|
Post by bourgeoisboy (Josh) on Mar 12, 2018 8:20:40 GMT -7
For Humbucker guitars I always use the "low" input, but with settings of Master at noon and Volume between 9-10 o'clock I get clean tones that vibrate my floors and I can feel in my chest. Plenty loud for me. Actually, I normally use a bakelite unless Im playing somewhere outdoors. I use a Celestion Gold speaker, for reference. BTW: Also, keep in mind this is a forum for Z amp enthusiasts. These amps are hand built by real people that take great pride in what they do. When you say things like the clean tones suck, etc... it could come across like telling a new mother she has an ugly baby. I hope it works out for you. For me, I'd be willing to compromise on the clean tone to have an amp that I can run on the edge of breakup and use my dirt pedals on low gain. I don't like the way squeaky clean amps sound with OD pedals doing all the work. Good luck.
|
|
|
Post by adamrmusic on Mar 12, 2018 8:25:51 GMT -7
For Humbucker guitars I always use the "low" input, but with settings of Master at noon and Volume between 9-10 o'clock I get clean tones that vibrate my floors and I can feel in my chest. Plenty loud for me. Actually, I normally use a bakelite unless Im playing somewhere outdoors. I use a Celestion Gold speaker, for reference. BTW: Also, keep in mind this is a forum for Z amp enthusiasts. These amps are hand built by real people that take great pride in what they do. When you say things like the clean tones suck, etc... it could come across like telling a new mother she has an ugly baby. I hope it works out for you. For me, I'd be willing to compromise on the clean tone to have an amp that I can run on the edge of breakup and use my dirt pedals on low gain. I don't like the way squeaky clean amps sound with OD pedals doing all the work. Good luck. When I said the clean tone sucked, I was saying that is an indicator of something being wrong with the amp, but clearly it wasn't understood that way. With mention of "participation trophies", I'm 100% selling this amp. Thanks, y'all.
|
|
|
Post by adamrmusic on Mar 12, 2018 8:33:54 GMT -7
For future reference, Doc, this is how you lose a customer for life.
|
|
|
Post by adamrmusic on Mar 12, 2018 8:36:46 GMT -7
why did you buy in the first place adam?...im just curious that your purchase has bought you to a unfavorable view of this amp...cant hold its own against a 300.00 peavey... Been doing this music business...for a long time (maybe to long)...I think people here want to help but...the experience level of your assessment is some what telling...not trying to be a "d*#k or shake you down...I (some here) just cant get there heads around peavey vs a hand wired amp... Maybe another day/time...right now its not your "cup o T"...time always brings about another view... I don't have any place locally I can try out boutique amps. I did extensive research and people rave about these. When mine arrived, I was pretty underwhelmed. You guys are tearing apart my lazy pajama phone video when I was just trying to give you an indication of the type of tones I'm getting before I even had my morning coffee. I've been playing for years. I'm no beginner, and how you perceive sound is separate from your playing anyway. People who don't play guitar still know good tone. I'm amazed the Peavey sounds just as good too, that's why I made the post asking if something is wrong with my amp. And Mike can't even read my post without taking that as a personal insult and insulting me. So I'm selling it. It's that easy. Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by DRZ on Mar 12, 2018 9:30:44 GMT -7
For future reference, Doc, this is how you lose a customer for life. Adam , thanks for your concern, but after 30 years of business I know how to keep a customer and how to blow one off. Also you bought your Z used, so I did not benefit from from your purchase , so you really aren't a customer, your a user. I know your the type that likes to get the last word, but spare me if I would have been treated like I wanted to I might have bought a new Z amp.
|
|
|
Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Mar 12, 2018 10:15:34 GMT -7
Regardless of all the other back and forth - I’m still struggling to understand how or why one would compare a 120w amp with four EL34’s to an 18w amp with two EL84’s. That’s like comparing a top fuel dragster to a ‘59 ‘Vette, and then wondering why the Vette doesn’t perform like the dragster. There’s just no meaningful comparison of the two.
And I’d take that Vette every time 😎
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 10:17:30 GMT -7
Sounds like you probably should have sold it about 360 days ago.
I realize there are a lot of tempting deals on the used amp market these days, but I still always try before I buy. You never know whose science project you're buying...
|
|
|
Post by adamrmusic on Mar 12, 2018 10:49:07 GMT -7
Thanks to all who gave helpful advice and remained civil. 👍
|
|
|
Post by gbowman on Mar 12, 2018 10:55:26 GMT -7
I'm a bit surprised that you can't get a clean at reasonable levels. So i would question the spec of the current speaker and would be curious about the states of the tubes. I have no problem with adequate volume from my Maz and I always play it clean/pedals. Like any amp, if you dime the tone stack it will get messy pretty fast, but if the tones are moderate and the master hi/vol low... should fly.
|
|
|
Post by mickey on Mar 12, 2018 16:13:05 GMT -7
This may or may not be helpful, but that guitar sounds quite upper-mid heavy, almost nasally to me, and I wouldn't expect that with the pickup selector in the middle, unless those pickups are pretty hot. If that is the case you'd certainly have a hard job getting the kind of clean tone I think you're looking for. I'm fortunate enough to own a Maz 38 and an 18; the 38 will give me loud clean tones all day if that's what I want, the 18 has a bit more hair to it but still with the volume down and the master up it will stay clean, and then when I dig in it responds to my picking pressure, and for me that's where the 18 watts scores over 38 watts, it does that thing at a more reasonable volume. Both will respond to high output pickups though. Have you tried maybe a Telecaster with the selector in the middle, on the same amp settings?
|
|
|
Post by adamrmusic on Mar 12, 2018 16:16:11 GMT -7
This may or may not be helpful, but that guitar sounds quite upper-mid heavy, almost nasally to me, and I wouldn't expect that with the pickup selector in the middle, unless those pickups are pretty hot. If that is the case you'd certainly have a hard job getting the kind of clean tone I think you're looking for. I'm fortunate enough to own a Maz 38 and an 18; the 38 will give me loud clean tones all day if that's what I want, the 18 has a bit more hair to it but still with the volume down and the master up it will stay clean, and then when I dig in it responds to my picking pressure, and for me that's where the 18 watts scores over 38 watts, it does that thing at a more reasonable volume. Both will respond to high output pickups though. Have you tried maybe a Telecaster with the selector in the middle, on the same amp settings? Yeah, but I lose even more volume that way. I actually had the master and preamp volume dimed the other day and it still wasn't as loud as I need to be occasionally. I think I just need a higher wattage amp.
|
|
|
Post by wubberdubber on Mar 12, 2018 17:16:18 GMT -7
Wellll.....not sure if adding my 2 cents will matter at this point, but my personal experience with my MAZ 18NR is that I usually set my amps pretty clean and use pedals for dirt and overdrive. I always set the master almost all the way up to achieve that and use the vol. to set stage volume. M/B/T controls rarely over 2 o'clock. Tubes and speakers can make a difference in headroom. I have a Remedy which is maybe a bit "cleaner" at lower volume, but that's a 40 watt amp with different power tubes, so that's expected. Are you SURE your speaker ohmage is correct and in-phase? I've owned a MAZ 38 which was somewhat louder and cleaner, but I've never had a "clean" problem with the 18, either as a combo or head. If you're looking for really-in-your-face-spanky-Fender-blackface cleans, maybe the MAZ EL84 thing just isn't the right one for what you're wanting, as it's a bit more juicy-Vox-y, kinda thing IMO.
|
|
|
Post by detuned on Mar 13, 2018 8:18:17 GMT -7
So, I don't have a Maz anymore, but I played one for a long time, and it definitely *can* take a while to find your sound - it's an extremely versatile amp that can make all sorts of sounds. This is true in general with lots of professional-level products, you have to learn to take what it gives you and make it yours. The Maz is great for this, because it has so many possibilities, but it *can* take a while to dial in.
In general, it should be able to do what you want it to. I used mine outdoors on a fairly big sage and no problem staying clean, and I like my cleans squeaky clean. Granted, I was using a strat with low output pickups, but with the Master set at 2 o'clock and the Pre around 10:30-11, I was clean and LOUD as you please.
My Maz was a 2X10, with the Doc's own design speakers. These are extremely efficient, and the 2X10 open back cab projects like a cannon.
So maybe, as you say, this amp just isn't for you - that's fair. But I say give it a chance. Look for a cab or speakers that deliver high efficiency, crank the Master up to 2 or so, and bring the Pre up just enough to make a decent clean. Then adjust the EQ with your ears - don't rely on your eyes. A lot of people automatically adjust the EQ to what they think will sound good based on other amps (like, *ahem* a Peavy XXX, for instance) and expect it to sound the same. The MAz EQ is VERY versatile, so play with it a lot. You may be surprised what a good sound "looks like". Then bring that Pre up until your ears ring. Adjust the EQ again as necessary if you need to.
And definitely try the Low input - that might help too.
But again, if it's not for you, it's not for you. Stuff happens. But bear in mind headroom isn't necessarily dictated by watts. I can stay cleaner louder and longer with my M12 than I ever could with my Maz. Its just what that amp does. And my Maz was a cleaner amp than my Remedy, go figure.
Good luck!
|
|
|
Post by adamrmusic on Mar 13, 2018 8:22:26 GMT -7
Wellll.....not sure if adding my 2 cents will matter at this point, but my personal experience with my MAZ 18NR is that I usually set my amps pretty clean and use pedals for dirt and overdrive. I always set the master almost all the way up to achieve that and use the vol. to set stage volume. M/B/T controls rarely over 2 o'clock. Tubes and speakers can make a difference in headroom. I have a Remedy which is maybe a bit "cleaner" at lower volume, but that's a 40 watt amp with different power tubes, so that's expected. Are you SURE your speaker ohmage is correct and in-phase? I've owned a MAZ 38 which was somewhat louder and cleaner, but I've never had a "clean" problem with the 18, either as a combo or head. If you're looking for really-in-your-face-spanky-Fender-blackface cleans, maybe the MAZ EL84 thing just isn't the right one for what you're wanting, as it's a bit more juicy-Vox-y, kinda thing IMO. I can't imagine I've purchased two cabs in a row that are wired wrong. To me it sounds kind of muffled. Like the highs aren't coming through the way they should. And I just got it gone over and the tech says everything is fine and tubes are new. So I'm not sure what to do. I'd post some more clips at your described settings to see if it sounds the same, but I'm not really up for that after my previous post got torn apart.
|
|
|
Post by adamrmusic on Mar 13, 2018 8:30:57 GMT -7
So, I don't have a Maz anymore, but I played one for a long time, and it definitely *can* take a while to find your sound - it's an extremely versatile amp that can make all sorts of sounds. This is true in general with lots of professional-level products, you have to learn to take what it gives you and make it yours. The Maz is great for this, because it has so many possibilities, but it *can* take a while to dial in. In general, it should be able to do what you want it to. I used mine outdoors on a fairly big sage and no problem staying clean, and I like my cleans squeaky clean. Granted, I was using a strat with low output pickups, but with the Master set at 2 o'clock and the Pre around 10:30-11, I was clean and LOUD as you please. My Maz was a 2X10, with the Doc's own design speakers. These are extremely efficient, and the 2X10 open back cab projects like a cannon. So maybe, as you say, this amp just isn't for you - that's fair. But I say give it a chance. Look for a cab or speakers that deliver high efficiency, crank the Master up to 2 or so, and bring the Pre up just enough to make a decent clean. Then adjust the EQ with your ears - don't rely on your eyes. A lot of people automatically adjust the EQ to what they think will sound good based on other amps (like, *ahem* a Peavy XXX, for instance) and expect it to sound the same. The MAz EQ is VERY versatile, so play with it a lot. You may be surprised what a good sound "looks like". Then bring that Pre up until your ears ring. Adjust the EQ again as necessary if you need to. And definitely try the Low input - that might help too. But again, if it's not for you, it's not for you. Stuff happens. But bear in mind headroom isn't necessarily dictated by watts. I can stay cleaner louder and longer with my M12 than I ever could with my Maz. Its just what that amp does. And my Maz was a cleaner amp than my Remedy, go figure. Good luck! . I appreciate the thorough response. My problem with the described method is that with master around two, the amp isn't what I consider stage volume til it's kinda hairy. Which makes me think something is up because you're describing your ears ringing.. mine can't get loud enough clean to make ears ring. Bringing preamp volume up to "good clean" results in bedroom levels. I have treble and cut maxed and I'm still looking for a chimier sound. I'd love to try some higher efficiency speakers but don't really have a way to do that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 8:35:10 GMT -7
The fact that your tech said everything was fine with the amp aside, it really sounds like there is something wrong with this particular MAZ Jr.
|
|
|
Post by gbowman on Mar 13, 2018 8:57:55 GMT -7
This may have been asked already, but have you swapped out tubes, especially power tubes, and run a test. I recently encountered an amp that displayed all the symptoms you are describing. The power tubes lit up and looked ok but one of them was toast. (i found out later the amp had hit the floor) So the amp would run, make some sound, but when turned up sounded wooly and grey.
|
|
|
Post by adamrmusic on Mar 13, 2018 9:20:24 GMT -7
The fact that your tech said everything was fine with the amp aside, it really sounds like there is something wrong with this particular MAZ Jr. I'd agree with that but I'm not sure where to go cause he's pretty much the only local amp guy. This may have been asked already, but have you swapped out tubes, especially power tubes, and run a test. I recently encountered an amp that displayed all the symptoms you are describing. The power tubes lit up and looked ok but one of them was toast. (i found out later the amp had hit the floor) So the amp would run, make some sound, but when turned up sounded wooly and grey. This is why it was at the tech. Got retubed and gone over.
|
|
|
Post by limenine on Mar 13, 2018 9:48:50 GMT -7
So I don't have my Maz at home (though tonight is music night, so I will be playing it today) - but I did try out a db app on my mini Z set as "clean" as my mini gets while still having volume. 112 open back cab with a Blue. I would trust the numbers Dave got with his Maz as he used a real meter, while mine was just an app on my iPod, but with the mini's volume at just shy of 9:00 I could play lightly with a nice clean and see mid to high 90's and a hard strumming would see peaks in the 115 area (those peaks were admittedly ~not~ clean ). My Maz is significantly louder and cleaner than my mini. Amp tech notwithstanding, I do think something is amiss with your Maz...
|
|
|
Post by lowbudget on Mar 13, 2018 9:49:49 GMT -7
The fact that your tech said everything was fine with the amp aside, it really sounds like there is something wrong with this particular MAZ Jr. I'd agree with that but I'm not sure where to go cause he's pretty much the only local amp guy. I've resisted chiming in on this thread up till now but thought maybe I could offer one suggestion. And this is based on me currently owning three Maz 18s, none of which exhibit the kind of problem you're describing. (I've owned several others as well without this problem.) Unless your expectations for an 18 watt amp are totally unrealistic (and honestly you don't sound like that kind of a guy), there has to be something wrong with the amp. I don't know anything about your particular speakers but they couldn't be that bad. So it's almost a certainty your local tech has missed something. And while I understand you might not want to go this route, I'd send the amp to Dr. Z headquarters for a going over. Whatever the cost (dollars, pride, time and trouble) the end result in my opinion would be worth it. You'd end up with an amp that does virtually anything you could ever ask of an amp or want one to do. I really think your search would be over. And if by some fluke there still wasn't quite enough clean headroom for you, find a 1x12 cab and load it with an Eminence Tonker. Problem solved!
|
|
|
Post by headshrinker (Marc) on Mar 13, 2018 9:58:23 GMT -7
Some tubes though they are new and good are out of spec. If the power tubes are early breakup, that is hot ones,you might get what you are experiencing. If it were me, I would get a known good 12AX7 and a new set of power tubes. First I would sub the good 12AX7 in each position, starting with the phase inverter, the one closest to the power tubes, then going to the first tube and working my way back to the phase inverter. Try the amp first, put the good 12AX7 in, see if it improves, if not, old tube back in, move on. If that doesn't do it, try the new power tubes. Be sure they are middle range tubes, not early breakup, not late, when you get them. If that doesn't do it, in my opinion, either there is something going on in the amp the tech missed, or an EL-84 amp, or this EL-84 amp isn't for you.
I have to echo what others have said, I have gotten clean tones, though I prefer dirtier, out of mine at decibel levels over 100. I've used my Maz outdoors without being miced with no problems folks hearing it. Actually played in an open outdoor area once, and some friends came to see us on the first break and said they heard us at their place about a mile away, so they came down. When I get miced, generally the sound guy is asking me to back off the volume. Maybe you folks have louder stage volume than most of us here and you just need a more powerful amp. I'm guessing all of us here have had amps that just didn't work for us, and we moved on.
|
|
|
Post by adamrmusic on Mar 13, 2018 10:46:46 GMT -7
I recorded another clip so you can see what I'm experiencing, and hopefully that I'm not just trying to stir up ****. Not playing anything fancy so please spare me criticisms of my playing
|
|
|
Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Mar 13, 2018 11:50:20 GMT -7
There are techs, and there are techs. Do you know exactly what power tubes he put in?
Before I’d go through the hassle of trying to sell the amp - which in it’s current state might be harder despite the Maz’s great reputation - I’d order 2 new EL84s from The Tube Store and install them and see what happens. You can get the recommended higher end matched EL84s for $70/pair, or a basic set of matched JJs for $26/pair. Outside of that sending it Dr Z repairs for a review and repair would be the answer.
From my experience, amp techs are like car mechanics - sometimes you get a good one, sometimes you don’t, and it can be hard to know which you have.
|
|
|
Post by adamrmusic on Mar 13, 2018 11:53:19 GMT -7
There are techs, and there are techs. Do you know exactly what power tubes he put in? Before I’d go through the hassle of trying to sell the amp - which in it’s current state might be harder despite the Maz’s great reputation - I’d order 2 new EL84s from The Tube Store and install them and see what happens. You can get the recommended higher end matched EL84s for $70/pair, or a basic set of matched JJs for $26/pair. Outside of that sending it Dr Z repairs for a review and repair would be the answer. From my experience, amp techs are like car mechanics - sometimes you get a good one, sometimes you don’t, and it can be hard to know which you have. He put in jj's. And he has a good reputation, so much so that all the local shops send amps to him for work.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 12:23:12 GMT -7
If all you are getting is bedroom volume out of those settings on your MAZ 18 something is wrong.
Here's another whacky question. Is that a closed back cabinet? Is there any chance that there's an attenuator inside that cabinet that you don't know about? I have 2 MAZ 18's and on that settings you show on your last video with any speakers I own either one of my amps would be so loud I couldn't hear the monitors at a club gig.
If there's no attenuator in your speaker cabinet then there's something wrong with your amp. If all the tubes test as good somebody must have modded that amp before you got it.
|
|
|
Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Mar 13, 2018 12:33:10 GMT -7
I still believe that it's likely you have a tube problem. With the lack of QC on today's tubes I have been burned a couple of times running down issues like yours. Just because a tube is brand new, out of the box, doesn't insure that it's a good tube. It can be frustrating but that's the nature of working with tube amps. You can build the best amp on the planet but very often the root of the problem ends up being tubes.
|
|
|
Post by daddyelmis (Greg) on Mar 13, 2018 12:55:35 GMT -7
[/quote] He put in jj's. And he has a good reputation, so much so that all the local shops send amps to him for work. [/quote]
I don’t have a Maz (I’ve got a therapy and a z28). But the consensus seems to be there’s something wrong with the amp. My tactic is always to try fixing the simple/cheap stuff first. There’s no doubt you could have bad power tube, notwithstanding that the tech put in new ones. If it were me, I’d gamble $26 on a could new power tubes from The Tube Store (you might even spring for the whole retube kit). If that’s it, it’s the cheapest fix (even if you go the full retube route); if not, you’ve got some spare tubes, you’re not out a lot, and you can then decide if you want to send it to get it fixed.
Your local tech is saying there’s nothing wrong, so I’d get a second opinion because clearly something is wrong - folks who have used this amp for a long time agree yours doesn’t sound right. So there’s either a hardware problem, a speaker problem (this strikes me as less likely because while the speaker can make a noticeable difference, I’ve not seen one do what your amp is doing unless the speaker is blown), or a “hidden” attenuator in the cabinet.
Good luck, and as others have said I wouldn’t give up on the amp until you can hear how it really sounds - it may still not be your cup of tea, but at least you’ll have a real test of the amp.
|
|
|
Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Mar 13, 2018 13:02:07 GMT -7
Agree with Dave totally. I would replace V1, V2, V4, V5, and the two output tubes. I’m not hearing any hum, so it’s likely not a supply problem. Also clean all of your jacks to include the loop.
|
|
|
Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Mar 13, 2018 13:06:12 GMT -7
And at that level of master and volume, you shouldn’t be able to take it in that room standing right in front of it. So something isn’t right, that would be punishingly loud.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 13:25:59 GMT -7
And at that level of master and volume, you shouldn’t be able to take it in that sized room. So something isn’t right, that would be punishingly loud. As they say.. "I heard that with my bad ear"
|
|