'clock. You say you want more 'presence'. When you say that word to a guitar player, most will think the presence knob on a guitar amp...which controls the crispy ultra high end treble. But I'm willing to bet your definition of presence isn't ultra high end treble....rather it's more upper midrange and 'cut through the mix' type tone....right where the human hear hears best/most. And that's where your sh!tty speaker and amp tone setting are coming into play. That's a horrible speaker. I know Marshall put them in tons of 4x12's over the years, but those speakers are designed for the heavy metal crowd. They're really scooped (meaning less mids) and they're also only 97db. ...97db is a very inefficient speaker and it takes more amp power to drive this speaker...thus even LESS headroom. I think you're turning up the cut and treble in an attempt to get more 'upper mids'...and it's just not working. I would speculate the lack of mids from this speaker, along with the maxed cut & treble (which makes the amp to appear to have even LESS mids) is working against you. Turning up bass and/or treble is the same as turning down mids. (and vice versa) The guitar is a midrange instrument. Mids are where it's at...get nice mids, then use bass and treble (and cut) to taste. If you don't have an ear pleasing midrange to begin with...no amount of bass or treble adjustments will make up for it. Find some other guitar players with different speakers/cabinets. Try different combinations. When doing this, I suggest turning all the eq knobs to noon...and the cut around 9 for single coils...10-noon for humbuckers. And turn that master all the way up! I don't know if you stated whether your cabinet is open or closed back, but which ever it is...I would try to audition the same type of cabinet. If your cabinet is open back, try only other open backs. There is a BIG change in tone between open and closed backs. I say audition different speakers using the same type of cabinet so the difference in tone is because of the speakers...not the speakers AND cabinet. Also 'clean' sound is also subjective. One person's 'clean' is another person's overdrive. Getting a more efficient speaker will also help a LOT with headroom. (louder for the same amount of amp power) When a speaker/amp has poor mids, people want things LOUDER to try to hear the amp (ie: mids) more. My #1 choice would be this: wgsusa.com/gbIt's a greenback clone. It's much cheaper than a Celestion greenback, and the tone is the same. (and excellent build quality) Lots of lush mids. Lots of 'presence'...meaning clarity and 'up in the mix'....easier to hear and not muffled down in the mix and hard to hear. Others have suggested the G12H30...but the guys here know I don't like that speaker. It's scooped (meaning less mids, but more treble and bass) so it might not solve all your problems. There's also the Celestion V30. Which has a BIG spike in upper mids. Some like that, some don't. This big spike in upper mids really cuts through in a live band situation. A real 'in your face' tone...no problem hearing yourself. And it's 100db...which is really efficient (loud). But again, some don't like such a massive spike in upper mids. Try some other speakers before you make any decisions. However, it could be that you need a REALLY clean platform, and the Jr might not be the amp for you. But you've got some other experimenting to do first. (mainly...different speakers and a more 'traditional' tone knob settings.) THIS is one of the best explanations concerning guitar amp/speaker tone I have ever read.
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Post by bourgeoisboy (Josh) on Mar 15, 2018 4:03:45 GMT -7
I was thinking about that. What would you recommend? All I really looked into are creambacks and v30s[/quote]
Is your cabinet open back or have the ability to be open back? ..And are you looking to get more of a British or American type sound from the amp?
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