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Post by bloozeman on Aug 25, 2015 19:14:13 GMT -7
I keep reading about changing the stock ef86 out for a dario mini watt nos ef86 for the m12. As it makes a big improvement in tone. I've scoured the internet trying to find a dario mini watt ef86 and none can be found. How is the Mullard ef86? And changing out a stock for nos what improvements in tone would one expect? Warmer tone? More robust? Softer? I've swapped out the 5y3 rectifier for a 5ar4 as some suggest. Wondering what the nos ef86 would do with a 5y3 or a 5ar4 rectifier. Any input or opinions?
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Post by gilmourish on Aug 27, 2015 9:53:51 GMT -7
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Post by savage8190 on Aug 27, 2015 10:30:47 GMT -7
Man I wish I could remember what tubes were in my FIRST M12. I've played others and they didn't stack up...everyone I've played was used and had different tubes.
What EF86 come stock in it?
EDIT:
After looking around I think I've jarred some memories...my first one had the Winged C (I think). I had another with an EH and it was awful, also played another with a JJ and didnt like it either.
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Post by jesslm02 on Sept 8, 2015 10:44:24 GMT -7
Mine came stock with a Winged C. It became micro shortly after arrival so I swapped it out with a nos. I don't remember what I used but I think it was a Dario Miniwatt. I didn't try one in the M12, but I used the newer production Tung-Sol EF806 and NOS Tesla EF806 with good results in my RX Jr.
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Post by jimiata on Sept 8, 2015 12:44:22 GMT -7
Jess, your M12 came to me with a Dario Miniwatt. It has long since gone to that dead tube place in the sky. I'm currently using a Valvo i picked up off Ebay. It sounds VERY nice.
Jim
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Post by jesslm02 on Sept 8, 2015 13:22:00 GMT -7
Jess, your M12 came to me with a Dario Miniwatt. It has long since gone to that dead tube place in the sky. I'm currently using a Valvo i picked up off Ebay. It sounds VERY nice. Jim Right on Jim! I thought so. I guess all tubes go to heaven, huh? Good info on the Valvo. I think I actually have a few of those in my ef86 stash.
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Post by bloozeman on Sept 8, 2015 16:41:03 GMT -7
I read a lot of the dario but not valvo. How do they compare?
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Sept 8, 2015 18:40:14 GMT -7
What EF86 come stock in it? My M12 came from the factory with a Winged C as well. It was very good; but naturally I swapped some things around and the NOS Tesla EF806S that's currently in it is working well, too.
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Post by bloozeman on Sept 8, 2015 19:31:15 GMT -7
Will changing the ef86 to nos make the amp warmer or rounder? Does it change the feel of tone of the amp at all? Just wondering because my impression of the m12 is it's a little hard or stiff sounding. Real tight. In my opinion could use a little warmer and rounder sound/tone. Does the ef86 affect this?
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Post by savage8190 on Sept 8, 2015 20:11:34 GMT -7
Will changing the ef86 to nos make the amp warmer or rounder? Does it change the feel of tone of the amp at all? Just wondering because my impression of the m12 is it's a little hard or stiff sounding. Real tight. In my opinion could use a little warmer and rounder sound/tone. Does the ef86 affect this? That's the speaker I bet.
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Sept 9, 2015 7:50:04 GMT -7
Will changing the ef86 to nos make the amp warmer or rounder? Does it change the feel of tone of the amp at all? Just wondering because my impression of the m12 is it's a little hard or stiff sounding. Real tight. In my opinion could use a little warmer and rounder sound/tone. Does the ef86 affect this? If you have a new production (i.e., not NOS) EF86 tube in there, then I'd suggest changing it to an NOS tube before you make any critical evaluations of the amp. It's a pretty widely-held opinion that no new-production "EF86" (or "EF806") tubes operate at the required specs that the NOS ones do. So, that could be a culprit of the amp "not sounding great." Additionally, when you use words like "warmer"/"rounder," "hard or stiff," or "tight," those are all adjectives that a speaker can 100% directly affect. Most users (myself included) seem to be happy with either small-magnet "M" or Greenback type or AlNiCo G12 Blue type speakers paired with their M12, but of course it's all personal choice. What're you using? Lastly--and this is impossible for any of us to diagnose--it could simply be that the M12 is not to your liking. There's nothing wrong in that; there's been Z-amps that I thought I'd like but didn't. So overall, maybe your issue is the EF86... or maybe it's the speaker... or maybe it's both... or neither?
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Post by bloozeman on Sept 9, 2015 8:23:41 GMT -7
Will changing the ef86 to nos make the amp warmer or rounder? Does it change the feel of tone of the amp at all? Just wondering because my impression of the m12 is it's a little hard or stiff sounding. Real tight. In my opinion could use a little warmer and rounder sound/tone. Does the ef86 affect this? If you have a new production (i.e., not NOS) EF86 tube in there, then I'd suggest changing it to an NOS tube before you make any critical evaluations of the amp. It's a pretty widely-held opinion that no new-production "EF86" (or "EF806") tubes operate at the required specs that the NOS ones do. So, that could be a culprit of the amp "not sounding great." Additionally, when you use words like "warmer"/"rounder," "hard or stiff," or "tight," those are all adjectives that a speaker can 100% directly affect. Most users (myself included) seem to be happy with either small-magnet "M" or Greenback type or AlNiCo G12 Blue type speakers paired with their M12, but of course it's all personal choice. What're you using? Lastly--and this is impossible for any of us to diagnose--it could simply be that the M12 is not to your liking. There's nothing wrong in that; there's been Z-amps that I thought I'd like but didn't. So overall, maybe your issue is the EF86... or maybe it's the speaker... or maybe it's both... or neither? The speaker Ive been using with the M12 and my other Z's (Maz Jr, Jaz 20/40) are weber silver bells. Maybe Ill try a nos ef86 and see what difference that makes. I also just ordered a WGS G12C/s for my Fender amp and maybe Ill try that out with the M12 as well. I was never a fan of greenback speakers or any celestiopns for that matter as to me they sound hard and harsh with too much bite
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Sept 9, 2015 9:32:42 GMT -7
I hear you regarding the Celestions' harsh bite; but that Silver Bell ought to be killer with the M12. Great speaker.
Yeah, maybe try an NOS EF86... and while you're back there, make sure your rectifier tube is a 5Y3 (and not a GZ34). A GZ34 would function fine with the M12, but it'll be a lot tighter and solid on the bottom, more like a StangRay. I'm sticking with the softer-feeling 5Y3 in mine.
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Post by jesslm02 on Sept 9, 2015 10:02:50 GMT -7
Depending on the age and usage, might be time for new power tubes as well.
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Post by bloozeman on Sept 9, 2015 10:11:54 GMT -7
Depending on the age and usage, might be time for new power tubes as well. the amp is brand new with maybe 8 hours of play time on it. its only seen 1 4 hour gig
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Post by bloozeman on Sept 9, 2015 10:14:22 GMT -7
I hear you regarding the Celestions' harsh bite; but that Silver Bell ought to be killer with the M12. Great speaker. Yeah, maybe try an NOS EF86... and while you're back there, make sure your rectifier tube is a 5Y3 (and not a GZ34). A GZ34 would function fine with the M12, but it'll be a lot tighter and solid on the bottom, more like a StangRay. I'm sticking with the softer-feeling 5Y3 in mine. I did have the 5y3 initially installed, then put a GZ34 in for a bit but then swapped back to the stock 5Y3. which brand NOS ef86 would you recommend?
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Sept 9, 2015 10:56:34 GMT -7
which brand NOS ef86 would you recommend? I'm using a Tesla EF806S, but I've had the Dario Miniwatt in there and it was fine. I'd trust pretty much anything from KCANOSTubes; but watch out because he's closed for (presumably) a vacation soon--if you're ordering, you might want to do it sooner than later.
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Post by bloozeman on Sept 9, 2015 11:30:45 GMT -7
which brand NOS ef86 would you recommend? I'm using a Tesla EF806S, but I've had the Dario Miniwatt in there and it was fine. I'd trust pretty much anything from KCANOSTubes; but watch out because he's closed for (presumably) a vacation soon--if you're ordering, you might want to do it sooner than later. Order placed for a Tesla EF806S. Thanks for the tip and recommendation
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Post by jimiata on Sept 9, 2015 15:05:07 GMT -7
I read a lot of the dario but not valvo. How do they compare? To my old ears they sound similar, very smooth and musical?? I've used them with both a C Gold 1x10 and 1x12 and I love the clarity and definition they provide. My M12 currently resides in a DR Z 1x10 combo with a 1x10 C Gold, Valvo EF86, JJ 5AR4 rectifier, JJ EL84s, and a Sovtek 12AX7.
I play 100% clean and just love the dynamics this amp provides. I'll probably try the Steve Miller mod just to hear the difference.
Jim
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Post by gitaryzt1985 on Sept 10, 2015 5:59:58 GMT -7
What effects to the tone do modern production EF86 tubes have on the sound? I know a lot of people say they don't like production tubes in their M12, but what do they do to the sound?
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Post by bloozeman on Sept 14, 2015 9:16:58 GMT -7
Installed a NOS Tesla Ef806S today and got to play for only a half an hour, but is it correct of me to say that swapping the stock tube for the NOS softened up and warmed up the amp a bit? it seems like that to me.
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Post by thorquil on Sept 21, 2015 20:12:08 GMT -7
Can someone describe the difference between an Ef86 and a EF806s for me? This a new tube type for me and I would love a frame of reference.
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Post by mustachio on Sept 21, 2015 20:41:37 GMT -7
I'd also like to know. My M12 rattles and I can't stand it. I bought a Telefunken and it still rattles when I hammer down or turn up the volume past 12 o'clock. Bugs the crap out of me. Doc, please, if you're listening, how can this be solved?
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Post by smolder on Sept 21, 2015 21:16:41 GMT -7
Amperex or a Philips Miniwatt.
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Post by Paul (TRANE) on Sept 22, 2015 17:36:09 GMT -7
I love the GEC EF86 they are hard to find though.
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Post by jesslm02 on Sept 22, 2015 20:54:42 GMT -7
I actually think I have a stash of GEC EF86.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2016 10:21:01 GMT -7
Installed a NOS Tesla Ef806S today and got to play for only a half an hour, but is it correct of me to say that swapping the stock tube for the NOS softened up and warmed up the amp a bit? it seems like that to me. Just curious as to what your results were with the NOS Tesla EF806S? I just put one in my M12 combo, and the microphonics don't appear to be any better then the NOS Russian tube I had in there before. Bummer, as I was hoping for a better result from a $60 tube! I just ordered some damper rings from Eurotubes. Hopefully they do the trick - if not, an EF86 combo may not be the amp for me :-(
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Post by zm12 on Nov 9, 2016 16:45:13 GMT -7
I've been using Amperex Bugle Boy EF86's. Picked up 3 of them a while back. made a huge improvement. Not that I wasn't happy with the M12 to begin with but there was some noise/fizz with the stock one that was in there. All three of the Bugle Boy's were dead silent and smooth. Guess its the luck of the draw when buying NOS glass. The EF86 Bugle Boy's generally go for a lot cheaper than their 12ax7 counterparts.
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Post by bloozeman on Nov 9, 2016 17:43:35 GMT -7
Installed a NOS Tesla Ef806S today and got to play for only a half an hour, but is it correct of me to say that swapping the stock tube for the NOS softened up and warmed up the amp a bit? it seems like that to me. Just curious as to what your results were with the NOS Tesla EF806S? I just put one in my M12 combo, and the microphonics don't appear to be any better then the NOS Russian tube I had in there before. Bummer, as I was hoping for a better result from a $60 tube! I just ordered some damper rings from Eurotubes. Hopefully they do the trick - if not, an EF86 combo may not be the amp for me :-( Honestly I can't remember as I sold the M12 quite a while ago. I do remember though as liking a winged C
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Post by tumeniamps (Tom) on Mar 26, 2023 4:00:46 GMT -7
I have a good stash of NOS and current production EF86 tubes. Several of my Z's use them. I honestly don't hear any real difference between new and NOS that I can't adjust with the controls. EHX work great for me. I'm happy either way. Changing rectifier tubes makes much more difference in an M12 in my opinion. I love everything about my M12 head.
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