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Post by ss "Shane" on Oct 2, 2015 7:20:23 GMT -7
Hey guys, I'm new to ztalk and a new Z owner as well (Maz 18 reverb head/cab). I've really been researching the Therapy because I miss my 90's bassman LTD. I would probably buy another one but let's face it, Fender quality isn't what it was back then and I don't want to buy used. Anyway, my concern is about having no reverb at all with the Therapy but what I've learned is that with my Maz I can turn the verb off and still have a 3D kind of tone that I really like. This tone replaces the reverb in my mind I think, making it easy to play with it off.
Here are my questions; will the Therapy have that same 3D tone and what are the major tonal differences with the Therapy and the Maz. Its easier to ask you guys than to research it out because lots of times threads seem to veer off to speaker replacement, tube replacements or other mods. I'm currently using the 2X12 open back cab with the G1230 and the G12 Vintage. Since I'm satisfied with this cab I have no intentions of messing with speaker swaps. Will the therapy get me in the bassman neighborhood? For what it's worth I play old / new country mixed with classic rock and blues. I mainly use a tele with a Fralin stock mini humbucker and a Fralin blues special bridge. Great pickup combo btw but that's another topic. Thanks in advance!
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Post by fishman on Oct 2, 2015 7:39:28 GMT -7
Reverb? Don't need no stinking Reverb.....
Really won;t miss it. I have it on my SR and seldom use it or its down so low you have to really listen for it. I got used to no reverb on Z amps. Never had a Z with it, don;t miss it. ....oops not totally so, I had an EZG but did not use the verb. Z amps IMHO sound better with a bit of delay rather than reverb..but thats me, I am a delay addict...have at least two sometimes 3 on the board... Tons of options as far as adding a pedal etc...
I am no Therapy expert but I have had a few MAZ amps...Not the same thing though I was suprised I can get Vox chime out of a 6L6 amp but I can. A very versatile amp...very small tweaks on the amp or your guitar make huge differences in the sound. More responsive than the MAZ. Its not better just different. Like many of Z'z amps, seems the less knobs the more complex it can get. I am always amazed at how many sounds are available...my Z-28 with 3 knobs made me nuts as the tone options were endless...lol...thats a good thing. Therapy will get you into country and R%R , jazz whatever you need it to do. I am going to get some JJ 6V6 tubes and mess around with those in there. Tried some NOS 6V6 last nite and a giant difference overall.. Amp was alive...course the tubes were no doubt maxed out but I like 6v6 tubes and since the Therapy can take a bunch of tubes its fun time ...
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Post by ss "Shane" on Oct 2, 2015 8:09:55 GMT -7
Thanks Fishman! So I listened to Therapy vids and they were all over the place lol. A couple of vids sounded fantastic and others were not at all what I'm looking for. I did notice that the less desirable sounding videos were players with probably not a lot of experience...no offense to beginners. A concern I have is the clarity. I don't want something with lots of midrange built in. Matter of fact I use just a touch of midrange and always have. Not sure if I can change after all these years. Then I read a review somewhere that the bass control on the Therapy acted more like a midrange control. I certainly hope not. It's not good that I have no way of testing one of these in person so I kind of feel like I'm taking an expensive gamble haha. I guess in a nutshell I'm searching for less mids, organic transparent snappy lows and crystal highs. I don't care about Vox tones as I have that on hand with the Maz.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Oct 2, 2015 8:50:41 GMT -7
You control mids with significantly more effect by selecting the right speaker. What speaker are you planning to use?
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Oct 2, 2015 8:59:21 GMT -7
Okay, if I may add to this.....having started life with a Maz18, and now a devotee of the Therapy......... Firstly, the Therapy is a much higher Gain amp than a Maz - and I say Gain not OD or Distortion, although it will get pretty dirty if you set it that way and use hot pups, BUT it can also do glorious cleans and everything in between! The secret sauce lies in TWO controls - the V and the M. I totally disagree that the B acts like a Mid - the B is a Bass control. Now the Mid however, has a pretty huge tonal range and as I say, is where the secret sauce lies. You want heads down rock? Run it at 3 o'clock. You wants scooped mids? Run it at 9 o'clock. I run mine around noon as I want mids, but not too much (I play a lot of rock, indie, britpop, classic rock etc) In many ways it is totally different than a Maz, so if you have your Vox tones covered, then the Therapy sounds like a perfect companion. The Doc does some very special things with 6V6 and 6L6 tubes in my view - they sound huge, tight full bottom end, rich sparkly highs and very 3D. For a single channel, no nonsense, no frills amp, the Therapy is SO versatile! It also has a proper MV (unlike the Maz) which is a Post Phase Inverter MV, so it works all the way up and down the range. As for Reverb, well, when I need it I stick a pedal in front which works great, but that's only for very definite effects - it does not need it to "enhance" the basic tone as many Fenders do IMHO. The Therapy also responds fantastically well to being hit by a clean boost - it becomes a virtual 2 channel amp. Set it to your clean sweet spot; use your Guitar Volume a lot; hit it with a clean boost to drive the front end when you need it..........it just sucks it all up and flatters even a mediocre player like me! Very cool indeed......... If you think I may be a tab enthusiastic about this amp, you would be absolutely correct Welcome to posting on the forum BTW!! Great to have you join in
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Post by kc on Oct 2, 2015 9:33:40 GMT -7
Yes, you can live w/o reverb.
Everyone's experience is at least a little bit different with any Z amp. IMO, Z amps bring out the character of your guitar probably more than other amps do, so there's another variable explaining why everyone hears things differently.
Try whatever speakers ya got, you'll probably find one you prefer more than the others.
The only thing I can say with reasonable certainty is - you're gonna be happy with a Therapy, I say just get the dang thing.
kc
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Post by simpleton on Oct 2, 2015 10:40:15 GMT -7
Some amps seem to need reverb to sound at there best. Dr. Z amps don't need it...sorta sound better without it to me....BUT now I appreciate adding reverb to the Therapy in a different way since I font ever miss it I use it for more of an effect now instead of base tone. Z set me free from reverb needs.
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Post by ss "Shane" on Oct 2, 2015 17:21:47 GMT -7
All the replies are extremely helpful and much appreciated. Is the Therapy considered a silent amp in the bedroom? I don't mean volume wise, Im referring to hisses and hums. One thing about my Maz is that the cut knob likes to breath lol. It's not really a loud hiss or a hum but you know it's on when it's dialed up anywhere past 9:00. This is not a problem with other musicians around because it just gets washed out in the mix, however, it could be an issue when recording. I was curious as to if this was also an issue with the Therapy since it has no cut knob.
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Post by Eddie on Oct 2, 2015 18:54:49 GMT -7
No. You can not live without reverb.
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Post by walt on Oct 2, 2015 19:32:55 GMT -7
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Post by ss "Shane" on Oct 2, 2015 20:21:46 GMT -7
Wow! I think I'm sold...thanks walt! I really like how that demo was just guitar and amp too. I'm not sure if I've ever heard his tone sound so organic and pure. I know he was goofing around but I love knowing how that telecaster really sounds untouched by technology other than Dr. Z. That's what I'm looking for and the demo confirmed it for me. Glad I joined ztalk
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Post by fishman on Oct 2, 2015 21:09:04 GMT -7
For me I found changing V1 to a 5751 put the amp where I like it. YMMV of course but with the tube swapping, plus the ease of tone change, one tube..its made to play around with it is tweakable without spending a ton of money. Alot of sounds are there..it was too tweedy for me, so the 5751 chilled it out just a bit..also now the Z 4-10 works well..it was a bit harsh before...again, thats just my take..I am going to do the JJ6V6 swap as well..I like those tubes...its all good..Can;t go wrong with a Z..if you don;t dig it, swap it for something else..all its going to cost is shipping..The Z buy/sell/trade is great for amp trading.....sooner or later your deal will come along if you don;t like it....I have swapped a ton of Z'z.....welcome to the Board..don;t stress, I bought every one of my Z amps sound unheard..regret none....the Therapy is alot more than meets the eye...
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Post by JeffG on Oct 3, 2015 21:55:02 GMT -7
I think the reverb question depends on the kind of stuff you play. For most classic rock, blues, rock, country, etc. you can get away without using reverb if you have a great amp like the Therapy. Whenever you play live you have natural reverb anyway. In my experience, the only time I want reverb is when I play textured soundscape kind of stuff. In my current band I have to do that about half of the time and I've found that a reverb pedal gets the job done. So no, you don't need amp reverb.
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Oct 4, 2015 13:01:35 GMT -7
What about getting a Z-Verb??? That way you can add amazing reverb to any amp!!!
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Post by daveyk on Oct 4, 2015 14:22:09 GMT -7
I only use reverb (TC HOF) when I'm playing more ambient post-rock type stuff, otherwise I find z amps don't need it. From the words of Gearmanndude, "reverb SUCKS", unless the genre of music is enhanced or based around creating an ambient atmosphere or maybe surfy type stuff. When I used fender amps I kind of made a habit of using reverb, but now playing a non reverb z, I find reverb to be totally unnecessary unless the gene of music being played totally demands it. In that case a simple reverb pedal is plenty sufficient.
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Post by Paul (TRANE) on Oct 4, 2015 16:44:37 GMT -7
I have lived without reverb for years. Recently picked up an Analog Alien Rumbleseat. First reverb in a long time. It is nice, but I still like my guitar on the dry side.
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Post by walt on Oct 4, 2015 18:15:20 GMT -7
I bought a used Carl Martin Headroom,a spring reverb pedal with 2 channels,and it sounds great in the front of the amp.Positive-2 channels,so you can switch between subtle and drippy easily,negative-it's 8 inches wide,which is a lot of space on a gig board.
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Post by Eric from Cheekago on Oct 4, 2015 19:22:30 GMT -7
I haven't used any form of reverb since acquiring my Mazerati. Don't miss it one bit. Fwiw.
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Post by guitarjoe on Oct 4, 2015 21:00:50 GMT -7
I have to have a smidge of reverb going on, but then again, I don't currently own a Z amp....
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Oct 5, 2015 6:12:30 GMT -7
I have to have a smidge of reverb going on, but then again, I don't currently own a Z amp.... .....and there's why you NEED a Z amp.......
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Post by Hohn on Oct 5, 2015 7:07:16 GMT -7
Pedals have gotten so good that there's no need to compromise the amp's tonal purity by having it built into the amp.
IMO, quality verb pedal in non-Verb amp smokes a reverb amp.
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Post by detuned on Oct 5, 2015 11:59:52 GMT -7
Why would you want to cover up all that great tone with reverb? :-)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2015 9:50:08 GMT -7
Once I got my hands on a great delay pedal, I've never even touched reverb...
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Post by ss "Shane" on Oct 15, 2015 18:58:35 GMT -7
I just ordered a new Therapy from Humbucker Music and now I can't wait to plug in. My only unanswered question from here is how quit the Therapy is when turned down low. Hums...hisses...that kind of stuff. Anyway, I realize good reviews alone can't promise me amp happiness, but being that I have no real way of actually playing one, reviews are all I have. So with that said, thanks to everybody who gave me an honest opinion....it really helps!
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Oct 16, 2015 4:19:55 GMT -7
My Therapy is one of the quietest amps I own. Even gained up it's nice and well behaved...but like any amp it's going to have a bit of noise when the preamp gain is maxed out. I think you've made a great choice here, and if you ordered it from Humbucker you will have it in 2 shipping days. You're in Cincy and they are just over the border from Tennessee. Oh, and I think it's going to sound terrific with your open back 2x12. The Therapy has great overdrive tone but it has a luscious clean sound too. I'm happy for you, man!
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Post by ss "Shane" on Oct 16, 2015 6:43:02 GMT -7
Well I'm in Texas so it takes about three shipping days. Speaking of the Humbucker crew, those guys do the VERY best packing job In the world. Honestly it's why I like to use them along with the fact that they don't laugh at my stupid questions about Z products when I call lol. I'm sure they think I'm an idiot by now, but a guy like me who grew up on nothing but Fender has questions that seem juvenile. Thanks for answering me about the noise on the Therapy and I expect normal noise with the gain up really high. I think I'm probably gonna delete my other guitar talk forum accounts and just use this one. You guys all seem to be polite and full of knowledge. Once again, thanks Z community!!
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Post by walt on Oct 16, 2015 17:03:35 GMT -7
The Therapy is really quiet-even with the volume up to about 11 o'clock-the only buzz I get is pedals.Master on 3 o'clock,volume at about 8:30 you'll be checking that the amp is on.
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Post by premiumplus (Dave) on Oct 16, 2015 17:41:36 GMT -7
You're right about this forum. It's got the best guys and best knowledge out there. No attitude, just a good group of musicians that really know their gear. I love this place.
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Post by ss "Shane" on Oct 21, 2015 16:55:46 GMT -7
I will answer my own question. Yes, I can live with no reverb. My therapy came in today and my head is still ringing because I have been at it for hours. Not trying to dial it in, not trying to like it because it's my money spent, not trying to talk myself into liking Dr. Z...just because it's the sound I was hoping for but with an added flavor of spice that I didn't expect but love. It's just a superb amp and I don't care what the brand is. I'm not gonna preach to the choir or make an attempt at writing a review because my third grade level penmanship will only be boring at best. Here is what I can say though, I missed my Fender amps when they were making quality amps and was in search for a Fender "feel" I guess. Well I have it now plus what ever mojo Z sprinkles on his stuff before it leaves the shop. Yes it's a KEEPER!
I have to be honest in my narrative and say that I was expecting and wanting more low end and rumble from the 6L6s but I really believe the voice of this amp will sit in the band mix perfectly without treading on a bass guitar's territory. I'm using a 2X12 Z open back with a G12h30 and a V30. Might consider loosing the v30 for another g12. That's not a priority though because I'm ecstatic with what I have now.
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Post by simpleton on Oct 21, 2015 18:11:16 GMT -7
Turn the bass all the way up and bring the mids and treble down around noon, maybe lower on treble...the cab should rumble some. I'm loving mine too. Preach on.
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