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Post by DreamTheaterRules on Oct 12, 2015 22:42:55 GMT -7
New here. I've been interested in a Dr. Z amps for years, and the Monza for quite a while, but still haven't had the chance to play one. I've read a lot about the amp. I've listened to demos. What I'm curious about is the character of the gain, and the voicing of the amp. I've read, and seen videos where it was described as like a high gain tweed, and others that said it was like a Marshall. Those are two very different things. So that's the "character" of the gain that I'm asking about.
Given that there is no T/M/B tone stack, I'm also curious about the voicing. The videos I've seen sounded good to very good. But without a T/M/B I realize that it's voice is what it is, and there won't be a lot of changing it. Yet, I read here a lot of guys drooling over them. I've never quite heard the real magic of a great amp via You Tube. You get an idea, but I think the better the amp is, the more that's lost via You Tube demos.
I've been wanting one of these for a few years now. Now I'm really close to pulling the trigger and I figure I'd better ask. Oh, and there are no Dr. Z dealers within 3 hours of me, or I'd already have played and owned a couple of them by now.
Lastly, I'd LOVE a red 1x10 combo (I've been lurking here for quite a while and see how many others agree with me about how cool the red Z's are!) but I have a chance to get a head, and I have a 12" Red Fang in a custom cab already waiting and ready to go.
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Post by purpletele on Oct 12, 2015 23:48:14 GMT -7
I had the same demographic challenge with finding a dealer where I could play the Maz Jr. I ended up going with my feelings of what I did hear and see on the Z video's. I ended up buying my amp from Chicago Music and that was pleasant.
You will get some great descriptions tomorrow. I am curious about all of the amps. I recommend the video that was linked today. Great review of the business and the fundamentals of the amps including tubes and speakers. I don't think he discussed the Monza in the video.
If I were going to buy a new amp I would buy it from one of the folks on this forum. We are an obsessed group of gear heads. The deals that are out there today are just torture.
I went online to check out the Monza. Wow! I think that video nails it. Looks like a fun amp.
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Post by Maddog on Oct 13, 2015 5:37:16 GMT -7
What I'm curious about is the character of the gain, and the voicing of the amp. I've read, and seen videos where it was described as like a high gain tweed, and others that said it was like a Marshall. Those are two very different things. So that's the "character" of the gain that I'm asking about. You state,"Those are two very different things."
Well brother....not always. Some Marshalls were/are almost direct copies of Fender tweeds. eg: The Tweed Bassman and JTM 45's are very, very similar amps component-wise, and sonically as well. That may be where some of the confusion lies.
I personally think the voicing of the Monza is pretty consistent with a "four hole" Marshall such as a plexi, but then I've also gotten the "Live at Leeds" sound from it too, and that was a Fender '57 tweed Bandmaster (I think).
Suffice it to say, the tones most folks liken the Monza to, are ZZ Tops first two albums.....Hence the moniker, "Billy in a box!"
One thing I did to alter the character of the Monza is to use a clean boost (at unity gain) in front of the amp, and employed the boost's TMB to alter the tone. That works very well. But the Monza is just a really fun, addictive amp all by itself....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 9:01:14 GMT -7
DTR, maybe I can offer a little assistance since I was in this boat not all that long ago.
I've been playing for about 20 years. My original rig when I started playing professionally was a Mesa DC3 and a Mark III combo. Around 2000 or so I gravitated to Rectifiers and my rig consisted of a Dual Rec head and a Rectoverb combo. As we all know, that sound ended up getting played out pretty quickly and I found myself looking for less gain and more character. I brought back the old Mark III I owned and paired it with a Mesa F50 and that was my primary rig until I scored a Maz 38 last year. The Mark III went bye bye and now the F50 is about to be replaced with a Monza. You can get a wide range of tones out of just a couple amp knobs and the controls on your guitar. One thing about the Monza that I absolutely love is that chords do not get lost in the mush of the gain. One of my complaints about Mesa's is that the gain structure becomes too compressed too easily and allows open chords to get lost in the gain. Not the case with the Monza (or any Z amp, for that matter).
Over the last 2 years, I've found my tastes changing and myself really jonesing for overdriven Vox, Matchless and Plexi type tones, and the Maz 38 paired with a Monza offers up everything I need at the moment.
Dave Baker's Monza demo is awesome and showcases the master volume very well. I found his demo to be a little on the fizzy side, though. The video with the dude opening up with a giant swell of glorious feedback might be a better representation of the Monza.
Good luck in your search. I don't think you'd be disappointed with a Monza.
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Post by DreamTheaterRules on Oct 13, 2015 9:51:29 GMT -7
Thanks so much for the replies. Being a new guy here, I didn't want to post a book about what I have and have tried, or what music I like/play etc.
M-D, Yes, I should have been more specific in addressing the Marshall/Tweed thing because I'm aware of the models that are similar. I was referring more to several examples of demos where guys were claiming the Monza sounded like a hot JCM800 or something. So the indication was more "crunchy" gain, rather than the more "fuzzy" gain of higher gain of many tweed style circuits. Of course, "Billy in a box" sounds more like the latter.
I've been interested in many models of Z over the years. Come close to buying a Maz Jr. several times, as it is often referred to as one of the most versatile Z amps. But this little screaming Monza has really caught my eye as I do like some gain on occasion. :-)
I currently own- PRS 2 Channel H, PRS 2 Channel Custom, Mesa Mini Rectifier, Mesa TA15, Mesa Mark V25. I'm selling the Mini Rec and 2 Channel H, and looking to get my first Dr. Z. The Monza sure sounds like a fun choice. Although, after reading here for a few months, I really really really would like the red 1x10 combo.
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Post by Maddog on Oct 13, 2015 15:47:09 GMT -7
^^^^^Good luck brother let us know what you decide.
We're pretty darn good at helping spend our brethren's hard-earned pay....
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Post by southbound57 on Oct 13, 2015 19:33:30 GMT -7
Where are you located?
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Post by DreamTheaterRules on Oct 14, 2015 22:43:56 GMT -7
near Cincinnati
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Post by mtlrecords on Oct 15, 2015 6:51:13 GMT -7
There seems to be a fair amount of people claiming the Monza is a "Billy in a Box" or that it's a mini Marshall. I can't disagree with that, but I would say that if you get the master volume version and run it through goodspeakers, you can get a variety of tones.
It's got a tighter low end than any of the MAZ series stuff (ie easier to palm mute, less flub) and can go from almost clean to fuzz. It's "voicing" is very Marshall plexi to my ears. However, since there's a tube rectifier, a limited T/M/B tonestack (IMO Z EQ's tend to be more subtle) and a circuit that as the volume goes up, gets a little looser, the Monza at certain settings can react like a tweed amp.
My only issue with the Monza was that I really kind of liked the distortion quality of the amp at mid volume and I really needed the amp at full volume to work in my loud rock band. So I found myself pairing the Monza with another 20-30 watt amp set mildly crunchy just to add some more volume. I liked the master on the Monza between noon-2 on the dial- settings higher than that seemed to increase the sag in the sound, at least in my rig.
YMMV and most people would much prefer to use the master below 2 o'clock AND/OR enjoy the slight sag that happens after that. I just like a little more of a "tight" sound for my rock stuff. So I'm using the Remedy with a treble booster at the moment and have let the monza go. Best of luck to you and I'm only offering my experience as an example, hopefully not a deterrent. I wish I could afford to have kept it, it's so fun to play!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2015 8:50:58 GMT -7
There seems to be a fair amount of people claiming the Monza is a "Billy in a Box" or that it's a mini Marshall. I can't disagree with that, but I would say that if you get the master volume version and run it through goodspeakers, you can get a variety of tones. It's got a tighter low end than any of the MAZ series stuff (ie easier to palm mute, less flub) and can go from almost clean to fuzz. It's "voicing" is very Marshall plexi to my ears. However, since there's a tube rectifier, a limited T/M/B tonestack (IMO Z EQ's tend to be more subtle) and a circuit that as the volume goes up, gets a little looser, the Monza at certain settings can react like a tweed amp. My only issue with the Monza was that I really kind of liked the distortion quality of the amp at mid volume and I really needed the amp at full volume to work in my loud rock band. So I found myself pairing the Monza with another 20-30 watt amp set mildly crunchy just to add some more volume. I liked the master on the Monza between noon-2 on the dial- settings higher than that seemed to increase the sag in the sound, at least in my rig. YMMV and most people would much prefer to use the master below 2 o'clock AND/OR enjoy the slight sag that happens after that. I just like a little more of a "tight" sound for my rock stuff. So I'm using the Remedy with a treble booster at the moment and have let the monza go. Best of luck to you and I'm only offering my experience as an example, hopefully not a deterrent. I wish I could afford to have kept it, it's so fun to play! What type of music are you playing, MTL???
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Post by helmi on Oct 15, 2015 16:20:52 GMT -7
third street music in Marietta ohio is within 3 hours of you. ask for matt. there a Z dealer. his info is on the dr.z web page under dealers.
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Post by mtlrecords on Oct 15, 2015 16:24:24 GMT -7
Irreversal: I play with a touring indie rock band with two guitars, bass and drums. I use a Marshall or Z amp and the other guy likes Twins. My other band is a vaguely math/prog rock trio that does not tour, barely even wants to play out! Ha ha!
Both are fun and I love the quest of different tones for different projects. I also do a fair amount of recording, both behind the console for others and session work playing a slew of instruments.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2015 17:09:26 GMT -7
Irreversal: I play with a touring indie rock band with two guitars, bass and drums. I use a Marshall or Z amp and the other guy likes Twins. My other band is a vaguely math/prog rock trio that does not tour, barely even wants to play out! Ha ha! Both are fun and I love the quest of different tones for different projects. I also do a fair amount of recording, both behind the console for others and session work playing a slew of instruments. Awesome, your comments on the Remedy almost have me wanting to go find one with a master volume. My only experience with a Remedy was a non-master version.
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Post by mtlrecords on Oct 15, 2015 17:27:23 GMT -7
Irreversal: I play with a touring indie rock band with two guitars, bass and drums. I use a Marshall or Z amp and the other guy likes Twins. My other band is a vaguely math/prog rock trio that does not tour, barely even wants to play out! Ha ha! Both are fun and I love the quest of different tones for different projects. I also do a fair amount of recording, both behind the console for others and session work playing a slew of instruments. Awesome, your comments on the Remedy almost have me wanting to go find one with a master volume. My only experience with a Remedy was a non-master version. I like the Remedy for more classic rock tones a'la Thin Lizzy. If I'm using pedals, like a Beano Boost or a Wampler Sovereign I can take the Remedy into late 70's/early 80's metal tones. To my ears the Remedy has a "softer" response or attack than some amps like a JCM 800 or a Laney AOR for example, which have more gain and more "chug" for heavier stuff readily at hand. The elusive tightness that guys playing heavy stuff seek is more apparent with pedals through the Remedy than without, IMO. But the Remedy is an excellent choice if you're coming from a JTM 45, JMP 50 or Plexi background and looking for something either a little different or lower volume. It's not as jangly as my Germino C45 but it's got similar midrange stoutness and sag. Cheers!
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Post by supernaut on Oct 18, 2015 12:03:06 GMT -7
DreamTheaterRules, I won't really comment on the "character" of the gain because that is SO subjective. I will say the following: 1)If you get a Monza, make sure you get 1 with the master volume (or add it to an older 1) 2)I know what you mean about the red 1x10--that is what I have; my second Monza actually as I wanted 1 that was retrofitted, and my original came with the post phase inverter master volume from the factory. I swear there is a slight variation in the tone, with my 2nd being a bit more pleasing to my ear. Also, I wanted the "Monza" in larger script on the front! 3)One of our kind Forum Brothers sold his Monza for a Ghia 25th anni and then sold the Ghia 25th because he missed his Monza so much 4)The Monza is a Rock 'n' Roll BEAST
Sorry, I probably contributed nothing to your question.
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Post by DreamTheaterRules on Oct 24, 2015 23:03:39 GMT -7
oh, you contributed all right. To the enabling. Seriously, I appreciate your thoughts. The trade deal I was working fell through. Now I'm going to sell a few amps and take a road trip to try a few of the good doctors offerings so I can make sure which I want. One of my friends encouraged me to try some others, when he absolutely fell in love with a Z that is NOTHING like the tone he's chased for years. He's always played a strat, but gone for dark tones with most of his amps... bass all or most of the way up, treble almost all the way down, etc. Then he plays a Z which he described as "bright" and insists it's the best amp he's ever heard. I mean, this is a guy who uses dark fuzz pedals, or OD pedals with the tone turned down to 9:00, etc. etc. then falls for an amp that he says is brighter than most he'd played, but insists it's also the best amp he's ever played even though it's completely they opposite of the tone he's always dialed in. Anyway, I have always wanted to try a Maz 18. But now, on the list to try, I've got new version Mini, Monza, Maz 8, Ghia, Maz GT, and maybe one of the Marshall voiced ones I read about (Remedy? the plexi voiced one Guitar Player was raving about a while back). But, one thing is I've heard tons of guys say you have to turn Z amps UP to get the goods, and I normally can't play THAT loud. I play fairly loud at home, but not big gig loud, and I don't want an amp that has to be cranking way over 100dB to sound good.
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Post by supernaut on Oct 25, 2015 17:42:18 GMT -7
Well, if dbs are your concern (and they sure are mine) I'm thinking either master volume Monza OR Mini Z. I should be (re)acquiring a Mini Z on Monday, so I can tell by db"age" with it fully attenuated then. I can tell you for certain that you get a really sweet old school metal (ie, up to '80s time-frame) from the (MV) Monza even in the 80s db range. How do I know? I have a db meter
There's just SOMETHING special about that Monza MV. I don't know what. Even though it's not cooking the power amp tubes, it sure sounds flat-out amazing. I've ceased in my quest as to why it sounds so good, and just simply appreciate that it does sound so good. Doc did something truly amazing
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Post by supernaut on Oct 26, 2015 11:23:31 GMT -7
OK, just acquired another Mini Z. Fully attenuated, it is in the high 80s to low 90s db. Unattenuated, it's well over 100 db
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Post by DreamTheaterRules on Oct 26, 2015 21:35:24 GMT -7
I did a lot of reading over the weekend. Tons in this forum, at the Z web site, and searched for some descriptions at The Gear Page. But mostly here. I think at this time, I am definitely wanting to try either a Monza or a Mini with the Monza being the first choice. MV, red 1x10 combo!
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Post by supernaut on Oct 27, 2015 6:54:51 GMT -7
EXCELLENT choice and probably more versatile (in that it's louder or quieter than Mini and with substantially more wattage, you can probably get more clean headroom, which is a non issue for me as I always play hard/heavy). For me both are perfect. Mini is great for '70s/'80s hard & old school heavy rock. Monza much more "tamable" in terms of volume (ironic becasue before the master volume, that was a major complaint about the Monza--TOO LOUD!)
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Post by DreamTheaterRules on Oct 31, 2015 20:18:12 GMT -7
Helmi I went there today and met Matt. Great guy and he was very helpful. Thanks for letting me know about him. I didn't mention that although it's completely on the other side of Ohio, I go right through there every six weeks or so when I go to my daughter's house in Williamstown WVa.
They have a 10" combo in stock but it didn't have the master. I found out one thing for sure... I'd have to have one with the master. I know I can have it installed and I'm considering that. The amp sounded great! Definitely has its own thing, and its both cool, and something I don't have now. But one place I'd play it, I definitely couldn't turn it up enough to get in its sweet spot range.
Matt and I talked at length and he said I should try a Ghia also, and said he would even bring his in so I could try it if they didn't have one in stock.
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Post by supernaut on Oct 31, 2015 22:31:22 GMT -7
Helmi I went there today and met Matt. Great guy and he was very helpful. Thanks for letting me know about him. I didn't mention that although it's completely on the other side of Ohio, I go right through there every six weeks or so when I go to my daughter's house in Williamstown WVa. They have a 10" combo in stock but it didn't have the master. I found out one thing for sure... I'd have to have one with the master. I know I can have it installed and I'm considering that. The amp sounded great! Definitely has its own thing, and its both cool, and something I don't have now. But one place I'd play it, I definitely couldn't turn it up enough to get in its sweet spot range. Matt and I talked at length and he said I should try a Ghia also, and said he would even bring his in so I could try it if they didn't have one in stock. DreamTheaterRules: I have had both versions of the Monza (originally fitted w/ppimv and fitted after the fact). You won't go wrong with either version. I also have a 25th anni Ghia with factory ppimv and with the volume dimed, it will only get into '70s hard rock territory (in my opinion). Without the master volume, you're going to have to either use pedals or crank it loud to get the hard rock sound. Just my .02. Take it or leave it.
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Post by DreamTheaterRules on Nov 2, 2015 9:32:21 GMT -7
Thanks for that. I figured as much about the Ghia. (And if I've researched correctly, I think only the 25th has the PPIMV).
I really liked the Monza. Came "on" around 9:00, but got notable fatter at 10:00-11:00. And it was LOUD there. So the master would be mandatory for me. The gain and tone knobs were VERY cool in how they interacted with the volume. I played a Les Paul and a Strat. Wish I'd taking one of a PRS. :-)
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Post by supernaut on Nov 3, 2015 22:41:12 GMT -7
premiumplus(Dave) notes in another Monza thread (about using the brake lite with the Monza) that the Monza has a "massive pre-amp" stage. I don't understand the engineering of the Monza, I just know that I really like it. I'm usually 1 to prefer power tube distortion, but somehow that MV Monza does a terrific job of getting what to my ears sounds like power tube distortion. I'm not articulating very well, but think Monza users will get what I'm trying to say. And this is BELOW 90 db!!!
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Post by simpleton on Nov 3, 2015 23:54:14 GMT -7
The MONZA has a more immediate attack than the Ghia, which in comparison feel softer or maybe has sag. I think The Z amps I've played don't a have traditional sag and are more direct in nature or design but the MONZA has a forceful attack and at first it can be off putting or feel louder than it may be. I had a Ghia first and bought the MONZA second. The Ghia became my favorite amp ever ... And I kept saying that AND felt that way, but I found myself using the MONZA at home more and more because of the MV. Live I was using them in stereo with the MONZA as my lead tone.
Anyhow, I went thru a ....thing?....and I sold them both and wound up with a Therapy. Loved the Therapy, but saw an AMAZING deal on a non master MONZA and couldn't pass it up. As soon as I got it home I realized that the MONZA had become 'my' lead tone and I just hadn't noticed. Pedals can not replace an amp I guess. As well I've realized that the MONZA is always capturing my attention in some way and making me hear sound in ways I wouldn't have thought to look for. I use mine at home sans master volume, but I do have a brake lite in it and that can take the edge off if I need. The MV was the best I've used. Mine was on the back and I didn't like that as much as I would on the front...at gigs it's nice to see where you're knobs are...but I like the old face plates looks.
That's my story....MONZA is my favorite because it always makes me feel something...the Therapy and Ghia could get out of the way but the MONZA prefers center stage.
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