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Post by adamrmusic on Mar 9, 2018 18:31:10 GMT -7
I've had my maz 18 for about a year now and I always assumed the lack of headroom was due to power tubes going. I recently retubed it with jj's and had it gone over by a tech (because my reverb tank is picking up loud radio) and the new tubes don't make a difference. I would describe the clean tones on this amp I can get as extremely dark and lacking presence but the way other people have described it as too bright or having lots of headroom make me think I have a poorly matched cab or something. Cab is an avatar 212 with celestion g12t75s. With master and preamp volume both at noon, the amp is already breaking up, and that's the volume I play at home, much lower than stage volume. Is this amp just not made to be clean-clean? I thought "pedal platform" meant a clean amp that is great for using OD pedals but I didnt realize most people run it at edge of breakup. Bought it online without trying. I've got it up for sale now but with so little interest in it, I'd really like to find a way to get a clean tone that doesn't absolutely suck.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Mar 9, 2018 19:02:47 GMT -7
Crank the master up full. Then bring up the volume to control level, and try cutting the tone controls back a little bit. My Maz does start to get a little hair around 9:30 or 10:00, depending on how hot your V1 tube is. You can also try putting a 5751 or a 12AY7 in there (V1) to give a little more clean headroom. Mine's a 1x12 combo with a WGS ET-65 speaker.
It's strange that your Maz sounds dark with G12T75 speakers. I would think that it would be a real screamer with those. Is that cab open or closed back?
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Post by purpletele on Mar 9, 2018 19:09:44 GMT -7
adamr,
That is a surprising statement that you can't get a clean tone you like from a Maz 18. I don't know about that speaker but I would definitely look at another speaker quickly.
I liked my Maz 18 with a Celestion Cream but that is expensive and a little dark.
The Celestion Gold is really efficient and bright. It was too much for any of my needs.
The WGS G12 C/S is really really nice for the price.
The WGS ET 65 is one of my favorites.
The Celestion Creamback 12 65 M is a favorite with the British tone.
What does your tech think of the tone?
Also, if you want a really nice WGS G12A 8 Ohm I happen to be selling one.
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Post by adamrmusic on Mar 9, 2018 20:40:57 GMT -7
My tech thinks the amp sounds great, although he was playing it mostly with the preamp volume up to get an over driven sound. And I agree it sounds great that way but I need to have a clean tone. I do have another 212 cab with Eminence Speakers but the results are about the same. I actually have a much cheaper Peavey XXX that is meant for High Gain that I'm getting a better clean tone out of, which makes me think something is wrong, but the tech says it's fine. I tried diming the master volume in the past and I still reach a point of break up long before I reach an ideal clean stage volume. I had read somewhere that past noon, the master volume just adds saturation, so I was leaving it at the point where it starts to plateau in volume.
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Post by adamrmusic on Mar 9, 2018 20:42:34 GMT -7
To give you an idea of what I'm dealing with, I frequently go to turn up my treble and cut knobs and realize both are maxed.
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Post by limenine on Mar 9, 2018 21:09:37 GMT -7
There's a vid by another member right now here - I'd say it's a pretty fair representation of how mine sounds (or at least would if I could play that well )
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Post by adamrmusic on Mar 9, 2018 21:21:56 GMT -7
There's a vid by another member right now here - I'd say it's a pretty fair representation of how mine sounds (or at least would if I could play that well ) Sounds pretty close to mine with single coils and at low volume. But that's not really loud enough for what I need. Maybe I just have a different idea of adequate volume.
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Post by limenine on Mar 9, 2018 21:47:16 GMT -7
Well, that's a possibility - could be that an 18 watt "british-y" amp just doesn't suit your needs...
I don't know the specs for your speaker off the top of my head, but if you can find something with a 3 db higher efficiency rating that is effectively the same volume-wise as doubling your wattage.
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Post by limenine on Mar 9, 2018 21:58:22 GMT -7
I just looked on celestion's website. Unless I got yours wrong, it is actually a pretty low efficiency (97db) speaker with big low end and subdued highs: "Featured in the world's top selling 4x12 cabinet, the G12T-75 guitar speaker is a high powered rock player's dream.Built to meet the demands of high gain amplifiers, the G12T-75 combines a huge, tightly controlled low-end and aggressive mid-range with a softened top-end that adds a welcome sweetness to overdrive, distortion and aggressive upper harmonics. These are the characteristics that make the G12T-75 the weapon of choice for Yngwie Malmsteen"
Without looking at bunches of others, here's the description for the G12H-75 at 100db: "It's hard to escape the sound of the G12H, just listen to any Hendrix recording and chances are you'll be hearing a whole raft of them powering the guitar out of the mix.These faithful re-creations capture the unmistakeable mojo of late 60s rock guitar tones. The Heritage Series G12H (75) features a 75 c/s 'lead' cone for an alternative tonal balance that places a little less emphasis on bass frequencies. Choose this version if you prefer a tighter bottom end with a punchy upper mid-range and sparkling highs."
Less lows, more highs, and a bunch more volume!
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Post by adamrmusic on Mar 9, 2018 22:15:04 GMT -7
I just looked on celestion's website. Unless I got yours wrong, it is actually a pretty low efficiency (97db) speaker with big low end and subdued highs: "Featured in the world's top selling 4x12 cabinet, the G12T-75 guitar speaker is a high powered rock player's dream.Built to meet the demands of high gain amplifiers, the G12T-75 combines a huge, tightly controlled low-end and aggressive mid-range with a softened top-end that adds a welcome sweetness to overdrive, distortion and aggressive upper harmonics. These are the characteristics that make the G12T-75 the weapon of choice for Yngwie Malmsteen" Without looking at bunches of others, here's the description for the G12H-75 at 100db: "It's hard to escape the sound of the G12H, just listen to any Hendrix recording and chances are you'll be hearing a whole raft of them powering the guitar out of the mix.These faithful re-creations capture the unmistakeable mojo of late 60s rock guitar tones. The Heritage Series G12H (75) features a 75 c/s 'lead' cone for an alternative tonal balance that places a little less emphasis on bass frequencies. Choose this version if you prefer a tighter bottom end with a punchy upper mid-range and sparkling highs." Less lows, more highs, and a bunch more volume! I was looking at the specs for the speakers in my other can (Eminence man o war and Texas heat) and they're 99 and 101dB. I'm not sure what the character of those speakers is though. I'd like to take my amp to a store to try a bunch of cabs out but there aren't any stores around here that would take too kindly to that lol
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Post by digs57 on Mar 9, 2018 23:43:28 GMT -7
I go and play live with just amp and (most times) cant get it to breakup...at home vol...
Vol 10 Treble 10:30-11 mid 9 bass 11-1:00 cut 10 ish master 9-10
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Post by adamrmusic on Mar 9, 2018 23:55:50 GMT -7
I go and play live with just amp and cant get it to breakup...at home vol... Vol 10 Treble 10:30-11 mid 9 bass 11-1:00 cut 10 ish master 9-10 That's usually where I have it set for home playing (both volumes, anyway), but it starts to breakup after that, before it gets to what I call gig volume. I can record some clips tomorrow and see if my sounds are comparable or if it's an issue of speaker inefficiency, preamp tubes, and pickup output.
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Post by Maddog on Mar 10, 2018 5:36:20 GMT -7
First, what kind of guitar do you play, and how hot are the pups? Which input are you using? My strongest guess is you have a speaker swap in your near future. I liked the Celestion G12H 30 in my Maz jr.
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Post by buckeye on Mar 10, 2018 7:02:52 GMT -7
First, what kind of guitar do you play, and how hot are the pups? Which input are you using? My strongest guess is you have a speaker swap in your near future. I liked the Celestion G12H 30 in my Maz jr. +1000 on the G12h30. Plenty of cleans and volume. I actually switched to an Austin Speaker Works KTS-70 which is their version of the G12H30. To my ears sounds a bit smoother.
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Post by Chilly Gibbons (Todd T.) on Mar 10, 2018 8:46:49 GMT -7
You must be playing some large venues! A speaker change for sure. Two 8-ohm speakers wired in parallel and plugged into the 4-ohm output (or two 16-ohms in parallel for 8 total). And as mentioned earlier, something more efficient. If that isn’t working for you, the EZG-50 will give all of the headroom you can ask for, even with your current GT-12s. Usually folks are asking the opposite question - how can I get an overdriven sound and keep the cops away. At any rate, I find it impossible to get any tone out of the Maz that “absolutely sucks”. Good luck!
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Post by adamrmusic on Mar 10, 2018 12:39:26 GMT -7
First, what kind of guitar do you play, and how hot are the pups? A bunch of different guitars ranging from low output single coils to a het set of EMGs. Usually using something like a jb/jazz set. You must be playing some large venues! Quite the opposite. I play mostly small DIY venues, which means my clean tone has to be loud enough to not be mic'd.
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Post by adamrmusic on Mar 10, 2018 16:06:51 GMT -7
I'm playing in my bedroom right now and I installed a decibel meter app. The loudest the amp will go without breaking up is about 80 decibels. I'm not sure what my stage volume is other than I know it's too loud for a bedroom.
Here is me switching from the Maz to a Peavey XXX and the difference in tone is not at all a $1000 difference:
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 7:35:16 GMT -7
Can you try the amp with any other speakers at all?
Do you know if any mods were done to the amp?
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Post by digs57 on Mar 11, 2018 8:21:11 GMT -7
Man Ive had a lot peaveys...if your finding not a $1k...somethings amiss...quality alone is worth the upshot but...
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Post by DRZ on Mar 11, 2018 8:58:23 GMT -7
A quick lookup of the Peavy XXX, shows a 120 Watt 2x12 85 lb. combo that was built in the 2000's Now you're comparing it to the clean head room of a 18 watt amp, really. And your insulting comments about " up for sale with no interest" " clean tone that sucks " and " that is doesn't sound $1000.00 better then the Peavey " all the while requesting help .
I will be kind and state with your rudimentary playing skills I doubt you would be able to discern a good tone. And yes a 120 watt 2x12 combo will have more clean headroom then an EL 84 18 watt amp. Isn't this really obvious to you ? But you continue your sarcastic retorts , not really listening to what players with years of experience on that model have to say, to me looking for an argument.
We do try our best here to help new comers , but some people aren't really looking for help, they just want to vent on what they feel is poor used purchase they made, and looking for validation of their opinion. This kind of thing goes on on other forums, but it doesn't here.
BTW Happy belated Birthday
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 10:28:17 GMT -7
Yeah...not a fair comparison between your Peavey and the Maz. The Maz is a great tool if you know how to use it. I don’t think I’ve played any venue with both volumes at noon. Usually both knobs at ten o’clock is plenty loud and clean...I use pedals for my OD. I can get it to break up with my tele if I push it but when I do, I’m way too loud for the rooms I play and that includes at home. 18 watts is not meant to stay super clean...get a Fender Twin Reverb if you want LOUD and clean.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Mar 11, 2018 15:21:05 GMT -7
Well, this has been bugging me all day. I just set my Maz 18NR up. It's a 2016 combo with a WGS ET-65 speaker. Since I saw you using a Les Paul, the guitar is a stock 2002 Les Paul Std. Premiumplus (Burstbucker Pro pickups). Straight in to the "Low" input. Settings: Max Master, Volume at 7:30-8:00. Treble at 11:00, Mids at 1:00, Bass at 10:30, Cut at 10:30. With the meter about 3 feet from the speaker I was reading (SPL Meter is a Checkmate CM-140, it's a good meter) a SOLID 105 dB, peaking at 110. Beautiful, clear, bell tones. I even had the guitar volumes backed off a bit. My ears are ringing.
I don't have a problem getting a gorgeous clean, authoritive, loud tone. Tube amps develop tube problems. I'd put good money on a bet that you've got one or more bad ones. I have to really, really work at it to get that amp to sound bad. ANY amp can be made to sound bad. If you're going to ask for advice, don't get snarky.
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Post by limenine on Mar 11, 2018 16:08:55 GMT -7
Yeah - 80 db is really quiet. Something's wrong.
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Post by adamrmusic on Mar 12, 2018 6:28:43 GMT -7
A quick lookup of the Peavy XXX, shows a 120 Watt 2x12 85 lb. combo that was built in the 2000's Now you're comparing it to the clean head room of a 18 watt amp, really. And your insulting comments about " up for sale with no interest" " clean tone that sucks " and " that is doesn't sound $1000.00 better then the Peavey " all the while requesting help . I will be kind and state with your rudimentary playing skills I doubt you would be able to discern a good tone. And yes a 120 watt 2x12 combo will have more clean headroom then an EL 84 18 watt amp. Isn't this really obvious to you ? But you continue your sarcastic retorts , not really listening to what players with years of experience on that model have to say, to me looking for an argument. We do try our best here to help new comers , but some people aren't really looking for help, they just want to vent on what they feel is poor used purchase they made, and looking for validation of their opinion. This kind of thing goes on on other forums, but it doesn't here. BTW Happy belated Birthday Whoa, whoa.. Idk what bothered you about my comments or responses but I'm not trying to be anything but respectful. My comments are a reflection of frustration, having bought a pricey boutique amp and finding it doesn't hold its own against a $300 cheapo Peavey. After the unnecessary digs at my playing, I don't feel like giving this comment any more thought, but I'm definitely not the one with the attitude, bud. 60 watts or not, a $300 amp designed for high gain metal shouldn't have a better clean tone than a $1300 boutique amp at any volume.
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Post by adamrmusic on Mar 12, 2018 6:29:49 GMT -7
Yeah...not a fair comparison between your Peavey and the Maz. The Maz is a great tool if you know how to use it. I don’t think I’ve played any venue with both volumes at noon. Usually both knobs at ten o’clock is plenty loud and clean...I use pedals for my OD. I can get it to break up with my tele if I push it but when I do, I’m way too loud for the rooms I play and that includes at home. 18 watts is not meant to stay super clean...get a Fender Twin Reverb if you want LOUD and clean. I've been considering it but I don't love the way twins handle distortion. I usually play with both knobs around 10 for max headroom but that's like my home playing volume
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Post by adamrmusic on Mar 12, 2018 6:43:14 GMT -7
Well, this has been bugging me all day. I just set my Maz 18NR up. It's a 2016 combo with a WGS ET-65 speaker. Since I saw you using a Les Paul, the guitar is a stock 2002 Les Paul Std. Premiumplus (Burstbucker Pro pickups). Straight in to the "Low" input. Settings: Max Master, Volume at 7:30-8:00. Treble at 11:00, Mids at 1:00, Bass at 10:30, Cut at 10:30. With the meter about 3 feet from the speaker I was reading (SPL Meter is a Checkmate CM-140, it's a good meter) a SOLID 105 dB, peaking at 110. Beautiful, clear, bell tones. I even had the guitar volumes backed off a bit. My ears are ringing. I don't have a problem getting a gorgeous clean, authoritive, loud tone. Tube amps develop tube problems. I'd put good money on a bet that you've got one or more bad ones. I have to really, really work at it to get that amp to sound bad. ANY amp can be made to sound bad. If you're going to ask for advice, don't get snarky. I'm really confused about what I said that came off as snarky. Or like I'm not really looking for help. If I wanted to **** all over this amp, I wouldn't have bought it in the first place. This amp is *supposed* to be incredible. I'm upset that it's not, so something is obviously wrong. I had it gone over by my tech and he said it's fine so idk what my issue is.
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Post by adamrmusic on Mar 12, 2018 6:55:33 GMT -7
At any rate, the response here has kind of sealed the deal on me selling the amp. I'm not trying to own something from a company who will make fun of players who don't meet their standards of technical ability.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 7:03:14 GMT -7
Can you try the amp with any other speakers at all? Do you know if any mods were done to the amp?
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Post by adamrmusic on Mar 12, 2018 7:31:55 GMT -7
Can you try the amp with any other speakers at all? Do you know if any mods were done to the amp? All I have access to are my 2 cabs previously described, and the amp is unmodedded.
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Post by DRZ on Mar 12, 2018 8:08:43 GMT -7
I'm really confused about what I said that came off as snarky. Well lets see comments like: "find a way to get a clean tone that doesn't suck " and " I have it up for sale with little interest", and " it doesn't hold it's own to a $300.00 Peavy." Sure sounds snarky to me. And your pajama clad demo, has tentative picking, poor timing, and is out of tune, it was painful to sit through. I know your part of the " Participation Trophy " generation, but this is the real world, everyone has a strong opinion. As we say in my neighborhood " Don't start no **** , and there wont be no **** ". I had it gone over by my tech and he said it's fine so idk what my issue is. The issue is between your ears.
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