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Post by mickey on Jan 13, 2017 16:36:48 GMT -7
A few years ago I replaced the V30 in my 1x12 convertible cab with a Gold, mainly to use with my Maz Sr head. I have always been impressed with its chimey cleans, but introducing some gain or using a drive pedal can produce quite a thin and nasal sounding top end which I have never liked so much, and in recent days I've been wondering about replacing it with a Creamback 65. It would be less efficient, which could be a good thing as the 38 with a Gold is way louder than I need, and in the videos I've seen the Creamback seems nicely balanced, more so than the V30, and maybe a bit fuller in the mids than the Gold and with a softer and more rounded treble. Has anyone here tried one with a Maz, or even changed from a Gold? In theory it should sound good with my Ghia too. There are still things I like about the Gold, but I might take a gamble on a Creamback.
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Post by Faze on Jan 13, 2017 17:55:50 GMT -7
A few years ago I replaced the V30 in my 1x12 convertible cab with a Gold, mainly to use with my Maz Sr head. I have always been impressed with its chimey cleans, but introducing some gain or using a drive pedal can produce quite a thin and nasal sounding top end which I have never liked so much, and in recent days I've been wondering about replacing it with a Creamback 65. It would be less efficient, which could be a good thing as the 38 with a Gold is way louder than I need, and in the videos I've seen the Creamback seems nicely balanced, more so than the V30, and maybe a bit fuller in the mids than the Gold and with a softer and more rounded treble. Has anyone here tried one with a Maz, or even changed from a Gold? In theory it should sound good with my Ghia too. There are still things I like about the Gold, but I might take a gamble on a Creamback. I found that the gold always sounded better to me when plugging straight in no effects. I loved it with the maz Jr. I also had it in a cab with the original non master remedy and straight in it was awesome. But I know what you mean when you use a drive pedal with it it gets that nasal tone that is not that appealing. I did change to the Creamback with my remedy and never looked back. However I never tried the creamback with the maz jr. Hope this helps. On a side not the new Z-speaker is excellent I have it in my Z-lux as well as a 1/12 cab with my therapy. It cuts through the mix really good has a nice treble response thats not spikey at all and also a fat warm crunchy tone overdriven. Plus it is priced reasonable as well.
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Post by "Z" Steve on Jan 13, 2017 20:10:47 GMT -7
I'm with you re the Gold. I loved it at first, especially when I was able to crank my Remedy at 40 watts. but after I bought a Creamback the Gold has resided wrapped in plastic in a box. I use the Creamback, G12H30, and I'm just breaking in a Greenback, in my 1x12 cabs.
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Post by sharkboy on Jan 13, 2017 21:14:43 GMT -7
For me, I like the gold and the blue. The biggest thing that I appreciate about them is that I can be heard without contributing to volume wars in a band situation. Other speakers are a bit less laser-y, so they may have bigger sweet spots for mics, etc. An open back cab can help provide mic options, too.
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Post by John on Jan 14, 2017 5:32:48 GMT -7
From what you've described, I would definitely get the creamback M. The lower db is always welcome to me. The two speakers aren't that far off in tone. Less bass, which lets more mids through.
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Post by mickey on Jan 14, 2017 11:46:19 GMT -7
Thanks guys, It's probably worth buying a Creamback to try, and if it's not for me I'm not going to lose too much. What's money for anyway!
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Post by greenblues58 on Jan 14, 2017 13:46:19 GMT -7
Thanks guys, It's probably worth buying a Creamback to try, and if it's not for me I'm not going to lose too much. What's money for anyway! If you don't like the cream back l will relieve you of it as keep thinking of trying one.
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Post by wubberdubber on Jan 14, 2017 16:51:02 GMT -7
I tried a Gold in my MAZ 18 1X12...actually two of them. Didn't care for the first one, sold it, and at a later date got another one to put in another cab. Still didn't like it, tried it in the MAZ again, and ended up selling that one and putting a WGS ET-65 in the MAZ (perfect!). The Gold is highly touted, I know...to me, it sounds ok clean, at home...but that nasally thing you describe has always been unavoidable for me in a louder live application. Haven't tried a Creamback, but it looks interesting...
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Post by mickey on Jan 15, 2017 8:26:01 GMT -7
Creamback M65 ordered, so we'll see! I would have tried the Z speaker, but it's not readily available in the UK yet. The Creamback seems to be Doc's current first choice of Celestions though, so I'm looking forward to hearing it.
As an aside, I've just put my well broken in V30 back in the cab instead of the Gold, and it sounds pretty good, not as nasal, but hopefully the Creamback will sounds a bit less fizzy on the top and a bit smoother all round. I'll report back when I've tried it.
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Post by zpilot on Jan 15, 2017 13:51:14 GMT -7
I love my Gold but I understand what you are referring to about the fizzy top end. It does that at low volumes. I think most of that goes away when you push the speaker. Also, from running sound I've observed that when you get off-stage and out in the audience the Gold sounds glorious.
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Post by mickey on Jan 15, 2017 14:01:35 GMT -7
I love my Gold but I understand what you are referring to about the fizzy top end. It does that at low volumes. I think most of that goes away when you push the speaker. Also, from running sound I've observed that when you get off-stage and out in the audience the Gold sounds glorious. I do agree that when pushed it sounds fantastic and that top end smooths out, but I rarely get to push it that hard, so maybe a 97db speaker, instead of the Gold's 100db, will work better for me as I might be able to get the amp to work harder without attenuating or keeping the treble rolled back. If not then the Gold will stay.
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Post by John on Jan 15, 2017 14:06:07 GMT -7
so maybe a 97db speaker, instead of the Gold's 100db, will work better for me as I might be able to get the amp to work harder without attenuating or keeping the treble rolled back. If not then the Gold will stay. ^^^ THIS!
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Post by zpilot on Jan 16, 2017 14:58:27 GMT -7
Actually you would want the SPEAKER to work harder. Frequency response of speakers will change according to how hard they are pushed. The amp's response will stay close to the input.
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Post by mickey on Jan 16, 2017 15:53:15 GMT -7
Actually you would want the SPEAKER to work harder. Frequency response of speakers will change according to how hard they are pushed. The amp's response will stay close to the input. I meant that if the speaker is less efficient then it's going to sound quieter, so that the amp can be turned up a bit to compensate, getting it more towards its sweet spot, if it isn't there already. Am I wrong? I often am...
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Post by zpilot on Jan 16, 2017 16:02:27 GMT -7
Actually you would want the SPEAKER to work harder. Frequency response of speakers will change according to how hard they are pushed. The amp's response will stay close to the input. I meant that if the speaker is less efficient then it's going to sound quieter, so that the amp can be turned up a bit to compensate, getting it more towards its sweet spot, if it isn't there already. Am I wrong? I often am... No, that's exactly how that works.
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Post by Ridgeback on Jan 16, 2017 18:14:26 GMT -7
I got the Gold in my first Z, a Maz 18 NR and kept it when I sold the amp. I have had it for about 15 years in various cabs and combos and it has been my favorite stand alone speaker regardless of the kind of amp or pairing with other speakers. I have only found one application where it was actually terrible, a ported closed back cab. Most recently, I tried it with a 62 Brown Princeton and it was like it was made for that amp in spite of it being only 12 watts. Best match since the Ray. Just my 2 cents on the Gold.
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Post by zpilot on Jan 17, 2017 2:31:59 GMT -7
I've got one in a MAZ 8. Same thing here.
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Post by zpilot on Jan 17, 2017 4:27:37 GMT -7
Another thought here. A Gold sounds a little different in a Tweed Deluxe type cabinet than when used in a stiffer 3/4" ply cab. I think it works better in a cab with thinner panels when used with lower powered amps. The baffle is supported differently in a Deluxe cab also.
I have my MAZ 8 in a lightweight cab and while it doesn't make a major difference, there is some. I didn't think so when I first got the MAZ 8 but the more I use it, the more I realize it does. We forget sometimes that what we hear is the whole cabinet and not just the speaker.
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Post by mickey on Jan 18, 2017 5:52:50 GMT -7
Received the Creamback and I've been comparing it to the Gold. First impressions are it's a very nice sounding speaker, well balanced, no pronounced upper mid spike like the V30, though that's partly what makes the V30 crunch so well. The Creamback is less strident than the Gold, and quieter. Still has a sweet top end and solid bass though, and sounds very nice clean. My drive pedals sound a bit more natural. Obviously I'm giving it an initial careful break in, but I'll probably try it at Friday's gig; I suspect the Gold will actually cut through better, but that remains to be seen. I feel that the Gold has a bit more of everything, though that's partly what I've been tiring of recently. With the Creamback I seem to be able to use the Maz's tone controls more effectively, whereas I usually keep them around 10 o' clock, with the cut on noon.
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Post by John on Jan 18, 2017 8:53:50 GMT -7
You should be able to push the amp considerably harder/louder with the creamback. That in itself is worth value...to me anyway. Or put another way, use less attenuation if you use any...and increase master volume. At the end of the day, I still love tube amps with the master volume up as high as it can go.
And at stage volume, the ceramic magnet will be a bit punchier than an alnico.
And apparently you like the upper mid spike of the V30...some folks hate it. It depends on personal taste, the guitar, the amp, the music being played.
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Post by mickey on Jan 18, 2017 11:24:48 GMT -7
You should be able to push the amp considerably harder/louder with the creamback. That in itself is worth value...to me anyway. Or put another way, use less attenuation if you use any...and increase master volume. At the end of the day, I still love tube amps with the master volume up as high as it can go. And at stage volume, the ceramic magnet will be a bit punchier than an alnico. And apparently you like the upper mid spike of the V30...some folks hate it. It depends on personal taste, the guitar, the amp, the music being played. Yes, pushing the amp harder and particularly getting the master up a bit more was my idea. If I can leave the Airbrake at home so much the better, but I don't think that'll happen, the 38 is a loud amp!. Regarding the V30, yes I like the mid spike but only in small doses, there are times when it's too much, and it's not the base tone I look for. The Creamback is promising, softer treble but still sweet, and I hope the bass is full but tight, looking forward to trying it properly.
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Post by mickey on Jan 21, 2017 11:27:57 GMT -7
Tried the Creamback last night, and really all of the above applies! My initial speculations and findings were right, as were you guys. It was actually our favourite venue, which is a small pub but they love their music and we were definitely not quiet. Due to the less efficient speaker I had the Airbrake on one click instead of the two I would normally use there, and the amp's master and tones higher too, as expected. It sounded warmer, less cutting at the top end, broke up more easily, and my drives sounded really nice. A particular surprise was that my KTR sounded much more natural, and I enjoyed using it more. On the down side, all my guitars lacked some of the sparkle which the Gold gave them, and I felt my Strat didn't cut through as well, so next time I'll play with the EQ some more. I suppose I could have bought the H75 Creamback instead of the M65, but I bought the one which the Doc offers as an option, and both Humbucker Music and Peach (UK) seem to prefer the 65, so I took that as a recommendation. I also had my 335 and SG with P90's with me, and that SG, which I rarely take, sounded really great on stuff like Paul Rodgers' "Wishing Well" and "Fire And Water". So, my feelings are mixed, and while half way through the gig I wanted to put the Gold back in, I've decided to try the CB some more. It's a great speaker for sure, but a few more gigs will persuade me to keep it or not. (Greenblues58 I'll keep you posted!).
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Post by bagabonz on Jan 22, 2017 20:10:15 GMT -7
I have a severe dislike of the gold. I've had a Tone Tubby Chicago Blue in my Zwreck for about 6 months now. I really like it. At 94 db you can really push it. It's quite a bit less expensive than the gold as well. Anyone tried the Tone Tubby organic?
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Post by randalp3000 on Jan 24, 2017 13:50:44 GMT -7
I was getting bored with the Gold as well so I went with an alnico Cream. Wasn't blowing me away so I picked up a Scumnico S75 PVC alnico. That lasted a week, it was nice till I finally tried my ASW Elegante. I think it's the keeper.
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Post by mickey on Jan 24, 2017 16:25:26 GMT -7
Interesting. I found this Youtube video earlier today, and I heard exactly what I don't like about the Gold, that nasal top end. The Blue didn't seem to have that at all. I don't use that amount of gain, or play in that style, but it illustrates what I mean.
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Post by zpilot on Jan 25, 2017 6:10:18 GMT -7
Interesting. In a couple of those comparisons the Gold sounds atrocious and in a couple I prefer it. I don't play with the speaker or amp pushed that much so I'm not sure how it relates to my rig anyway.
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Post by mickey on Feb 20, 2017 1:57:14 GMT -7
Quick update.....after a couple of gigs and a good deal of playing at home I've gone back to the Gold, for now. I really like the Creamback but miss the chime and depth of the Gold. Both great speakers for different reasons. The nasal top end I described is not such an issue if I ease the volume back and master up on the amp, which gives it more depth anyway. You have to try these things:)
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Post by John on Feb 22, 2017 4:25:35 GMT -7
In my humble opinion, the gold (and the blue) sound best with clean or mild/crunchy overdrive tones. They will sound terrible with high gain sounds.
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Post by mickey on Feb 23, 2017 1:11:35 GMT -7
In my humble opinion, the gold (and the blue) sound best with clean or mild/crunchy overdrive tones. They will sound terrible with high gain sounds. Your humble opinion pretty much matches mine John!
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Post by zpilot on Feb 23, 2017 2:39:27 GMT -7
Guess we should have a Greenback or something similar for that.
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