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Post by chowdown on Jun 5, 2017 21:21:43 GMT -7
Hi All! I'm a first time poster and also a first time Z owner 8) I picked up my Cure several weeks ago as it seemed like the perfect small grab and go amp for both home use and small gigs. There's a lot I like about the amp - especially the level control! Makes it easy to get a consistent tone at any volume. I can go from super quiet home use to a gig by only tweaking 1 knob Portability wise the Cure is amazing, and the amp also responds really well to pedals in general. One thing I've come to realize is that I'm really struggling with the character of the mids in this amp. I play single coils in a Fender Mustang primarily (or Jazz master) and with both guitars I find that the sound of the top 3 or 4 strings especially is too "spanky" or "honky" or "snappy" or even fizzy at almost all settings, especially when playing with more aggressive pick attack. I find the amp actually sounds best with the mids turned all the way off. Bringing in any mids at all tends to emphasize more of this spankiness. It's very weird because this is not something that I've noticed in any of the clips I listened to online prior to purchase. What I'd really like to get out of this amp is a really nice full mellow Fender blackface kind of sound on my neck pickup that is mostly clean with just a little bit of drive when I dig in. I did try the amp with my friends closed back Dr Z 2x10 (z10s i believe) cab and that seemed to help but I still couldn't get that type of sound. He has a Route 66 and when I played that through the same 2x10 cab (same guitar and everything else) I found the sound had none of the spanky mid character that I'm talking about (it sounded great). I was hoping to record some tracks that day with the Cure but we had to switch to the Route 66 because we couldn't dial out the spankiness. My friend that I was recording with who owns the 66 described the amp as "not clear" or sounding like it "had a cold" :S I feel like I've fiddled endlessly with settings trying to dial out this type of weird fizzy character and so far the setting that seems to get rid of this the most (but not totally) is: Vol: Noonish, Master: 3 o clock, Treble: 1 o clock, Mids: Totally off, Bass: 3 o clock, Level: To taste Everyone around here seems to talk about getting great blackface tones of their Cure but I'm just really struggling :S These clips below sound amazing - this is the tone I'm trying to get (I believe this was posted by a forum member here, props!) but I can't seem to get this type of tone at all and it looks like he even has mids around 9 o clock or noon without getting any of this fizzy mid character I've been experiencing. All of his Cure clips sound amazing! Does anyone have any ideas? Could it be a subtle issue with one of the tubes or something? It seems to output a normal amount of volume but I have noticed that it gets extremely hot, relative to other tube amps I've used. Thanks everyone!
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Post by DRZ on Jun 6, 2017 3:24:32 GMT -7
What is the serial number? And were did you buy it? Z
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Post by 2Cents on Jun 6, 2017 4:22:36 GMT -7
The 2-videos you posted are by Z-Talk member Fuzzy Simpleton; he has many more on You Tube.
Best of luck with your ‘Spanky or Fizzy Mids Mystery’; you will find many remarkably talented, knowledgeable, experienced, and helpful individuals here—Including the Doc himself.
I was busy writing this response while the Doc replied. How’s that for Customer Service?
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Post by lowbudget on Jun 6, 2017 5:29:28 GMT -7
Hi All! I'm a first time poster and also a first time Z owner 8) I picked up my Cure several weeks ago as it seemed like the perfect small grab and go amp for both home use and small gigs. There's a lot I like about the amp - especially the level control! Makes it easy to get a consistent tone at any volume. I can go from super quiet home use to a gig by only tweaking 1 knob Portability wise the Cure is amazing, and the amp also responds really well to pedals in general. One thing I've come to realize is that I'm really struggling with the character of the mids in this amp. I play single coils in a Fender Mustang primarily (or Jazz master) and with both guitars I find that the sound of the top 3 or 4 strings especially is too "spanky" or "honky" or "snappy" or even fizzy at almost all settings, especially when playing with more aggressive pick attack. I find the amp actually sounds best with the mids turned all the way off. Bringing in any mids at all tends to emphasize more of this spankiness. It's very weird because this is not something that I've noticed in any of the clips I listened to online prior to purchase. What I'd really like to get out of this amp is a really nice full mellow Fender blackface kind of sound on my neck pickup that is mostly clean with just a little bit of drive when I dig in. I did try the amp with my friends closed back Dr Z 2x10 (z10s i believe) cab and that seemed to help but I still couldn't get that type of sound. He has a Route 66 and when I played that through the same 2x10 cab (same guitar and everything else) I found the sound had none of the spanky mid character that I'm talking about (it sounded great). I was hoping to record some tracks that day with the Cure but we had to switch to the Route 66 because we couldn't dial out the spankiness. My friend that I was recording with who owns the 66 described the amp as "not clear" or sounding like it "had a cold" :S I feel like I've fiddled endlessly with settings trying to dial out this type of weird fizzy character and so far the setting that seems to get rid of this the most (but not totally) is: Vol: Noonish, Master: 3 o clock, Treble: 1 o clock, Mids: Totally off, Bass: 3 o clock, Level: To taste Everyone around here seems to talk about getting great blackface tones of their Cure but I'm just really struggling :S These clips below sound amazing - this is the tone I'm trying to get (I believe this was posted by a forum member here, props!) but I can't seem to get this type of tone at all and it looks like he even has mids around 9 o clock or noon without getting any of this fizzy mid character I've been experiencing. All of his Cure clips sound amazing! Does anyone have any ideas? Could it be a subtle issue with one of the tubes or something? It seems to output a normal amount of volume but I have noticed that it gets extremely hot, relative to other tube amps I've used. Thanks everyone! Mine seems to get a little hotter than my other Zs too, but it sounds fine otherwise so I just assumed that was part of the deal?
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Post by chowdown on Jun 6, 2017 5:32:05 GMT -7
Hey Doc! Wow that was really fast, I really wasn't expecting the Doc himself to chime in here, especially that quickly haha. I bought the amp from Long and Mcquade music in Toronto (Bloor st location) and the S/N is BB-41046. It was brand new and they unboxed it right in front of me. Thanks!
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jwmanz
Junior Member
Posts: 50
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Post by jwmanz on Jun 6, 2017 6:21:06 GMT -7
I hope you are able to find an answer. I have only had my Cure since Friday, but playing through my Tele with both the mids up to 2:00 and all the way off I haven't had any issues. Sorry you are having an issue. The fact that Dr. Z himself responded right away shows that he's dedicated helping you solve your issue. That type of service is the reason why I went with this amp as my first boutique amp.
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Post by Faze on Jun 6, 2017 8:43:30 GMT -7
Try the master all the way up Volume at 2 Treble at 1-2 Mids off Bass at -1-2 Level to suit the room Engage the we boost st 1/2 way
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Post by prspastor on Jun 14, 2017 5:18:41 GMT -7
My first guess would be a tube. In my pre-Dr. Z days, I had a Matchless amp that had similar problems. It was really a mystery to me because mine did not sound like the one sitting at Wilcutts. I exchanged a preamp tube and voila! The amp sounded better. My guess is that the tube had gone bad or became damaged in transit. Perhaps try exchanging preamp tubes one at a time to see if that helps. Don't do them all at once. Then if that doesn't help, change out the power tubes with another matched pair. Good luck-but it will work out. Doc is rock solid in his help.
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Post by nmz on Jun 14, 2017 5:23:33 GMT -7
I ran my Cure with the mids between 9 and 11.
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Post by mickey on Jun 14, 2017 14:52:47 GMT -7
Trust the Doc, even here in the UK I've had experience of how committed he is to his products and his customers. That's partly why I have three Z amps, another reason is they sound so good. Go with what he suggests. I got my Cure just a few weeks ago, and I have to say I don't hear anything like you describe. I tend to agree with prspastor and suspect a tube. Just because the amp is new it doesn't mean you can't have a faulty tube; indeed I just had to replace the ECC81 in my Cure as it had some filament rattle. The amp is fine now, and sounds great; mids are generally between 10 and 1 o' clock.
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Post by chowdown on Jun 14, 2017 15:23:51 GMT -7
Trust the Doc, even here in the UK I've had experience of how committed he is to his products and his customers. That's partly why I have three Z amps, another reason is they sound so good. Go with what he suggests. I got my Cure just a few weeks ago, and I have to say I don't hear anything like you describe. I tend to agree with prspastor and suspect a tube. Just because the amp is new it doesn't mean you can't have a faulty tube; indeed I just had to replace the ECC81 in my Cure as it had some filament rattle. The amp is fine now, and sounds great; mids are generally between 10 and 1 o' clock. Ok I haven't heard anything back from the Doc yet on what he suggests but I'm interested to try some tube swapping. When you swapped your tube with filament rattle what kind of a difference did you found it made tone wise? I think I'll just try some new JJ tubes that it comes with. Prspastor recommends swapping them 1 at a time, Should I worry at all about swapping in a single tube that is "unmatched" with the set thats currently in there (for pre or power amp)? Anything else to keep in mind? Thanks!
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Post by DRZ on Jun 14, 2017 15:24:21 GMT -7
Wouldn't you say that these two descriptions ( Spanky or Fizzy mids ) are diametrically opposing ? Spanky = Dynamic & Punchy Fizzy = Congested & Unclear
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Post by chowdown on Jun 14, 2017 15:43:07 GMT -7
Haha you might be right. Sorry I'm not very well versed in the guitar tone terminology. Based on your description I would have to go with fizzy then.
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Post by mickey on Jun 15, 2017 0:26:15 GMT -7
You can change preamp tubes one at a time with no problems. Power amp tubes have to be a matched pair though, so change them for a new matched pair. When I changed my ECC81 there was no tonal difference that I could hear, but I wasn't expecting any. You might notice a difference if you change either of the ECC83s though, particularly V1.
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Post by DRZ on Jun 15, 2017 6:20:24 GMT -7
Haha you might be right. Sorry I'm not very well versed in the guitar tone terminology. Based on your description I would have to go with fizzy then. Well your description is all I have to go on in an attempt to diagnose your issue. And honestly your written description leaves a lot to be desired for me to try and solve . Also no where do we describe the CURE as being a BLACFACE copy, actually more TWEED like do to its Triad OT. And the sample you give as your deciding factor , though it is a nice demo of the Z Verb qualities, it shows very little of the CURE sounds. It is a Z Verb demo with a little CURE mixed in, again I like the demo, just not the end all for picking the CURE. We have excellent demo's on our site that show the many sides of the CURE. Honestly if your looking for a Scooped Blackface tone , there are many other amps, besides real Fender combo's to choose from. To try and help you get a closer tone to what you want from the CURE experiment with V2 ( the Tone Stack Driver ) , try maybe a reissue Mullard 12AX7 or a reissue Tung-Sol 12AX7 in place of the thicker , lower mid based JJ 12AX7. Just realize in your quest for your PERFECT mid range response you will be sacrificing the great adjustable Volume Level control , a light weight 1x12 package, a Foot switchable boost function, in a very affordable USA made high quality handbuilt amp.
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Post by simpleton on Jun 16, 2017 9:48:42 GMT -7
The Z Verb really does soften the attack with the Cure. Reverb ran through the effects loop might help get a bit more Black Face....I'm no expert on Blackface.....to me that implies a nice brighter clean sound with minimal gain....top and bottom heavy.
The MIDS on the Cure seem to be the Tweed side of Fender. Tubes can effect the sizzle in notes. Pick attack can too. Using my fingers can ease up the attack and soften the response. Low output volume increases sizzle...when gain is high especially.
Lastly....trying different speakers might taper the sound more to your ear if your close enough but not quite there.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 16:18:35 GMT -7
Try cranking the bass and treble and turning the mids off.
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Post by lowbudget on Jun 17, 2017 7:21:35 GMT -7
Try cranking the bass and treble and turning the mids off. Works for me.
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Post by mickey on Jul 5, 2017 5:41:30 GMT -7
Try cranking the bass and treble and turning the mids off. Works for me. Works for me too, but on re-reading this thread I realise my initial comment in another thread that I can get shimmering blackface type tones out of my Cure is not totally accurate. Now I've owned it for a few weeks I maybe hear what the OP is describing regarding the mids, but that is the way the amp is, like it or not. I can get blackfacey type sounds with single coils and a decent reverb like a Flint, but plugging my 335 in reveals more natural drive, even with the volume down and master up, which responds really well to picking strength and sounds very natural and soulful, but without flubbing out like a blackface amp can. The mids play an important part in this, and I've found I keep the mid knob around half way or slightly above. Actually since buying the Cure I have sold my '72 Deluxe Reverb, as I have no need for it any more. The Cure gives me more of the sound I always wanted from the DR but could never get, and it's more versatile and portable. If you want pure blackface then the Cure is probably not the right amp, as it has more of a tweed character, but to my ears is somewhere in between the two camps. I can also hear some ghost notes, which may or may not be desirable, but are part of the feel and character of the Cure, and it's not the only design to exhibit this, my Maz does it to some extent and apparently the Route 66 and the Wreck as well. I'm told this can be reduced, but not without compromising the overall feel of the amp. The Cure feels great as it is!
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Post by justjoshinya on Aug 11, 2017 10:02:03 GMT -7
I was playing around with my Cure last night, me being a bit OCD I really like my tone knobs at noon it just looks right! I was using a C-Rex to drop off some of the highs for a more rounded tone, but I just picked up a blackface Princeton reverb and was seeing how close I could get the Cure to sound like it! The answer is very close with the original speaker, C-Rex not so much! Since I had the original speaker back in it I thought I'd leave it for a while! I am loving it, anyway!!! Last night I was playing my ES Les Paul and A and D strings sounded a bit funny to me so I dropped the mids of the Cure all the way off and WOW what a difference! I then tried my Tele and Strat through it and it was surprising how much I liked it! As far as it getting Blackface tones I think it gets very close! The 67 Princeton is a fantastic sound amp with reverb and trem that are the best I've heard. But when it comes down to my sound, I always go back to the Z... I've realized that if I try to sound like someone else I always fail, but I'm not too bad at sounding like me (most of the time)!
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