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Post by taylor335 on Aug 14, 2017 14:20:02 GMT -7
This is both a question and somewhat of a rave review, so please bear with me and my short novel. I've been a die-hard Marshall/EL34 amp user from the time I started playing guitar 13 years ago. However, I could never get a sound I really liked out of the FOH with a Marshall. That lead me to using a Bad Cat Hot Cat 30(Samson Era) for a number of years. It was a great amp, but unfortunately I sold that amp off when I decided to quit pursuing a music career a few years ago.
I'm back out and playing again and I decided to give Dr. Z a try. I had a Z Wreck for a short while, but it wasn't exactly what I was looking for. I never played it live, so I probably shouldn't have sold it without doing that first. Oh well. A good while back, when I wasn't playing live, I had a Mazerati head that was absolutely phenomenal (very stupid move selling that one), and now I have a Stang Ray. My singer was using the Ray for a while but a couple weeks ago he decided to go back to his Fender amp, and after a bad night of both stage and FOH tone with my Marshall at a huge venue, I decided I'd use the Ray at our next show.
All that being said, I went ahead and left my comfort zone and played the Ray at our show last weekend. I was VERY happy with my on-stage sound, and the FOH guys said that my tone was "thick and buttery". Hell, both guitar players in the headlining band said my tone was stellar, which made me really happy to hear.
One problem - that RAY is STUPID loud. I was running it with the volume on two into the LO-input with an Airbrake set to the first setting after "Bedroom". The guys in my band didn't complain, and the sound guys didn't mind either, but they did say if there were people standing right in front of the stage I would've blown their heads off. It's okay when we play 500+ capacity venues, but at 200-350 capacity places like we played last weekend it's a bit much.
ALL OF THAT BEING SAID, which Dr. Z would be a good alternative for smaller places?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2017 14:28:51 GMT -7
I think the Doc sent a couple M12's to Steve Miller (another Stang Ray user) for use on smaller gigs and TV?
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Post by taylor335 on Aug 14, 2017 17:13:26 GMT -7
I forgot about those! Some guys I know have suggested the Maz 18(NR) as well. Whatever I do it needs to be a head, that way I can use my speaker cab (Z Best 2X12).
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Post by Ridgeback on Aug 14, 2017 17:51:19 GMT -7
A less efficient cab and\or different speakers would be cheaper than a new amp and you could keep the Ray "goodness". I have not tried all of the Z models but nothing I played sounded like the Ray. That Z-Best is a loud mother. An attenuated Ray on two (not 2 o'clock) is barely breathing.
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Aug 14, 2017 18:04:49 GMT -7
Call me crazy, but I still think the cleans on a Prescription Junior Strength are the closest thing to a low-powered Stang Ray. The chimey-ness, the "swirl," the scooped EQ (not much midrange), it's all there... at least, in my head & ears it is. Bonus is the PPIMV master volume on the back--that is the kicker that'll get you everything from screamin' loud to whisper soft (no attenuator needed at all).
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Post by KeithA on Aug 14, 2017 18:20:28 GMT -7
Call me crazy, but I still think the cleans on a Prescription Junior Strength are the closest thing to a low-powered Stang Ray. The chimey-ness, the "swirl," the scooped EQ (not much midrange), it's all there... at least, in my head & ears it is. Bonus is the PPIMV master volume on the back--that is the kicker that'll get you everything from screamin' loud to whisper soft (no attenuator needed at all). Funny...I've always thought the same. I'm sure they would sound different side-by-side...but absent of a direct comparison, I think they would sound similar. Oddly enough, my RxJr and 212 Blues are set up in the Man Cave this week
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Post by taylor335 on Aug 14, 2017 19:53:46 GMT -7
Ridgeback - I'm running a Greenback and G12H30 in my Z Best, which I feel is a pretty inefficient speaker combo, especially compared to the stock V30 and G12H30.
Mark & KeithA - I've always been led to believe that RX (Jr and ES) are incredibly bright sounding amps, which is a characteristic that I tend to try and steer clear of. Am I wrong?
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Post by Ridgeback on Aug 14, 2017 21:41:29 GMT -7
I guess you have done what you can with speakers. I just based my comment on my experience with the Ray. I could play my Ray comfortably above 2 through a 1x12 Gold in my basement without an attenuator (no pedals) so something just didn't sound right in the OP. Good luck with your search.
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Post by KeithA on Aug 15, 2017 2:45:14 GMT -7
Ridgeback - I'm running a Greenback and G12H30 in my Z Best, which I feel is a pretty inefficient speaker combo, especially compared to the stock V30 and G12H30. Mark & KeithA - I've always been led to believe that RX (Jr and ES) are incredibly bright sounding amps, which is a characteristic that I tend to try and steer clear of. Am I wrong? I agree, the Rx Jr is on the brighter (or articulate) side, but I figure the Ray is not much different. I have never heard a Ray in person but from the good quality videos I've seen that's the way I see it. Here's a little noodling by our own MarkN.....this is pretty accurate for what I hear from the Jr.
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Post by Maddog on Aug 15, 2017 4:34:45 GMT -7
Would be cheaper and much quieter to switch to a 1x12 Dr Z convertible cab with open back with a 97 db Celestion Creamback. You're currently running 100db speakers in a directional cab. Will tear faces off the crowd directly in front of the Z Best for sure. Conv cab w back panel off will dispersethe sound all around you.
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Post by taylor335 on Aug 15, 2017 7:08:02 GMT -7
I guess you have done what you can with speakers. I just based my comment on my experience with the Ray. I could play my Ray comfortably above 2 through a 1x12 Gold in my basement without an attenuator (no pedals) so something just didn't sound right in the OP. Good luck with your search. Thank you for your input Ridgeback! Nice hound by the way, I myself am a hound lover too. My wife and I share our home with a Saluki and a Redbone Coonhound.
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Post by taylor335 on Aug 15, 2017 7:19:42 GMT -7
Would be cheaper and much quieter to switch to a 1x12 Dr Z convertible cab with open back with a 97 db Celestion Creamback. You're currently running 100db speakers in a directional cab. Will tear faces off the crowd directly in front of the Z Best for sure. Conv cab w back panel off will dispersethe sound all around you. Haha I hate Creambacks myself. I had a late 70s Marshall 4X12 with them in it and I felt it was obnoxiously bright and harsh. I plan on using the Z Best no matter what. I've gotten so use to to the way that cab sounds and reacts that I can't imagine playing anything else. Hell, I just sold the open back Dr. Z 2X12 that went with the Ray. Of course it had a Celestion Blue and Gold, so it was a different speaker setup as well, but it just didn't keep up like the Z Best does. I should also add that I'm in Texas Country/Red Dirt band. Not too country but not too rock, either. I play Humbuckers and every now and then I'll use the coiltap on one of my PRS guitars. I like my guitar sound to be thick and creamy.
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Post by Ridgeback on Aug 15, 2017 7:46:12 GMT -7
Love the Redbone pic. My avatar pic is my buddy Mojo who has been gone about 5 years now. I hope you get your amp\speaker thing worked out at minimal cost.
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Aug 15, 2017 8:53:58 GMT -7
Mark & KeithA - I've always been led to believe that RX (Jr and ES) are incredibly bright sounding amps, which is a characteristic that I tend to try and steer clear of. Am I wrong? Well honestly, I'd steered clear for a while because of the rumored excessive brightness, too. But with the right speaker--and, not being afraid to really turn down the Treble knob--I learned to really appreciate the Rx Jr for its killer tone at reasonable volumes. Pick a smaller-magnet British-style speaker, one with full mids but softer or rolled-off highs (think Greenback, G12-65, etc.) and it works great.
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Post by Norrin Radd on Aug 15, 2017 9:07:24 GMT -7
Bah! Just play it loud!
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Post by Maddog on Aug 15, 2017 9:42:41 GMT -7
Would be cheaper and much quieter to switch to a 1x12 Dr Z convertible cab with open back with a 97 db Celestion Creamback. You're currently running 100db speakers in a directional cab. Will tear faces off the crowd directly in front of the Z Best for sure. Conv cab w back panel off will dispersethe sound all around you. Haha I hate Creambacks myself. I had a late 70s Marshall 4X12 with them in it and I felt it was obnoxiously bright and harsh. I plan on using the Z Best no matter what. I've gotten so use to to the way that cab sounds and reacts that I can't imagine playing anything else. Hell, I just sold the open back Dr. Z 2X12 that went with the Ray. Of course it had a Celestion Blue and Gold, so it was a different speaker setup as well, but it just didn't keep up like the Z Best does. I should also add that I'm in Texas Country/Red Dirt band. Not too country but not too rock, either. I play Humbuckers and every now and then I'll use the coiltap on one of my PRS guitars. I like my guitar sound to be thick and creamy. Yeah, I totally understand....different strokes.... If you're set on using the Z-Best and just want a smaller (mini-Ray) amp, I'd go with an M-12. I play very similar music as you.... if you're ever over here from H-Town give me a shout....
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Post by taylor335 on Aug 15, 2017 9:58:27 GMT -7
Ridgeback - I'm running a Greenback and G12H30 in my Z Best, which I feel is a pretty inefficient speaker combo, especially compared to the stock V30 and G12H30. Mark & KeithA - I've always been led to believe that RX (Jr and ES) are incredibly bright sounding amps, which is a characteristic that I tend to try and steer clear of. Am I wrong? I agree, the Rx Jr is on the brighter (or articulate) side, but I figure the Ray is not much different. I have never heard a Ray in person but from the good quality videos I've seen that's the way I see it. Here's a little noodling by our own MarkN.....this is pretty accurate for what I hear from the Jr. See, I don't find the Ray bright at all. I was leery about snagging one because of some the stories/reviews I had read about it being bright, but I didn't get that vibe when I played the amp. Don't get me wrong, it can get bright(not ice-pick bright though), but I don't have any issues dialing that brightness out. It also takes pedals really well IMO, and I had read otherwise multiple times. Mark & KeithA - I've always been led to believe that RX (Jr and ES) are incredibly bright sounding amps, which is a characteristic that I tend to try and steer clear of. Am I wrong? Well honestly, I'd steered clear for a while because of the rumored excessive brightness, too. But with the right speaker--and, not being afraid to really turn down the Treble knob--I learned to really appreciate the Rx Jr for its killer tone at reasonable volumes. Pick a smaller-magnet British-style speaker, one with full mids but softer or rolled-off highs (think Greenback, G12-65, etc.) and it works great. I currently have a Greenback and G12H30 in my cab. I took the original V30 out and replaced it with that GB to to soften the treble content. I wonder if that would also tame the RX JR's high end as opposed to the popular Alnico Blue or Gold.
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Post by taylor335 on Aug 15, 2017 10:00:01 GMT -7
Haha I hate Creambacks myself. I had a late 70s Marshall 4X12 with them in it and I felt it was obnoxiously bright and harsh. I plan on using the Z Best no matter what. I've gotten so use to to the way that cab sounds and reacts that I can't imagine playing anything else. Hell, I just sold the open back Dr. Z 2X12 that went with the Ray. Of course it had a Celestion Blue and Gold, so it was a different speaker setup as well, but it just didn't keep up like the Z Best does. I should also add that I'm in Texas Country/Red Dirt band. Not too country but not too rock, either. I play Humbuckers and every now and then I'll use the coiltap on one of my PRS guitars. I like my guitar sound to be thick and creamy. Yeah, I totally understand....different strokes.... If you're set on using the Z-Best and just want a smaller (mini-Ray) amp, I'd go with an M-12. I play very similar music as you.... if you're ever over here from H-Town give me a shout.... No sh*t! I'm in NW Houston, Tomball to be exact.
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Post by Maddog on Aug 15, 2017 10:02:19 GMT -7
Yeah, I totally understand....different strokes.... If you're set on using the Z-Best and just want a smaller (mini-Ray) amp, I'd go with an M-12. I play very similar music as you.... if you're ever over here from H-Town give me a shout.... No sh*t! I'm in NW Houston, Tomball to be exact. That's a great area! I'm in Boerne...
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Post by taylor335 on Aug 15, 2017 10:05:30 GMT -7
No sh*t! I'm in NW Houston, Tomball to be exact. That's a great area! I'm in Boerne... That's not near Houston, is it? I thought that was out a good ways...
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Post by Maddog on Aug 15, 2017 10:11:20 GMT -7
It's North San Antonio about 2 1/2 hours from Tomball.....That's why I said, "if you're ever over here from H-Town...."
I'll buy you a beer and a taco, brother!
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Post by taylor335 on Aug 15, 2017 10:37:23 GMT -7
It's North San Antonio about 2 1/2 hours from Tomball.....That's why I said, "if you're ever over here from H-Town...." I'll buy you a beer and a taco, brother! Ah, I misunderstand ya then. That sounds like a plan! I'm trying to spread out with my band, so whenever we make it out that way I'll let you know!
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Post by John on Aug 15, 2017 17:02:29 GMT -7
I'm only a day late to this party and already there's lots of responses. I've been down this road so many times...
I've had TWO stangrays. Glorious amps...but really loud and really clean. And if you're not careful....REAL bright. Maybe not with humbuckers, but I was using a tele...and it was bright. The first one was a 1x12 combo with a gold. The gold is a loud 100db speaker. VERY loud amp. The second 'ray was a head and I used it with a 97db creamback. MUCH better....
Here's some options based on what I know, and what's already been said:
1) Get rid of that G12H in the Zbest. Put another greenback in there. The G12H is alright when it's paired with the V30 for the stock zbest. But anything else, or by itself?...get rid of it. It's the WORST speaker for the 'ray. The 'ray is a mid scooped amp. The g12H is a mid scooped speaker. Put the two of them together and there's no mids at ALL. (Believe me...I tried it) The 'ray requires a mid heavy speaker. Greenbacks are 98db. G12H's are 100db speakers. Significantly louder than a greenback. Most likely your H is the dominate tone because it's a louder speaker. (But you're probably hearing the greenbacks lush mids, because the H doesn't have any)
The Zbest is a very directional cabinet. Those types of cabinets are meant for big stages. In clubs, they'll blast where they're pointing, but the other side of the club won't hear much.
2) Ditch both speakers and put in two "Heritage" greenbacks. They're only 96db speakers. VERY inefficient. (I had two in my zbest) The Heritage greenbacks are considerably more money than a regular GB, but you're buying 2db less loudness. This will really reduce the volume. (Also, the celestion EVH is the SAME speaker as the Heritage....the only difference is that dumb VanHalen striped magnet cover....but they're a lot cheaper than the Heritage)
3) Get a different amp. Several would be in the running:
A) Rxjr B) M12 (Steve Miller used one for small shows to replace his Stangray) C) Maz Jr with a 5751 tube in V1. I did this and I was very surprised at the similarity I could get to a Stangray. (And I was A/B-ing them next to each other. The Maz was a little more compressed (good or bad depending on what you want) and the bottom end was not as firm. (the 'ray is known for a very firm bottom) D) Ghia E) Cure
All the amps above will sound great and will be 'ray like clean.....at low volumes! If you start cranking them up, they'll start overdriving.
Also, think about two amps...one for small stages. Then for the big gigs, pull out the 'ray and the Zbest. I had a little 1x10 Ghia for club gigs, but a big Remedy with a Z-best for big shows.
I'm probably babbling....
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Post by taylor335 on Aug 15, 2017 21:15:02 GMT -7
I'm only a day late to this party and already there's lots of responses. I've been down this road so many times... I've had TWO stangrays. Glorious amps...but really loud and really clean. And if you're not careful....REAL bright. Maybe not with humbuckers, but I was using a tele...and it was bright. The first one was a 1x12 combo with a gold. The gold is a loud 100db speaker. VERY loud amp. The second 'ray was a head and I used it with a 97db creamback. MUCH better.... Here's some options based on what I know, and what's already been said: 1) Get rid of that G12H in the Zbest. Put another greenback in there. The G12H is alright when it's paired with the V30 for the stock zbest. But anything else, or by itself?...get rid of it. It's the WORST speaker for the 'ray. The 'ray is a mid scooped amp. The g12H is a mid scooped speaker. Put the two of them together and there's no mids at ALL. (Believe me...I tried it) The 'ray requires a mid heavy speaker. Greenbacks are 98db. G12H's are 100db speakers. Significantly louder than a greenback. Most likely your H is the dominate tone because it's a louder speaker. (But you're probably hearing the greenbacks lush mids, because the H doesn't have any) The Zbest is a very directional cabinet. Those types of cabinets are meant for big stages. In clubs, they'll blast where they're pointing, but the other side of the club won't hear much. 2) Ditch both speakers and put in two "Heritage" greenbacks. They're only 96db speakers. VERY inefficient. (I had two in my zbest) The Heritage greenbacks are considerably more money than a regular GB, but you're buying 2db less loudness. This will really reduce the volume. (Also, the celestion EVH is the SAME speaker as the Heritage....the only difference is that dumb VanHalen striped magnet cover....but they're a lot cheaper than the Heritage) 3) Get a different amp. Several would be in the running: A) Rxjr B) M12 (Steve Miller used one for small shows to replace his Stangray) C) Maz Jr with a 5751 tube in V1. I did this and I was very surprised at the similarity I could get to a Stangray. (And I was A/B-ing them next to each other. The Maz was a little more compressed (good or bad depending on what you want) and the bottom end was not as firm. (the 'ray is known for a very firm bottom) D) Ghia E) Cure All the amps above will sound great and will be 'ray like clean.....at low volumes! If you start cranking them up, they'll start overdriving. Also, think about two amps...one for small stages. Then for the big gigs, pull out the 'ray and the Zbest. I had a little 1x10 Ghia for club gigs, but a big Remedy with a Z-best for big shows. I'm probably babbling.... I have no problems with my Ray tonally. Matter of fact, I'' very happy with it. I'm always mic'd and I mic the Greenback with a Cascade Fathead ribbon mic, so unlike what seems to be the majority, I have no midrange issues at all. I'm gonna look into the M12, Maz 18 NR, or possibly the Cure. I'm not a big fan of the Ghia myself, too grainy for my tastes. Thanks for the input!
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Post by pcns on Aug 17, 2017 18:24:31 GMT -7
Call me crazy, but I still think the cleans on a Prescription Junior Strength are the closest thing to a low-powered Stang Ray. The chimey-ness, the "swirl," the scooped EQ (not much midrange), it's all there... at least, in my head & ears it is. Bonus is the PPIMV master volume on the back--that is the kicker that'll get you everything from screamin' loud to whisper soft (no attenuator needed at all). Funny...I've always thought the same. I'm sure they would sound different side-by-side...but absent of a direct comparison, I think they would sound similar. Oddly enough, my RxJr and 212 Blues are set up in the Man Cave this week He he, I will let you know what I think of the RX Jr after Mini Fest
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Post by KeithA on Aug 18, 2017 20:41:07 GMT -7
Jim (jimiata) came a long way to try this Rx Jr
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