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Post by natebernstein on Jul 25, 2016 8:49:45 GMT -7
Hi Folks,
I've lurked on these forums for a while but this is my first post. I'm considering purchasing a Maz 8 studio combo. Looking at one of the major dealers' sites, there are several speaker options to choose from, and I'm wondering if folks can comment on what they view as the best match for this amp.
Of course, I know that the answer, like with so many other things tone and gear, is "it depends." So let me give you a bit more background:
This amp is primarily going to be used in my fairly small home studio. I like that it seems loud enough to gig in small clubs, or even larger venues when mic'd, should that need arise, but for the foreseeable future it will be a home-recording and home-playing amp. I play primarily Americana, alternative, classic rock and blues. I have a bunch of pedals but usually prefer amp overdrive. My other amps include a Fender 68 Custom Deluxe Reverb, a Vox AC4TV, a Fender Vibro-Champ EC and a Tyler SC6, all of which I use pretty regularly for recording and home playing. My recordings often include a host of other instruments, including electric bass, drums, and other acoustic and electric guitars.
I've never changed a speaker in any amp I've ever owned. So although I'm learning a lot more about amplification, cabinets and speakers, I'm probably not likely to mess with whatever speaker I go with after buying the amp - at least not in the near future. And I'm inclined to just go with whatever the good Doctor feels is appropriate as the stock speaker.
But I've noticed some discussion here about changing up speakers - particularly subbing in a Creamback for the stock G12H30. I'm also intrigued by the Celestion Alnico Blue, as that is an iconic speaker associated with the Vox sound. But perhaps there's a reason why Z moved from a Blue to the G12H30 as stock in this amp.
I'm also wondering if there's an appreciable difference in this amp between the G12H30 and the UK-made G12H Heritage, which is a smaller upcharge than the Blue.
Would appreciate any thoughts from the Z aficionados assembled here. Thanks in advance!
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Jul 25, 2016 9:22:09 GMT -7
I think the major reason for the change was cost. It is still a great amp with the G12H30 in it, but there is something about the blue that kicks it up a notch. As I recall, Doc originally had the Blue as stock but to cost reduce it a little he made it an option while making the G12H30 standard.
BTW - welcome officially to the Forum. As you've probably found out, this is a great place for information on both Z and non-Z equipment and a lot of great people here.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jul 25, 2016 16:00:52 GMT -7
Welcome to the forum, there's a world of great info here. I tried the G12H30, Blue, and Creamback 65 in my Maz 8. Ended up with the Creamback. Love it in that amp!
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Post by ME on Jul 25, 2016 16:05:15 GMT -7
Creamback or Greenback. Both sound good. ME
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Post by dergit (Markus) on Jul 25, 2016 23:30:02 GMT -7
I have a H30 in mine which I really like... I'll pull it out at some point though. First, because I have an old Marshall 4x12 back in my parents' cellar with the original "Blackback" Hs in it that I really want to try, and second, because I keep hearing great things about the Z12.
The Blues I've never really liked for some reason... but I bet they sound great with the MAZ 8!
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Post by natebernstein on Jul 27, 2016 7:48:30 GMT -7
Thanks for the replies, guys.
I've never heard in person (that I know of, at least) or played through a Blue, and am very intrigued by the reputation and sound clips I see online. But it also seems to be the kind of speaker players either love or hate, so a higher-risk proposition for me than the stock speaker.
With respect to the Creamback recommendation, is it fair to assume that the 65W power rating on that speaker means later breakup, making it a good choice for someone who's looking to get more clean headroom out of the Maz 8 (not necessarily something I'm after with this amp)? In that case I may be better off with a Blue at 15W, a Greenback (at 20W for the vintage or 25W for the modern one) or the stock speaker at 30W...
I'm currently thinking about buying from Humbucker Music and they don't seem to offer the Creamback or Greenback as an option (G12H30, Blue, Z12 and G12H Heritage - UK made are the four listed on their site), though maybe they'd configure the amp with one of them if I asked...
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Post by Easyrom on Aug 1, 2016 1:06:07 GMT -7
Hi guys. Had the G12H30 stock in my Maz 8. Changed it for a Scumback Scumnico which I love. Lost a bit f the amazing bottom end the G12H had, but won that Alnico magic in both treble and medium ranges. That being said, I tried my Maz into the Z12 of my Z-Lux and found it really great. Rounder and softer to my ears. BUT, the Z12 was in the Z-Lux cabinet, so it's not a fair comparison. Hope that helps. Cheers.
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Post by noblejamsrock on Aug 1, 2016 18:07:19 GMT -7
Excited for you! I have had a Maz 8 for a few years now. Have tried with my fleet of speaker options which include the ET-65, G12H30, Blue, Gold, V30, Creamback 65 and Chinese Greenback. While I did run the Gold for a bit, I have gone back to the Blue every time. Something so sweet in the mids, clarity and light compression. I find that this amp is SOO flexible that I really can dial in a ton of great tones and styles with the blue. I felt like the Gold was a little bassier than I needed in that amp and I had to run the amp much harder to drive it. I feel like the blue sounds great at all volumes. In fairness, I can dial in a great tone with any of the mentioned speakers because the amp is really that flexible. I am mostly a pedal player and get all my drive from pedals. Use for home studio work, worship at church and small gigs miced up. Play contemporary worship, classic rock, blues, jazz and country. Frequently throw single coils, humbuckers and TV jones filters at it. Little tweak of the cut knob and it's almost there everytime. Also have an M12 I am now running with the greenback. Creamback before. I can drive the lower watt speakers harder at lower volumes and it shows in tone (little kids sleeping). Hope this helps!
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Post by noblejamsrock on Aug 1, 2016 18:09:15 GMT -7
Oh and for what it's worth, the blue has definitely been getting sweeter with time. A little bright out of the box but not harsh.
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Post by dergit (Markus) on Aug 2, 2016 1:37:39 GMT -7
I guess it really depends on what sound you're going for mostly... I like my MAZ to just barely break up and that works really well with the G12H30. The harshness people talk about I only hear when I dial it deep into the dirt.
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Post by doctorice on Aug 2, 2016 10:54:00 GMT -7
I think my MAZ 8 is #5 from the first batch with the Cel Blue as stock. With that speaker the price point for a new amp must have struck Z as a bit high, which I recall is the main reason for reverting to the G12H30.
Doc is very astute at matching and suggesting speaker pairings for his amps. I've been very happy with the Blue.
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Post by natebernstein on Aug 2, 2016 12:24:32 GMT -7
Thanks for the additional replies, folks!
Noblejamsrock, good to hear you love the Blue so much.
Re Markus' comment ("it depends on what sound your going for"), point well taken. I want this amp to run the gamut, including natural amp OD. Would NOT be using it just as a clean pedal platform.
Does that change anyone's views?
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Post by noblejamsrock on Aug 2, 2016 15:05:11 GMT -7
There are several recent boards here heavily suggesting the Creamback 65 and I tried it last night AGAIN. Got to say that is pretty dang sweet... I recall it being a bit brighter the first time but I've been pounding on it for a bit now. I must say for amp overdrive, that recent Demo by Dave Baker demonstrating the many hats of this amp using natural amp gain got me all fired up excited. I would say use what he's using cause that sounded GREAT!!! Makes me want the PPIMV Bad. Ha. Oh, and I'm sticking with Blue but could easily run the Creamback. Does anyone else hear similar chime, top end, break up and compression characteristics between the Creamback 65, the Gold and the ET-65? Or did I just discredit my ears? Probably just dialing them in similarly and getting a lot of consistency with pedals at low volumes. Good luck. Can't go wrong with any of these!!
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Post by simpleton on Aug 2, 2016 16:40:00 GMT -7
I've been really wanting a MAZ 8 .... I would probably pick the Z 12" speaker in the studio combo. Because I've not been a lover of Celestion Speakers....but I'd take the G12H30 if I picked a Celestion....it's the speaker of there's I've liked the best.
I've been hovering over the add to cart button for a week or two.
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Post by dergit (Markus) on Aug 3, 2016 7:41:32 GMT -7
Do it. Easily the only amp I'd keep if I had to choose.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2016 19:46:58 GMT -7
Z12.
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Post by simpleton on Aug 4, 2016 20:40:09 GMT -7
I was on the gear page talking about this and it was mentioned that the Z12 might take away the chime from the amp more where as the G12h would let it breath more.....food for thought. I partially wanted the Z 12 because I have a Therapy and wanted to see how it sounded with that as well.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Aug 5, 2016 16:48:29 GMT -7
Sheesh. I've been playing mine, (Creamback) all afternoon and loving it, and then I re-read this thread. I've got a Blue and a G12H30 in boxes in the basement and this is making it so hard to leave well enough alone! Now I'm thinking that I need to give the Blue another chance, so tomorrow may be swap day again. Oh, and I've got an ET-65 around somewhere too...Gotta love it.
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Post by purpletele on Aug 5, 2016 16:51:00 GMT -7
Sheesh. I've been playing mine, (Creamback) all afternoon and loving it, and then I re-read this thread. I've got a Blue and a G12H30 in boxes in the basement and this is making it so hard to leave well enough alone! Now I'm thinking that I need to give the Blue another chance, so tomorrow may be swap day again. Gotta love it. I have the Z-12 in a box stacked on an Eminence SC64. No reason to change tonight!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2016 13:29:23 GMT -7
I was on the gear page talking about this and it was mentioned that the Z12 might take away the chime from the amp more where as the G12h would let it breath more.....food for thought. I partially wanted the Z 12 because I have a Therapy and wanted to see how it sounded with that as well. The Z12 still has plenty of chime. Just keep the cut control up...
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Post by micknelson on Aug 14, 2021 13:34:14 GMT -7
I recently switched out the speaker in my Maz 8 combo from the Celestion G12H Anniversary to the Blue. I had played the G12H for 3 years and enjoyed it, particularly the big, focused bass with the 'bloom' that seemed to explode when you hit it hard. But I found the top end to be a ‘ice picky’ and I preferred rolling back the ‘Cut’ knob almost all the way. It had a lot of presence and, over time, I came to feel that it was too ‘in your face’. The Blue came out of the box sounding quite harsh and trebly. I ran music through it for 24 hours and that warmed it right up. I think that, at this point, everyone knows what the Blue sounds like; sweet and warm with plenty of chime. It's a great clean sound but is outstanding overdriven and/or through a dirt box (I'm playing a Telecaster through a Hot Cake). The main reason for this post is that I've come to believe that the Maz 8 was designed specifically for the Blue. The EQ knobs have a much greater effect with the Blue than they did with the G12H. Small changes in the Mids knob now has a great impact on the sound. The Cut knob is now useful through most of its range. I think that the reason why the Blue was standard when the Maz 8 was first offered was because that's what Dr. Z intended. I read somewhere that the Blue was changed out for the G12H because there were player complaints that the amp lacked bass. It's true that the Blue does not have the bass punch of the G12H. The bottom line for me is that it was a good change. I feel like I have a brand new amp that is more flexible and sounds better.
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Post by "Z" Steve on Aug 14, 2021 18:15:48 GMT -7
I switch back and forth from the Z12 to the Ragin Cajun. The amp came with the G12h, which was good, but the Z12 & RC fit better. Now I need to find a used C Blue to see what it is these Blues people speak of! A new Blue is too pricey to try when I am happy with what I have.
Great report though! Thanks for sharing.
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Post by doctorice on Aug 15, 2021 5:18:24 GMT -7
I think that the reason why the Blue was standard when the Maz 8 was first offered was because that's what Dr. Z intended. That's my recollection also. Another reason Doc switched to the G12H was cost: the MAZ 8 with Blue was fairly expensive for a low-power amp. I believe its price was pretty close to the MAZ 18 Jr, which does not come stock with a Blue.
The Blue does take time to break in, but once it does.... There's ample bass, at least for my taste.
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Post by micknelson on Aug 15, 2021 6:07:38 GMT -7
Another point is that most amps are too powerful for the Blue's 15 watt power rating. The Maz 8 with its 8 watt output is a good match for this speaker.
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Post by zpilot on Aug 15, 2021 9:43:47 GMT -7
I've tried several speakers in my MAZ 8 and what I like best is dependent on what I'm using the amp for at the time. No big surprise there. For Fendery-type tones I much prefer the Z-12. Actually for an all-around speaker that would be my choice. I don't have a C-Blue to compare but I have a Gold and that might be a better option for modern country guitar. I don't currently have a Creamback but I do have a pair of Neo-Creambacks and that speaker is becoming an all-around favorite also. The downside is the lower 97dB sensitivity. Not a problem with my Twin but with a 8-watt amp that might limit its usefulness. Also the Neo-Creamback may be a 65-watt speaker but it starts to sound round and full without having to push it too hard. I would think the ceramic Creamback would be very similar since they have the same cone.
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Post by micknelson on Jul 11, 2022 14:05:09 GMT -7
As I described in this forum last year, I changed out the Celestion G12H that originally came with my Maz 8 (in 2014) for a Celestion Blue and I liked that change very much. With the Blue, the "Middle" and "Cut" tone knobs became much more useful throughout their range. What I want to talk about here is the choice of power tube with the Blue. Dr. Z shipped my Maz 8 with a NOS 7189 (New Old Stock, Russian). I found my new Maz 8 to be ice picky, even after a lengthy break in period for the speaker. I replaced the power tube with an Electro Harmonix EL84 resulting in a warmer tone and earlier breakup. Later I switched out the power tube for a Mullard EL84 (new issue not original) which sounded good too. I later switched the G12H speaker for a Blue and that was a huge change in tone that I preferred. I recently replaced the power tube with a Tung-Sol 7189 and got a greatly improved tone. It gave me a more substantial, and focused, low end and nice sparkly highs. It also seems to bring out more detail from my guitars. So, for me, right now and, of course, subject to change, I think that the Tung-Sol 7189 with the Celestion Blue is the magical combination on the Maz 8. I believe that the Tung-Sol 7189 was recently introduced.
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