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Post by zpilot on Jul 2, 2016 5:41:22 GMT -7
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Post by heynewguy (Ol’ Bill) on Jul 2, 2016 7:48:22 GMT -7
Good to know. Thanks for posting. I've done a lot of business with Mike.
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Post by BritInvasion on Jul 2, 2016 13:57:09 GMT -7
Definitely good to know , I wasn't aware he updated the list. I get a lot of my tubes there too.
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Post by dergit (Markus) on Jul 3, 2016 4:22:54 GMT -7
Interesting. I use old soviet 6p14ps in my MAZ 8 with no problems... maybe the problem only occurs with the 2016 version?
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Post by DRZ on Jul 3, 2016 11:47:03 GMT -7
It isn't a problem KNA is full of you know what. He was selling fake NOS EL 84's and I believe Dave had a problem with them and instead of owning up to it he posted that on his website.
He loves to bad rap me, but he uses my name all over his site to sell tubes. I asked him to remove my name, he hasn't complied yet.
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Post by zpilot on Jul 3, 2016 12:55:54 GMT -7
D**m. I've been a long time customer of KCA NOS and Mike has always been a reliable source of tubes and info. I don't know what to think about this. I'm not doubting the Doc mind you. In fact I just checked the Tung-Sol data on EL84's and it shows the pinout with pins #1, #6 and #8 not connected. Buyer beware?
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Post by DRZ on Jul 3, 2016 14:36:23 GMT -7
"Buyer beware" of what Zpilot ? Pins 1,6 and 8 are not connected to anything on the EL 84 check tube bias 9CV for 6BQ5 Tung-Sol EL 84 equivalent . I use those pins on the socket as connecting points. KNA was selling relabeled 7189's as NOS EL 84's, the 7189's do connect pin 1 internally.
Now before you jump, the tubes the Tube Store is selling as 7189's are not true 7189's they are 6N14N EB's . They spec out in plate voltage and output wattage to the 7189 so he labels them that.
I have had my share of good deals with Mike K., but on other forums he takes shots at my designs when tubes he sells fail. So I did ask him to remove my company name from his site , which he uses to solicit customers. Sorry Mike K you can't have it both ways.
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Post by zpilot on Jul 3, 2016 19:44:43 GMT -7
What I meant was that when buying EL84's being represented as NOS I will need to actually check those pins (or at least #1) to make sure they are not connected internally. The ones I am interested in are EI labled that he claims are Tungsram.
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Post by DRZ on Jul 4, 2016 1:00:46 GMT -7
That is 100% correct Zpilot. I have addressed early MAZ 8's and removed the tie point from pin 1 (thanks Dave ). They have been " changed " for many years, so KNA claim is no longer valid. As he sells Ei EL 84's built to 7189A pin out configuration, as relabelled NOS Tungsram EL 84's which they are not.
Again I have had good dealings with Mike K., but on this issue I take offense.
To help clear this up: A typical EL 84 uses 9CV basing configuration were pin 1 is not connected. A 7189A uses 9LE basing configuration were pin 1 is connected to pin 2 internally. As noted by Dave Smith ( premiumplus screen name) some NOS labeled EL 84's use the 7189A basing of 9LE, so buyer beware . Stick with the tubes I designed the Z amp to use and you'll have no problems. If you do experiment make sure you do your homework and know a bit about what you are plugging into your expensive amp, please.
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Post by KeithA on Jul 4, 2016 3:31:41 GMT -7
Interesting. I don't get caught up in the NOS thing but I did order a set of those Preferred Series tubes in the past just for a hoot. Based on my limited research (I read the vendor site!) I thought a 7189 was merely an el84 variant that was simply renamed because of the higher spec tolerance, etc. Well, now I know !
i wonder if some people selling tubes don't really understand the intricate difference as well?
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jul 4, 2016 5:50:04 GMT -7
+10000, Dr. Z. The tube that I had trouble with was the one zpilot is talking about, the EI "Tungsram" tube. Pins 1 & 2 are internally connected. I'm pretty much done buying "NOS" or especially "ANOS" tubes. It seems like all that's left are old tubes that have been rejected by other vendors or used up tubes. About a year ago I bought a couple hundred bucks worth of RCA 12AX7s and of the 4, 2 were microphonic and I wasn't happy with the way any of them sounded. I've got old pulls from garage sale organs that sounded way better.
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Post by BritInvasion on Jul 4, 2016 6:16:57 GMT -7
^ I think Dave is right about that. The only NOS I'm buying now are 5AR4's and 12AT7's.
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Post by DRZ on Jul 4, 2016 6:56:28 GMT -7
I don't care what anybody says , as far as NOS Audio tubes we're down to " Stems and Seeds ".
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Post by pcns on Jul 4, 2016 8:29:04 GMT -7
Doc, you need to write a book with all of this knowledge in it. You could title it "stems and seeds"
Love the information share, thanks!!
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Post by prettynoiselab on Jul 13, 2016 11:52:19 GMT -7
I don't care what anybody says , as far as NOS Audio tubes we're down to " Stems and Seeds ". Doc, you nailed this one right on the head. Classic reference. Anyways, since you are the mastermind behind your amazing amps I'll be taking your advice on all my tube selections from now on.
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Jul 13, 2016 12:13:31 GMT -7
I've heard Doc say that same thing in the past. I've gone and bought (only a few) pricey NOS 12AX7's for V1 preamp positions, only to get frustrated when a $90 tube goes noisy on me after 2 months. So now I feel what Doc's talking about.
I'll note, too, that other highly-respected builders like Steve Carr and Mark Bartel are now recommending what most of us would consider "mid-grade" tubes in their designs. I think maybe I'm done with obsessively re-working my amps with NOS glass anymore. (At least, maybe I'll still seek out NOS 5751's and rectifiers, though. Who knows.)
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Post by wubberdubber on Jul 13, 2016 13:15:52 GMT -7
I don't care what anybody says , as far as NOS Audio tubes we're down to " Stems and Seeds ". Makes one wonder...with all the tube-driven amps out there, both old and new, and seemingly more new boutique builders sprouting up all the time...why has no one stepped up to manufacture consistently high-quality tubes? Newer tubes don't seem to be that much less of a crap-shoot than NOS, and quality comes and goes. ...??
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Jul 13, 2016 14:36:47 GMT -7
Tubes are for the most part hand made, and the quality depends on the human doing the building, among other variables. It's hard to get reliable people nowadays that will train and do a consistently high quality job at a job that admittedly becomes mind numbing. That coupled with the EPA regulations regarding the now "exotic" materials used in making vacuum tubes, along with the taxes and other limitations a start up business faces...add it all up and it amounts to a really difficult business endeavor. I doubt you could make much money doing it, especially here in the USA. It's a bummer.
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Post by dergit (Markus) on Jul 14, 2016 2:01:56 GMT -7
Also, whilst growing, the boutique amp market is still very much a niche market. Nowhere near big enough to create the demand for the the large scale and quality production of tubes we had before they were made obsolete by transistors in 99% of applications. Moreover, keep in mind that many tubes were made for military applications, requiring and financially allowing much tighter production tolerances than competitive consumer market production which is largely why NOS used to be "better" than current production. If I had to bet on where the market goes, useable audio tubes will probably go away at some point and some hipster places will start hand-making them and charging a lot of money for them.
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Post by zpilot on Jul 14, 2016 11:50:15 GMT -7
My stock of NOS tubes was mostly acquired at least 13 years ago so it may not be representative of what's available now. I kind of went overboard and bought enough to last me for what I thought would be the rest of my playing career. I've sold off most of the 6L6 types since I only have one amp left that uses those. I still have a dozen or so 12AX7's and 5751's and several rectifiers. I probably have 20 12AT7's. I even have several matched quads of JJ EL84's from about 2005 which pre-dates most of the rattle issues. These are the ones that were sold as the Ruby brand. Thankfully I won't have to deal with the current market if it is as uncertain as has been claimed.
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