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Post by fut0k0 on Nov 3, 2015 17:20:12 GMT -7
Hello. I think I've narrowed down my amp search to a MAZ 8 and a Mini Z. I'm looking for some advice and input from people that have used / owned both.
I play for myself and my own enjoyment; nothing professional or anything along those lines. I play almost exclusively in an apartment as well, so volume is a major concern (I've basically given up on anything over 10 watts). I usually play a Tele. I like a jangly sound, bright, and things that are on the edge of breakup. Actually, I like a lot of sounds, but those two are near the top of the list.
Would one of those amps (the MAZ 8 or the Mini Z) be more suited for my particular situation than the other? As far as volume goes, the Mini Z has the attenuator, but the MAZ 8 has the master volume. Can the MAZ 8 be brought down to Mini Z volume levels while still sounding good?
Bottom line is I want something I can play and enjoy in an apartment.
Extra info if you're an avid reader: My amp history has been a Fender Bullet Reverb (first amp), Orange AD30R, and a Fender Pro Junior. I've also played a bunch of simulators and amp software and what not. I bought the Pro Junior earlier this year to play in the apartment. The volume onset on that amp is so sudden that I really couldn't play it–it goes from nothing to blaring. I bought a Weber MiniMass attenuator, but by the time I attenuated the amp down to an appropriate level, the sound was awful. I then bought a Brake Lite to see what that could do, and on max attenuation I can use the amp at 2 (mind you, the amp starts at 1 and not 0). I just sold my Orange because trying to tame 30 watts wasn't going to happen.
I've got a Brake Lite already, which I could use with the MAZ 8. But I don't care about the reverb. And although I could swing it, I'm not thrilled about the extra cost. And the Mini Z only has two tubes, much cheaper to replace than a full set. And only 1 knob; I kind of like that. Then again, if I don't love the sound of the Mini Z, I'll be wishing for that tone stack on the MAZ 8.
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Post by "Z" Steve on Nov 3, 2015 18:45:32 GMT -7
Welcome to the forum!
I will start off by saying I have never played a Mini Z, but the versatility you would get with a Maz 8 would be great. It is like having 3 different amps with the Pentode/Triode/tone cut options, so it can be louder than you want but as quiet as you need - especially if you already own a Brakelite. But I will step aside and let some folks who have owned both chime in!
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Post by purpletele on Nov 4, 2015 1:57:06 GMT -7
Fut0K0,
I recently stumbled upon a power amp that solved my quest of great tone at apartment levels. I have an Air Brake that works quite well however the bedroom level just doesn't allow for that tone. I recently bought a Fryette Power Station, in fact I am enjoying it now.
I am in my Garage/Studio which has a sectional door. Zero sound attenuation from the door so I can't play uninhibited. The door is being replaced soon. I have my 18 Wattt 1974x out here, the Z is in the house.
I have my 74x cranked to approximately 2:00, which would blow the doors off just as the Maz Jr would. The Power Station is processing that signal through a pair of 6L6's and then signal can be lowered to a whisper and still have screaming harmonics. It also works to boost a small amp, but that is not the mission.
It works so well it is opening up my inhibitions and allowing me to push my own boundaries where I have been concerned about neighbors and sound. Note that I am still in a detached garaged and not on the other side of a wall from a neighbor.
My ultimate point is that I feel like I am getting that holy grail tone at super low volume with my cool amps. This system can work for you and allow you to buy a bigger Z amp if you choose. I am going to add a PPIMV to my 74X, the concept of a PPIMV on an amp like the Remedy may also be an option for you, it certainly will be for me in the future.
I haven't had the chance to hear a Dr. Z amp with a PPIMV, but I think that may be another solution for me and possibly you with the 'Apartment Complex'.
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Post by dergit (Markus) on Nov 4, 2015 3:40:22 GMT -7
Two weeks ago, I thoroughly tested combo versions of both and took home the MAZ 8 Studio without hesitation. For my money, even at double the price, it's in a completely different league.
The Mini is a mere practice amp and it sounded great but very small and boxed in, almost nasal, to me. The MAZ 8 sounds like a full sized amp even at very low levels. The sparkling treble, the round, tight bass – it's all there. In triode mode it's considerably more quiet (and dirty) than in pentode mode and you can get it as quiet as the Mini without any attenuation at comparable saturation levels because of the very usable master volume.
Add to that the Brake Lite (I use the Air Brake at home) and you can dial in most of its tones at actual bedroom levels. If you're a fan of poweramp saturation as I am, and need to be *really* quiet, maybe trade the Brake Lite in for an Air Brake. But see how it goes first. In my inner city flat, I get very usable tones without any attenuation, my dream tone (all dials somewhere around noon, except reverb which is almost off), with the Air Brake on 4 and completely cranked, nasty, fuzzy, burning tube sounds with the Air Brake on full whack.
My neighbours haven't complained yet and they've complained about me hitting electronic drum pads before.
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Post by doctorice on Nov 4, 2015 5:16:04 GMT -7
No Mini Z experience here, but I think dergit nailed it. The MAZ 8 is a fantastic, albeit pricey for 8 watts, package. But those are Z watts. It is plenty loud in my practice room with the Brake Lite on 3 in triode mode. With great tone and a huge amount of flexibility.
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Post by Easyrom on Nov 4, 2015 7:52:23 GMT -7
Hi, I've been through the same question a few years ago and went with the Maz 8 (with installed Brake Lite), with no regret. It is so much more polyvalent than the Mini Z and still very usable at home (Brake Lite @2 for me most of the time, sometimes @3 and really rarely @4 when I want to dime eventing on the amp and use the EQ booster). For someone having only one amp home compatible, the Maz 8 is hard to beat. The triode / pentode switch is on its own a fabulous option, which gives you two amps in one. I've just had and sold a Therapy and I'm waiting for my Z-Lux to come, but if I'm really honest, I think the Maz 8 is the Z amp which really fits my needs completely. Good search!
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Post by zed on Nov 4, 2015 9:26:19 GMT -7
I own both, a Maz 8 head and the Mini combo.
I agree with what's already been stated, the Maz 8 is my go to amp at home.
It's a bit of a beast for only 8 watts, as mentioned, an attenuator may still be needed in an apartment. I'm in a five piece band, reasonable level as the drummer isn't a heavy hitter and the Maz 8 hung in there with ease.
dergit pretty well nailed the comparison.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2015 10:51:10 GMT -7
Hi, I've been through the same question a few years ago and went with the Maz 8 (with installed Brake Lite), with no regret. It is so much more polyvalent than the Mini Z and still very usable at home (Brake Lite @2 for me most of the time, sometimes @3 and really rarely @4 when I want to dime eventing on the amp and use the EQ booster). For someone having only one amp home compatible, the Maz 8 is hard to beat. The triode / pentode switch is on its own a fabulous option, which gives you two amps in one. I've just had and sold a Therapy and I'm waiting for my Z-Lux to come, but if I'm really honest, I think the Maz 8 is the Z amp which really fits my needs completely. Good search! There's that word again!!!
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Nov 4, 2015 16:19:50 GMT -7
Another vote for the Maz 8. I own them both, and the Maz is so much more in every way. dergit nailed it, and I agree with everyone else's comments too. My only regret is that I got mine in Surf Green instead of Red...ha!
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Post by Easyrom on Nov 4, 2015 16:23:54 GMT -7
Hi, I've been through the same question a few years ago and went with the Maz 8 (with installed Brake Lite), with no regret. It is so much more polyvalent than the Mini Z and still very usable at home (Brake Lite @2 for me most of the time, sometimes @3 and really rarely @4 when I want to dime eventing on the amp and use the EQ booster). For someone having only one amp home compatible, the Maz 8 is hard to beat. The triode / pentode switch is on its own a fabulous option, which gives you two amps in one. I've just had and sold a Therapy and I'm waiting for my Z-Lux to come, but if I'm really honest, I think the Maz 8 is the Z amp which really fits my needs completely. Good search! There's that word again!!! I have such a hard time to use it at least once in every post!
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Post by fut0k0 on Nov 4, 2015 16:54:51 GMT -7
I really appreciate the responses, everyone. Thank you. I don't have the opportunity to play both before buying so I'm trying to gather as much info as I can.
I've hit that point where what I buy from now on I want to be able to use for the rest of my life. So I'm willing to put a little more money into it as long as I can enjoy it and use it regularly. While still getting the "right tool for the job" (in other words, I know 15 or 20 watts is overkill). Sounds like it might be worth the extra $800 to just go for the MAZ 8.
I miss the Orange AD30R combo, but at 30 watts I had to let it go. It just wasn't being used.
edit: Thanks dergit for the comparison and background info on your situation.
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Post by ME on Nov 4, 2015 17:32:23 GMT -7
I've had both and find the MAZ 8 to be the better amp. The Mini was fun, but went to fund a '54 Gold Top reissue. Note that neither amp is "low volume" when I play them... ME
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Post by dergit (Markus) on Nov 5, 2015 1:58:43 GMT -7
Another vote for the Maz 8. I own them both, and the Maz is so much more in every way. dergit nailed it, and I agree with everyone else's comments too. My only regret is that I got mine in Surf Green instead of Red...ha! Like her older and much heavier 18 watt 2x10" sister, mine's a purrrrrdy blonde! As you can see, I can run her fairly open with the Air Brake on Bedroom Level. Again, this is in an apartment building in the centre of Munich, a rather quiet city. If I turn up the master past that, she mostly gets dirtier, not that much louder. She's set at that sweet spot (which, interestingly, comes a bit earlier on my 18) where the poweramp stage properly compresses and just starts to break up but isn't full-on dirt yet. The preamp volume is at that same point as well (again, already comes at around 10 o'clock on my Jr. with the guitar in Lo input! Apparently, the older sister just tends to get dirty a lot quicker). So both gain stages do their best work to my ears. I get completely clean chords with the volume on my guitar dialed back a bit and I get chimey crunch with the guitar open while it still eats pedals well, blending pedal drive and her own overdrive perfectly. If you like your amp completely dirty all the time, you're probably going to have to rely more on preamp overdrive, which does increase the volume, and turn down the master still, depending on what "bedroom level" means to you. Without attenuation, she can easily hang with a somewhat civilised band. If I weren't too lazy to carry a tube combo up four flights of stairs every weekend or so, I'd possibly let the 18 go. This is the perfect amp. Then again, when I have to rely on my amp in small but stuffed clubs, I'm quite happy to have the 2x10"s. I've never needed the full 18 watts, the Brake Lite is always at least at 2 with the amp set as described above. But then again, I could always get a 1x12" cab to go with the 8... ah... WRT to the reverb: 2x10 sounds more 3-dimensional than 1x12. I've noticed this when comparing the different versions of the 18 combo in February when I got my first Z. I liked it a lot more then and it was the main argument against the studio cabinet. The 2x10" sounds big and doesn't need reverb, which is why I went for the NR. But: A touch of reverb can compensate that to a point. Just turn it up until you notice the reverb decay and then turn it down a notch again and play for 5 minutes. Then turn it off and see how flat the amp sounds compared to before when you just added a touch. You'll probably never turn it off completely again, except for recording. If you want this purchase to be the amp you use for the rest of your life, the choice gets even easier. /rant over. I just love these amps.
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Post by purpletele on Nov 5, 2015 3:14:41 GMT -7
Dergit,
Cool setup. Very European. What speaker did you get with blondie? Are you going to change V1 or does the amp have a less spikey treble than the Maz Jr. ?
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Post by dergit (Markus) on Nov 5, 2015 7:42:37 GMT -7
There was a Mullard ECC83 in V1 and I liked it... don't know if the Doc put it in or the dealer but it's tubed very differently than the Jr! There was a 6p14p instead of an EL84 from the start, a JJ rectifier rather than the Sovtek and some funky tubes in V2 to V4. But I like it so I'm not going to mess with it. For now. //edit: there's a G12H30 in there!
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Post by fut0k0 on Nov 5, 2015 17:28:20 GMT -7
Thanks for the picture of the settings. It's nice to see the master doesn't have to be down around 7 o'clock. I agree with you about a touch of reverb; I just normally get it from a pedal.
Hopefully this wouldn't be the only amp I own for the rest of my life! But certainly I'm only interested in acquiring keepers. I don't want to buy amps to play for a year or two, then sell and / or move on from because they weren't a good fit or became boring. Just interested in buying quality units that are appropriate for my needs and will last and keep me happy. So the MAZ 8 is starting to seem like a better choice than the Mini Z.
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Post by Stephen on Nov 5, 2015 19:04:57 GMT -7
I bought the Mini-Z first and use it for practice at home, but the Maz 8 is the only amp I use at Church. I have also used it at band rehearsals and small bar gigs with great success. I recommend the studio cab.
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Post by dergit (Markus) on Dec 6, 2015 11:52:46 GMT -7
fut0k0, what's the story. What'd you end up going for? purpletele: I european'd it up even more for you!
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Post by purpletele on Dec 6, 2015 12:06:29 GMT -7
European Efficiency on display!
What a nice work area. I am working swiftly on my studio area to keep up.
BV
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Post by Easyrom on Dec 6, 2015 12:32:20 GMT -7
fut0k0, what's the story. What'd you end up going for? purpletele : I european'd it up even more for you! Wow!
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garfy
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Post by garfy on Dec 7, 2015 4:54:29 GMT -7
Fantastic setup dergit, I've got my Maz8 with a JJ5751 and Celestion Blue....wow the valve change has really made a difference, more headroom and warmer. I also did the footswitch mod with a volume pot...awesome boost now!! This baby really sings now!
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Dec 7, 2015 5:35:27 GMT -7
I went back and forth a few times with the G12H30 and the Celestion Blue. I ended up with the G12H30 because of the tighter bass...but those Blue mids are sooo sweet. And the footswitch mod is great with the 8. I used a 250K audio taper on mine.
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garfy
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Post by garfy on Dec 7, 2015 12:14:02 GMT -7
I went back and forth a few times with the G12H30 and the Celestion Blue. I ended up with the G12H30 because of the tighter bass...but those Blue mids are sooo sweet. And the footswitch mod is great with the 8. I used a 250K audio taper on mine. 250k log here on mine, well worth the 20 mins or so it took with a drill and a soldering iron. Im toying with putting an Eminence Swamp Thang in as i use pedals for overdrive and Muff sounds.. Anyone tried this in an 8
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Post by ME on Dec 7, 2015 14:18:42 GMT -7
I went back and forth a few times with the G12H30 and the Celestion Blue. I ended up with the G12H30 because of the tighter bass...but those Blue mids are sooo sweet. And the footswitch mod is great with the 8. I used a 250K audio taper on mine. 250k log here on mine, well worth the 20 mins or so it took with a drill and a soldering iron. Im toying with putting an Eminence Swamp Thang in as i use pedals for overdrive and Muff sounds.. Anyone tried this in an 8 Studio cab with 16 ohm Greenback and a Traynor Darkhorse cabinet 16 ohm G12M65 Creamback. I use pedals for tone and boost when playing with the band. Tone bypass in triode mode is my favourite using R4. I generally don't dig out the pedals at home. Just crank either volume up and adjust the other for loudness. May use the BrakeLite now and then. ME
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