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Post by zombieZ on Apr 27, 2016 18:50:16 GMT -7
So I was in need to find another guitar. I missed my '83 tele so I was keeping my eye out for a tele style. I Heard wonderful things about fan and decided to go to my local mom and pop shop to check a few out. The store carries all boutique and "high end" gear and I trust them. I Played the fan but the neck just didn't do it for me. I looked around on the walls and found one that caught my eye. A Kelton Swade brownie that was on consignment. I never hear of the builder so I talked to the owner and he raved, telling me Kelton's process and yada yada, I decided to give it a go. I played it and it felt and sounded great. I asked the owner who is a far better player than myself to give it a whirl so I could hear it from an outsider's perspective. It sounded great... I did a quick google search and saw the $$ on them from 3k-4k. The guitar had been on consignment for a few weeks and the owner said the guy was having a baby and had this guitar another guitar and a two rock amp on consignment. The price was 2,900 and they had two others in the store for 8-900$$ more. I threw a lowball offer of 2k at the owner and had him call the guy. The guy finally conceded and I left happy. I got home and I started to do further research and found all the negativity associated with this guy. It breaks my heart to be associated with anything negative like this. My only consolation is the price being half of a new one. Now I am trying to find some truth. I want to be able to discern if I have a great guitar with a bad egg as a builder or a bad egg builder who builds less than great instruments. I have been overthinking it for days now. The guitar sounds great and all but I feel unsettled about it. I can not return it as it was consignment, and talking about this guy on other forums is a lightning rod for hate and a crap fest. You guys here are more level headed and have always been respectful so I decided to man up and come to the place I trust for advice. I admit gas got the better of me and I made a rash decision on a guitar because it had the sound I was looking for, but... Should I try and unload this guitar?...I am sure the market is not great for small boutique guys like this, but I thought I got a great deal at less than half the new price. I am biased because I can own up to it and play the heck out of it despite the internet bash, but I am overthinking this. Or am I?
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Post by Paul (TRANE) on Apr 27, 2016 19:05:13 GMT -7
Well, even a bad guy can make great stuff. So if you connect with the guitar then I say play the snot out of it. You do not have to like the guy who made it. If asked you bought it used so no direct money support to Kelton. I say play it if you love it.
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Post by zombieZ on Apr 27, 2016 19:16:20 GMT -7
Well, even a bad guy can make great stuff. So if you connect with the guitar then I say play the snot out of it. You do not have to like the guy who made it. If asked you bought it used so no direct money support to Kelton. I say play it if you love it. Thank you. I might not have a choice. Just having trouble shaking the feeling that even used I might have purchased a guitar with questionable quality. If the builder can not be trusted as a person, can he be trusted as a builder? I know I can not or will not judge him personally by the internet, just trying to get my bearing of where I stand. I feel like he might have subpar parts. I mean I have heard $200 guitars sound fantastic. I guess I am trying to gauge if my purchase was not a rip off or bad choice. GAS can definitely override the brain. I can easily separate myself from the builder and I am happy that my money went to someone else with a good cause (baby). I am by no means one to judge or talk bad about someone and that is definitely no what I am doing here. I just am curious if anyone else has any experience with one of these guitars...or opinions. That inks again P.
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Post by dreamlander on Apr 27, 2016 21:27:38 GMT -7
I have never heard of these so I had to read a little to see what you were talking about. Honestly I couldn't get through much without getting annoyed by the haters.
Here is what I got out of it. The guy is great at marketing, but may or may not have some process thats gives his "allparts" guitar builds some mojo. It seems he is straight foward about his guitars and isn't being deceptive. Are they overpriced? Maybe (probably imo). But if it plays and sounds great to you, who cares? Don't get hung up on what others think, especially trolls roaming on guitar forums.
I can understand why you might have buyers remorse though, but here is how I look at it. The main gripe I see people talking about is the idea that he sources all his parts, personalizes them, puts them together, and sells them for high prices. I might be out of line but is this much different than what fender custom shop does? They take cnc'd parts, relic them, stamp fender on them, and sell them for high prices. I personally prefer buying a used mim fender tele for $300. I can understand why people b*tch about this builders practices because his markup seems quite high, but once again, if you like yours forget about it. I see consistency being more of an issue, but you bought it in hand. So just enjoy it.
Now the subject of resale is something entirely different. Considering this, you might just try to be happy that you have a guitar you like and don't let it get to you that the builder is a good marketer.
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Post by j4gitr (John) on Apr 27, 2016 22:08:09 GMT -7
Not familiar with the builder or the guitar, but when you said "it felt and sounded great," that was enough. You obviously felt it was worth what you paid for it. Had you not read this stuff on the Internet you'd still be happy. I've been in a similar situation with a bass cabinet purchase. Unscrupulous merchant who ripped off many, taken to court, etc. etc. two separate threads on this guy in a particular bass forum with over 30 pages of complaining posts in each thread. I got my stuff from him. I'm lucky. I feel bad for others, but the cabinets are great. I'm happy, he's getting what he deserves; he's virtually out of business. If something goes wrong, I'll have it fixed. I dodged a bullet, but came away clean. You've gotten a guitar at a price that makes you happy. When it's time to upgrade something, you will, but not at his hands. In the meantime, quit feeding into the negativity. Don't read anymore about it just do what Paul said; "...play the snot out of it." Enjoy your new axe.
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Post by zombieZ on Apr 27, 2016 22:16:45 GMT -7
Thanks dreamlander, you make some very valid points. I do enjoy it, as it sounds fantastic. I understand the trolls, haters, and partscaster bashers, and that was what I was sorting out. I just wanted perspective from someone and it seemed impossible to get anything than hate from other un-named forums.
The only downside now is that I was looking into Nash but wanted to stay away from partscasters, but I was told he was hand making these in Nashville, so after playing I took the bait lol. Maybe it was a good catch, maybe not. I will play the Heck out of it regardless. Maybe I paid too much even at half the price new, but never the less I have settled knowing it is a parstcaster, aside from his hand wound pickups. I was never a relic kind of guy, but this one was so ugly that she was pretty.
At the end of a day I learned a few valuable lessons..and I will learn to live with that.
i am not a Keith Urban fan per-say, but I can respect his guitar chops. He seems to be the only credible source of a "big" artist that acknowledges K.S. builds. I was wanting to get a few possible insights from others if they had any experience with these guitars. Then again I guess the only opinion that matters is my own.
I sincerely appreciate the straight talk fellas.
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Post by zombieZ on Apr 27, 2016 22:20:19 GMT -7
Not familiar with the builder or the guitar, but when you said "it felt and sounded great," that was enough. You obviously felt it was worth what you paid for it. Had you not read this stuff on the Internet you'd still be happy. I've been in a similar situation with a bass cabinet purchase. Unscrupulous merchant who ripped off many, taken to court, etc. etc. two separate threads on this guy in a particular bass forum with over 30 pages of complaining posts in each thread. I got my stuff from him. I'm lucky. I feel bad for others, but the cabinets are great. I'm happy, he's getting what he deserves; he's virtually out of business. If something goes wrong, I'll have it fixed. I dodged a bullet, but came away clean. You've gotten a guitar at a price that makes you happy. When it's time to upgrade something, you will, but not at his hands. In the meantime, quit feeding into the negativity. Don't read anymore about it just do what Paul said; "...play the snot out of it." Enjoy your new axe. Well said, thank you kindly for the input. It is definitely taken to heart sir. I definitely do not want to contribute to the hate, quite the opposite, I was trying o find and share love for this guitar. However all I received was hate. I knew Z talk would be a place of honest talk and zero hate. Thank You again.
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Post by j4gitr (John) on Apr 27, 2016 22:34:53 GMT -7
The main gripe I see people talking about is the idea that he sources all his parts, personalizes them, puts them together, and sells them for high prices. I might be out of line but is this much different than what fender custom shop does? They take cnc'd parts, relic them, stamp fender on them, and sell them for high prices. I personally prefer buying a used mim fender tele for $300. I can understand why people b*tch about this builders practices because his markup seems quite high, but once again, if you like yours forget about it. I see consistency being more of an issue, but you bought it in hand. So just enjoy it. Now the subject of resale is something entirely different. Considering this, you might just try to be happy that you have a guitar you like and don't let it get to you that the builder is a good marketer. To add to what dreamlander said, everyone is sourcing parts. It's the big names that can do it cheaper because of volume. They can also spec a part in a way that allows them to shave cost. Without doing research on your particular builder i can't say, but you may have better components on your build than a Fender CS etc.
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Post by dreamlander on Apr 27, 2016 22:39:44 GMT -7
I am not sure who said he was making these "hand built", but if it was the shop you bought it from, or the consignment seller, I would probably let them know the real story. A lot of the "hand built" and "made in USA" titles is a semantics game, and it can be a bit of a fuzzy line that is sometimes used for marketing. Much like "natural" and "organic" labeling in the supermarket. Most of the speakers and amps I use are all built in the USA, yet almost every part of them is manufactured in other countries and just put together here. Does it make them any less fantastic? Nope.
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Post by zombieZ on Apr 27, 2016 23:23:23 GMT -7
The main gripe I see people talking about is the idea that he sources all his parts, personalizes them, puts them together, and sells them for high prices. I might be out of line but is this much different than what fender custom shop does? They take cnc'd parts, relic them, stamp fender on them, and sell them for high prices. I personally prefer buying a used mim fender tele for $300. I can understand why people b*tch about this builders practices because his markup seems quite high, but once again, if you like yours forget about it. I see consistency being more of an issue, but you bought it in hand. So just enjoy it. Now the subject of resale is something entirely different. Considering this, you might just try to be happy that you have a guitar you like and don't let it get to you that the builder is a good marketer. To add to what dreamlander said, everyone is sourcing parts. It's the big names that can do it cheaper because of volume. They can also spec a part in a way that allows them to shave cost. Without doing research on your particular builder i can't say, but you may have better components on your build than a Fender CS etc. That is a very nice point.
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Post by zombieZ on Apr 27, 2016 23:28:41 GMT -7
I am not sure who said he was making these "hand built", but if it was the shop you bought it from, or the consignment seller, I would probably let them know the real story. A lot of the "hand built" and "made in USA" titles is a semantics game, and it can be a bit of a fuzzy line that is sometimes used for marketing. Much like "natural" and "organic" labeling in the supermarket. Most of the speakers and amps I use are all built in the USA, yet almost every part of them is manufactured in other countries and just put together here. Does it make them any less fantastic? Nope. I agree 100 percent. Value can be very subjective, I guess and semantics are definitely in play. I will paying a visit to the shop this week to chat, also I will play a few of the new ones they have in the store to check consistency. I can not see myself putting any more cash into this particular builder, but none the less I will enjoy the one I now own. Thanks again guys, I will sleep a bit better tonight. After doing a bit of double stop work of course Cheers
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Post by Christopher on Apr 28, 2016 5:31:18 GMT -7
If it's any consolation Vince Gill has his Swade Telecaster copy and Strat for sale b/c he's clearing space (@$4000 each). I saw a link to it the other day on Gruhn guitars. I have "clones" for lack of a better adjective my main ones being the two Collings (290 & City Limits) which are reinterpretations of the Gibsons they mimic. To me the guitars play great and I don't worry about everyone not liking them bc of their nod to Gibson. I say this b/c in a world of boutique guitars there are some great builders: Nash, Grosh, Swede, Dano, Bilt, Elliot, etc. but for myself I can't justify $2K for a bolt on anything. Partscasters are here to stay and to your concern I'd play the $#!* out of that guitar. You did get a good price and if you are moved, as you initially stated in your GAS expedition, to play it and inspired then get off the 'net and play your guitar. That's where you'll get your money's worth and if you're concerned about flipping the guitar you probably shouldn't have bought it without researching first. Believe me, I crossed that bridge once and blew it up afterwards. MJT jazzmaster that wasn't worth the kindling it could become thanks to "internet hype". Anyway, enjoy your new guitar and play it for a year. If it still beckons you to play it, keep it.
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Post by JeffG on Apr 28, 2016 9:11:52 GMT -7
I echo what everyone else has said - if you like it then play it. If it makes you want to play, if there are songs in that thing, then keep it. As the kids say, "Haters gonna hate."
However, if you're in a pinch for cash, then sell it and use that $ for something else you can be happy with.
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Post by fishyfishfish on Apr 28, 2016 13:49:56 GMT -7
Personally I would look at the end result of a product and not by Internet rep. We buy products everyday that have some sort of scandle or environmental disaster or take your pick of bad, the difference is most music equipment company's do not have a huge PR firm fixing or running defense when things get sideways. I would play the frets off that thing if you like it.
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Post by zombieZ on Apr 28, 2016 22:16:56 GMT -7
Very valid points.
I am playing the thing and can not put it down. It is it's own beast and I am exploring it. The internet got to me on this one. I liked the guitar and still do, just did not want to associated with anything negative...however I have conceded to accept my reason for buying it in the first place and with every note realize more so why I did in the first place. Thank you so very kindly. I definitely learned a few valuable things here during all of this. I can not thank each of you enough for talking me through this.
Best regards
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