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Post by doctorice on Jan 21, 2017 14:51:52 GMT -7
Not a genuine a/b yet, but some focused playing and listening to both. I set volume and tone knobs to about midway on both amps to start. Master at about 9 (o'clock) on both. Level maxed on the Cure, so it was not involved. Used a Strat throughout.
The Z-Lux has a more prominent low end on this setting. Dialing it back makes it more comparable to the Cure. Of course, you can turn up bass on the Cure. The other thing I noticed was that as I turned up Volume on the Cure the bass became more "sturdy." Not sure if this was solely due to the Fletcher-Munson effect, or if it was an interaction between the volume knob, the bass eq and the speaker/cab. The overall output level was pretty loud for a small room, so I doubt it was F-M alone. Perhaps someone else with both amps can check me on this.
The Cure has a bit more sag, likely reflecting its tube rectification. (This has been commented on by others in another thread.) This causes a note to seem to bloom more than on the Z-Lux, but I'm not convinced that's really going on. Both amps sustain notes for a similar duration. There's just a faster transient with the Z-Lux, imo. When I used fingers, rather than pick, the difference is less apparent; I was not plucking hard, just setting the strings in motion for this "test".
I played around with some other matched settings. There seems a tad more gain in the Cure, with V cranked on both amps. That may be subjective. I also did some playing with Master full up on the Cure and controlling/matching volume to the Z-Lux using the Cure's Level knob. You can hear the added depth from having Master up. (Will need a Brake Lite on the Z-Lux to try to compare.)
I should have noted that reverb and trem were switched off on the Z-Lux, of course. (A Flint does work nicely in the loop on the Cure, btw. It probably would be fine in front too, but I didn't try that yet.)
One other thing: Standby switch on the Cure takes a second or two to come up to volume, whereas the Z-Lux is nearly instant on. This was happening with both amps well warmed up. Could this be related to the circuitry needed for the Level control?
I need to find my a/b switch! I know it's somewhere in the room.
Please feel free to add your own observations, ask questions, etc. In case you're wondering, I don't know yet if I prefer one amp over the other for gigging. (I have used both within the last month without any concerns.)
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Post by simpleton on Jan 21, 2017 14:59:10 GMT -7
Do they play in the same tonal areas or do each flavor up a different direction?
Good review....thanks for it.
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Post by BritInvasion on Jan 21, 2017 15:36:02 GMT -7
Thanks for sharing that Mike.
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Post by doctorice on Jan 21, 2017 15:52:34 GMT -7
Do they play in the same tonal areas or do each flavor up a different direction? Good review....thanks for it. Similar. The Z-Lux may be a tad more scooped in the mids, and the Cure a mite creamier in sound. Pretty subjective. I really need to hook up the a/b switch. The time lapse, short as it is, when unplugging from one and going into the other may be just enough for my ears / brain to not stay locked in on what I just listened to.
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Post by doctorice on Jan 23, 2017 5:41:34 GMT -7
I located my a/b switch yesterday. Z-Lux in 20-watt mode, reverb and tremolo off; Level on Cure maxed; all other knobs set to noon. Amps sound different, along the lines of my previous impressions. Moving the Cure's treble and bass up moved it closer to the Z-Lux's (let's call it) "noon" tone. Moving treble and bass down on Z-Lux had a similar effect. That's consistent with the scooped mid comment I made previously.
I did a lot of other knob twiddling, such as turning all the tone controls to minimum, then rotating through the range of each and doing an a/b. I need to repeat that and record my thoughts.
I believe the cabinets are, unsurprisingly, having an effect. The Z-Lux sounds more open and 3-D. However, the Cure's speaker is not broken in, so that's an uncontrolled variable. Also, even though the amps are side by side, their placement in a very small room may be affecting tone. I need to try some other locations.
One additional point: I have a MAZ 8 in the studio cab. I run bass quite a bit higher on that than I do on my 2x10 MAZ 18. I also liked the Cure with bass up more than where I'd usually have it on the Z-Lux.
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Post by Easyrom on Jan 23, 2017 6:20:35 GMT -7
Nice report, thanks for sharing Mike!
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Post by John on Jan 23, 2017 7:02:02 GMT -7
One other thing: Standby switch on the Cure takes a second or two to come up to volume, whereas the Z-Lux is nearly instant on. This was happening with both amps well warmed up. Could this be related to the circuitry needed for the Level control? SS rec vs Tube rec? --------------------- And what speaker are you running with the Z-lux? Are you using the same speaker in your A/B?
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Post by markT on Jan 23, 2017 7:16:10 GMT -7
Another option you might try is running the ZLux through the Cure cab/speaker. I have run a couple of other amps through the Cure cab/speaker and conclude that the Cure amp itself is voiced way more middy. Not near the depth of the ZLux, which is understandable.
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Post by doctorice on Jan 23, 2017 7:20:11 GMT -7
One other thing: Standby switch on the Cure takes a second or two to come up to volume, whereas the Z-Lux is nearly instant on. This was happening with both amps well warmed up. Could this be related to the circuitry needed for the Level control? SS rec vs Tube rec? --------------------- And what speaker are you running with the Z-lux? Are you using the same speaker in your A/B? Yes, I commented on the recto difference in my OP as likely being part of the greater sag feel to the Cure. Both amps have Z-12 speaker.
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Post by doctorice on Jan 23, 2017 7:27:16 GMT -7
Another option you might try is running the ZLux through the Cure cab/speaker. I have run a couple of other amps through the Cure cab/speaker and conclude that the Cure amp itself is voiced way more middy. Not near the depth of the ZLux, which is understandable. Yes, this is one of the things I need to do to reduce the variables. I can also run the Cure into the Z-Lux combo speaker, which is broken in. I think we're hearing the same, Mark. The Cure's voicing is different, even though the circuit started life similar to the Z-Lux. I "get" the comment made in another post that there's possibly a bit of Therapy in the Cure. (Dr Z hasn't yet commented on my observation that the volume pot of the Cure feels like the one on the Therapy.)
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Post by markT on Jan 23, 2017 7:38:05 GMT -7
Another option you might try is running the ZLux through the Cure cab/speaker. I have run a couple of other amps through the Cure cab/speaker and conclude that the Cure amp itself is voiced way more middy. Not near the depth of the ZLux, which is understandable. Yes, this is one of the things I need to do to reduce the variables. I can also run the Cure into the Z-Lux combo speaker, which is broken in. I think we're hearing the same, Mark. The Cure's voicing is different, even though the circuit started life similar to the Z-Lux. I "get" the comment made in another post that there's possibly a bit of Therapy in the Cure. (Dr Z hasn't yet commented on my observation that the volume pot of the Cure feels like the one on the Therapy.) Yes, it is a PEC volume potentiometer in the Cure. And yes, the Cure into the broken in Z speaker in the bigger ZLux cab will be quite revealing as well.
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Post by telewolf on Jan 23, 2017 7:50:11 GMT -7
I am getting this amp to upgrade from a Blues Jr. I know Dr Z amps are in a different league entirely, but if anyone could offer their thoughts for comparison that would be great.
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Post by nmz on Jan 23, 2017 7:59:00 GMT -7
Another option you might try is running the ZLux through the Cure cab/speaker. I have run a couple of other amps through the Cure cab/speaker and conclude that the Cure amp itself is voiced way more middy. Not near the depth of the ZLux, which is understandable. Yes, this is one of the things I need to do to reduce the variables. I can also run the Cure into the Z-Lux combo speaker, which is broken in. I think we're hearing the same, Mark. The Cure's voicing is different, even though the circuit started life similar to the Z-Lux. I "get" the comment made in another post that there's possibly a bit of Therapy in the Cure. (Dr Z hasn't yet commented on my observation that the volume pot of the Cure feels like the one on the Therapy.) Killing me man, killing me!!!
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Post by digs57 on Jan 23, 2017 8:40:10 GMT -7
I am getting this amp to upgrade from a Blues Jr. I know Dr Z amps are in a different league entirely, but if anyone could offer their thoughts for comparison that would be great. Any of the z amps are a whole different animal than...blue's jr...I had two jr's for a long time before I got into z's...the snap of of a z is something you just wont get from not just the jr...but a lot of a/b modeled circuit board amps...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 9:04:51 GMT -7
Yes, this is one of the things I need to do to reduce the variables. I can also run the Cure into the Z-Lux combo speaker, which is broken in. I think we're hearing the same, Mark. The Cure's voicing is different, even though the circuit started life similar to the Z-Lux. I "get" the comment made in another post that there's possibly a bit of Therapy in the Cure. (Dr Z hasn't yet commented on my observation that the volume pot of the Cure feels like the one on the Therapy.) Killing me man, killing me!!! Tell me about it. An "around the house" Therapy is highly attractive. Maybe I'll buy a Cure and a Maz 8 and have a stereo home rig...
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Post by simpleton on Jan 23, 2017 15:44:57 GMT -7
I am getting this amp to upgrade from a Blues Jr. I know Dr Z amps are in a different league entirely, but if anyone could offer their thoughts for comparison that would be great. All of a sudden you will hear yourself.....you will feel a bit more naked at first possibly. The controls on the Blues Jr are not like the Z...the Z controls will feel active as opposed to the more or less style of "normal" amps. The sweet solo tones with clarity even when heavily overdriven or the sustain with clean notes will be a great feeling. I love Blues jr.....but owning Z is as rewarding as you want it to be. They can be simple, a set and forget or a tone chasers dream with subtle nuances affected by tubes, speakers, guitars, pickups, cabinets etc.... every Z has made me a better player and opened my ears to tones I wouldn't of found otherwise. Congrats and I hope you enjoy it!
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Post by JoeMo' on Jan 23, 2017 20:05:32 GMT -7
Another option you might try is running the ZLux through the Cure cab/speaker. I have run a couple of other amps through the Cure cab/speaker and conclude that the Cure amp itself is voiced way more middy. Not near the depth of the ZLux, which is understandable. Yes, this is one of the things I need to do to reduce the variables. I can also run the Cure into the Z-Lux combo speaker, which is broken in. I think we're hearing the same, Mark. The Cure's voicing is different, even though the circuit started life similar to the Z-Lux. I "get" the comment made in another post that there's possibly a bit of Therapy in the Cure. (Dr Z hasn't yet commented on my observation that the volume pot of the Cure feels like the one on the Therapy.) I have to agree with this. Even though the Cure comes from the DNA of the zlux, I don't think it's fair to call it a "zlux Jr." Audibly, I think we are comparing Apples and pears. Just a slight bit of overlap. To me the zlux ,whether in 20 watt or 40 watt mode, had a rounder, fuller sound, and like mike said "a little more scooped in the mids" The cure, to me, had a more focused midrange. That being said you can dial some of that out in cleaner settings on the cure ( listen to the Matts guitars demo I posted) but when you push the tubes into breakup the midrange starts to become more apparent again. Pushing the master all the way up and pushing the volume pretty good this little dude screams and has a nice midrange sustaining crunch more along the lines of a cranked tweed or even brownish face amp. BUT, when I lowered the level knob it seemed to mellow the mids out and it became extra smooth and creamy. It's a great feature for obvious reasons but for me it was also a cool way to sculpt different tones whether it was me tricking my ears or that fletcher Muncie thing everybody talks about lol. bottom line, everybody's ears are different. And thank God we've got a Dr designing and building amps where there is something for everybody. I personally do not think this amp should be compared to a zlux. I think the Cure stands on its own in the Z line. It's light on weight, light on features, BIG on volume, tone and quality approach will pave it's own way and stand alone and be a great success without riding on the coat tails of the "little Zlux" name. My advice to anyone looking to buy a new Z amp: If you want the Zlux sound, save up and buy a Zlux. You WILL not be disappointed. It'll be worth waiting and saving. If you want a no-nonsense lightweight versitile bedroom, studio, small gig, big gig, bigger gig, amp with a good amount of headroom and also a good amount of midrange crunch not to mention economical footprint and price.. Grab a Cure.
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Post by Joey Beverages on Jan 24, 2017 6:47:41 GMT -7
Great thread. Am thinking about my next Z acquisition - have some ideas/gas/etc. I thought I was all set to get a Maz 18 210 .... hesitated, and thought maybe a Ghia ...... then I saw an EZG-50 ....... Yet, I keep coming back to 6V6 tubes in 20-watt range (or greater) .....do I go back to a Remedy? Do I try to track down a JAZ? Do I get a Z-Lux? And then I see the Cure So, no firm plans yet - all I am sure of is that I would like to add another Z amp Definitely appreciate all the information and comparative details. cheers always, Joel
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Post by ME on Jan 24, 2017 8:51:18 GMT -7
Great thread. Am thinking about my next Z acquisition - have some ideas/gas/etc. I thought I was all set to get a Maz 18 210 .... hesitated, and thought maybe a Ghia ...... then I saw an EZG-50 ....... Yet, I keep coming back to 6V6 tubes in 20-watt range (or greater) .....do I go back to a Remedy? Do I try to track down a JAZ? Do I get a Z-Lux? And then I see the Cure So, no firm plans yet - all I am sure of is that I would like to add another Z amp Definitely appreciate all the information and comparative details. cheers always, Joel We just want them all 😎 ME
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Post by Joey Beverages on Jan 24, 2017 9:06:51 GMT -7
True
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Post by doctorice on Jan 24, 2017 15:17:54 GMT -7
Managed to squeeze a few moments out to set up a truer "a/b". Put both amps into the Z-12 in the Z-Lux cab. Radial Headbone to switch amps. EQ bypass off on both amps. Reverb and tremolo off on Z-Lux. All knobs to noon, except Cure level full up. I chased after two things: 1. How close could I get them with a clean sound? Pretty close with Volume remaining at noon and moving the eq knobs. It's not a perfect audible match, but turning treble down on the Z-Lux and up on the Cure, turning the bass almost off on the Z-Lux and up a little on the Cure, and nudging the Cure mid down a bit seem to get there. My matching was done using all 5 positions on a Strat. The mid-scoop (Z-Lux) and mid-forward (Cure) were still there at some level. 2. Gain comparison. No comparison with max volume: the Cure is louder and gainier. Remember, this was with boost/eq bypass not involved. So some overlap with Therapy does seem a valid point. Joey sums it up very well: Even though the Cure comes from the DNA of the zlux, I don't think it's fair to call it a "zlux Jr." Audibly, I think we are comparing Apples and pears. Just a slight bit of overlap. To me the zlux ,whether in 20 watt or 40 watt mode, had a rounder, fuller sound, and like mike said "a little more scooped in the mids" The cure, to me, had a more focused midrange. That being said you can dial some of that out in cleaner settings on the cure ( listen to the Matts guitars demo I posted) but when you push the tubes into breakup the midrange starts to become more apparent again. Pushing the master all the way up and pushing the volume pretty good this little dude screams and has a nice midrange sustaining crunch more along the lines of a cranked tweed or even brownish face amp. BUT, when I lowered the level knob it seemed to mellow the mids out and it became extra smooth and creamy. It's a great feature for obvious reasons but for me it was also a cool way to sculpt different tones whether it was me tricking my ears or that fletcher Muncie thing everybody talks about lol. bottom line, everybody's ears are different. And thank God we've got a Dr designing and building amps where there is something for everybody. I personally do not think this amp should be compared to a zlux. I think the Cure stands on its own in the Z line. It's light on weight, light on features, BIG on volume, tone and quality approach will pave it's own way and stand alone and be a great success without riding on the coat tails of the "little Zlux" name. My advice to anyone looking to buy a new Z amp: If you want the Zlux sound, save up and buy a Zlux. You WILL not be disappointed. It'll be worth waiting and saving. If you want a no-nonsense lightweight versitile bedroom, studio, small gig, big gig, bigger gig, amp with a good amount of headroom and also a good amount of midrange crunch not to mention economical footprint and price.. Grab a Cure. So I think I'm done with testing. Time to go back to playing music
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Post by Figaro on Jan 24, 2017 20:13:56 GMT -7
Managed to squeeze a few moments out to set up a truer "a/b". Put both amps into the Z-12 in the Z-Lux cab. Radial Headbone to switch amps. EQ bypass off on both amps. Reverb and tremolo off on Z-Lux. All knobs to noon, except Cure level full up. I chased after two things: 1. How close could I get them with a clean sound? Pretty close with Volume remaining at noon and moving the eq knobs. It's not a perfect audible match, but turning treble down on the Z-Lux and up on the Cure, turning the bass almost off on the Z-Lux and up a little on the Cure, and nudging the Cure mid down a bit seem to get there. My matching was done using all 5 positions on a Strat. The mid-scoop (Z-Lux) and mid-forward (Cure) were still there at some level. Do you usually use the z-lux with the bass almost off?
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Post by doctorice on Jan 25, 2017 5:39:29 GMT -7
Managed to squeeze a few moments out to set up a truer "a/b". Put both amps into the Z-12 in the Z-Lux cab. Radial Headbone to switch amps. EQ bypass off on both amps. Reverb and tremolo off on Z-Lux. All knobs to noon, except Cure level full up. I chased after two things: 1. How close could I get them with a clean sound? Pretty close with Volume remaining at noon and moving the eq knobs. It's not a perfect audible match, but turning treble down on the Z-Lux and up on the Cure, turning the bass almost off on the Z-Lux and up a little on the Cure, and nudging the Cure mid down a bit seem to get there. My matching was done using all 5 positions on a Strat. The mid-scoop (Z-Lux) and mid-forward (Cure) were still there at some level. Do you usually use the z-lux with the bass almost off? I usually set it using Buddy Whittington's advice: Turn bass all the way down. Then bring it up gradually until you just hear it start to affect the sound. That's my starting point and I may adjust it further from there. What's helpful to me about this approach is that it is a simple way to take into account differences in rooms and guitars. I've found that even with the same guitar I end up with different settings in different spaces. Another aspect is that the amp's response, or our perception of it, may vary based on one's settings of volume and master, as well as the other tone controls. Buddy's method establishes a baseline. A caveat is that I'm performing mostly blues and related rock tunes. I can't play like Buddy, but the music is similar. For other styles of music this suggestion may not be as useful. (That said, I did a show focused on British Invasion tunes over the summer with the Z-Lux and the bass stayed low for that also.)
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Post by justjoshinya on Jan 25, 2017 7:45:49 GMT -7
This just keeps sounding better to me! For me the Z-Lux was a little too bright, not that I had any problem finding my sound I just turne the bass and treble down to about 10 and the mids up to about 2 so the cure sounds like I may find my favorite eq around noon on the knobs? Come on Dr. Z send one more amp to Humbucker Music I am next!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 7:49:50 GMT -7
Looking forward to the Cure in a head format, as I've said elsewhere.
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Post by doctorice on Jan 25, 2017 8:42:10 GMT -7
I suppose I should do one more test while I've got the Headbone set up: Stick an attenuator in there and crank both amps
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Post by markT on Jan 25, 2017 8:56:34 GMT -7
Do you usually use the z-lux with the bass almost off? I usually set it using Buddy Whittington's advice: Turn bass all the way down. Then bring it up gradually until you just hear it start to affect the sound. That's my starting point and I may adjust it further from there. What's helpful to me about this approach is that it is a simple way to take into account differences in rooms and guitars. I've found that even with the same guitar I end up with different settings in different spaces. Another aspect is that the amp's response, or our perception of it, may vary based on one's settings of volume and master, as well as the other tone controls. Buddy's method establishes a baseline. A caveat is that I'm performing mostly blues and related rock tunes. I can't play like Buddy, but the music is similar. For other styles of music this suggestion may not be as useful. (That said, I did a show focused on British Invasion tunes over the summer with the Z-Lux and the bass stayed low for that also.) Mike!....I thought there was no political discussion around here?!? I'd love to hear more about the differences between amps at normal settings vs. trying to get them to sound the same at radical settings.
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Post by greenblues58 on Jan 25, 2017 9:02:04 GMT -7
I suppose I should do one more test while I've got the Headbone set up: Stick an attenuator in there and crank both amps Why not just go for it and crank em without the attenuator ! BTW l acquired a used ( as in like new hardly any use) Z Lux at the weekend so am still getting to know it but will post review / thoughts and some questions l have later in the week .
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Post by doctorice on Jan 25, 2017 10:00:16 GMT -7
Why not just go for it and crank em without the attenuator ! My ears would not like it. Tinnitus for years and impaired frequency response in both ears. BTW l acquired a used ( as in like new hardly any use) Z Lux at the weekend so am still getting to know it but will post review / thoughts and some questions l have later in the week . Congrats on the Z-Lux. Eager to hear your thoughts. I want to see how close I can get to Peter Green tone using the Z-Lux and my Corsa-modded LP. Might that be in your plans also?
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Post by greenblues58 on Jan 25, 2017 10:45:28 GMT -7
Why not just go for it and crank em without the attenuator ! My ears would not like it. Tinnitus for years and impaired frequency response in both ears. BTW l acquired a used ( as in like new hardly any use) Z Lux at the weekend so am still getting to know it but will post review / thoughts and some questions l have later in the week . Congrats on the Z-Lux. Eager to hear your thoughts. I want to see how close I can get to Peter Green tone using the Z-Lux and my Corsa-modded LP. Might that be in your plans also? I haven't considered sticking humbuckers through it yet ,l have only tried a couple of my strats ,but l did buy my Blackstar Artisan specifically to go with the Corsa Manalishi though my Maz does a very good job too. l wasn't looking for another amp in particular but l was thinking that my Silverface Vibrolux was getting too much use and l really should limit its use to keep it in its current condition. The Z lux came up at the right price and was too good an opportunity to miss so l went for it.
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