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Post by savage8190 on Aug 24, 2015 10:11:34 GMT -7
I'm hoping someone who has played both can chime in and tell me what the differences are/ how they compare?
I ask because while I love the M12, it's not really available in my area, where as I see the Z28 pop up quite often.
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Aug 24, 2015 12:02:17 GMT -7
LOVE both those amps... my answer,
the M12 is a CLEAN machine,
and a great Clean with a bit of hair when cranked (especially with tone knobs past 12 o'clock on the dial), not quite as loud as the Z 28 (unless you consider some of Docs stangray mods / 5ar4 rectifier then you will get more clean headroom and volume closer to the Z 28)... BUILT to take pedals. Great for recording, at home practice (sound VERY good at lower volumes and all the way up with out and all this with out the need of any attenuation.) I have used it at several gigs with full band and usually the volumes around noon with a bit more headroom to spare.
The Z 28 is a sweet machine...
Great cleans and good headroom... gets hair and more drive (and like the M 12 with the tone knobs past 12 o clock) and can be a bit marshally drive or a bit fendery clean depending on the setting. More of a tweed / early non reverb fender thing to me, but surprisingly versatile... sounds good at low volumes with a wide sweet spot also (not quite as low volume wise as the M12 though, M12 can get a bit fuller at little lower volume to me) but louder than the M12 and I would probably use attenuation / Air Break with the Z 28 live (however I could see not using the air break depending on the settings / volume level, except for live in a small venue if you wanted to really crank it.)
If I did not use the Maz 18 reverb...
and needed to have an amp to plug straight into with no pedals (or just a couple of pedals) but pretty much just guitar and amp...
it would be the Z 28 (1x10 combo with a red fang... and if I needed a louder amp for that it would probably be the Z wreck 1x12 combo)
If I used / relied on more pedals and volume was maybe more of an issue... which it is for me,
I would use an M12... which I do have, and use in conjunction with my Maz Jr Studio combo... they compliment each other very well.
on a side note,
a few years back (15 years or so now) I had the chance to play and then buy a vintage blond 1960 Fender Deluxe (pre blackface and no reverb)... I still kick my self for not getting that amp... At the time I thought I had to have reverb and thought it was not loud enough and could not have been more wrong on both counts.
The Z 28 reminds me A LOT of that very amp I played only better (reliable, more headroom and usable sweet spot and much better bass / not flubby.)
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Aug 24, 2015 12:14:53 GMT -7
They're not as close as you might think, given that they share the same control layout. Their front-end/preamp section is similar, but their power sections seem vastly different (EL-84's with a "soft" rectifier tube vs. 6V6's with a more stout rectifier).
M12: Quieter (relatively speaking, attenuator not needed), softer, rounder; clean with a little VOX-y chime/jangle when it's turned up.
Z-28: LOUD (relatively speaking, attenuator encouraged), wider bandwith and FAT; clean & clear but gets Marshally-crunchy when you crank the volume & tone knobs.
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Aug 24, 2015 12:16:29 GMT -7
^^ Jason, you beat me to my response while I was typing it! Oh well, hope this info helps Mr. savage8190.
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Post by savage8190 on Aug 24, 2015 12:27:13 GMT -7
Perfect, pretty much exactly what I thought...maybe I'll steer clear of the Z28; sounds like it might not be quite what Im looking for.
Thanks guys!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2015 13:14:13 GMT -7
If I'm not too late--both are great amps. The Z-28 is much louder, and can be a great amp for the straight-in player, though it takes pedals well, too. It's got a particular voice, which is pretty mid-focused, and does this awesome thing where, if you crank the tone knobs past noon, they start to add gain in their frequencies. A lot of Z-28 players love the 3/3/3 setting, which gives you a great, wide-open power tube distortion that has to be felt to be fully appreciated. Hugely fun amp, but LOUD for home or smaller venues. Did not like it in the 1x10 format with the Red Fang--too much mid bark for me.
The M12 is a much more transparent amp and has a good bit more headroom than you'd expect from a 12-watter. Can also get loud on the "high" setting, but easily tamed to fit practice space, small club, or studio. Truly great as a clean platform if you like your dirt pedals, as I do. Try it with a 2x12 cab and you'll be amazed at how rich it sounds. This is my go-to amp now for home use--looking forward to trying it out on a gig or two in the near-ish future.
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Post by savage8190 on Aug 24, 2015 16:44:13 GMT -7
Ya from the clips Ive watched the Z28 looks/sounds like it would be a better all a rounder...nicer gain there for sure. It also seems fatter sounding though...more "American" type, where as I prefer a more jangly/vox type of tone.
I probably dont need more volume either, so there's that...
Was just a thought; I dont think I'll see another M12 pop up for a long while.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 7:11:57 GMT -7
If you want jangle, how about a Maz Jr?
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Post by savage8190 on Aug 25, 2015 9:26:53 GMT -7
If you want jangle, how about a Maz Jr? I had one briefly...didnt get along with it. It was by far my least favorite Z of the 5 I've had. I'll go back to the M12 probably...I'll just have to wait for a good local deal.
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Post by savage8190 on Sept 6, 2015 17:54:16 GMT -7
You know, I'm still thinking about the Z28 a lot. I've been reading up on a lot of bands I really like and it seems like all of them use Fenders. I've never really gotten on with them because the low wattage offerings are always too flubby or too boxy, and the higher wattage ones I like are just too damn loud. I wonder if maybe I should give the 28 a whirl...it sounds like it addresses those issues?
Ones I've especially liked were the Bassman and Deville...but those are both redonkulously loud. I had a blues junior and it was boxy, and I had a 65 DRRI and it was flubby AND boxy AND terrible with pedals. Ive tried a Vibrolux and it was just kind of mediocre. How would the 28 compare to the Fenders I've tried?
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Post by nmz on Sept 6, 2015 18:30:33 GMT -7
You know, I'm still thinking about the Z28 a lot. I've been reading up on a lot of bands I really like and it seems like all of them use Fenders. I've never really gotten on with them because the low wattage offerings are always too flubby or too boxy, and the higher wattage ones I like are just too damn loud. I wonder if maybe I should give the 28 a whirl...it sounds like it addresses those issues? Ones I've especially liked were the Bassman and Deville...but those are both redonkulously loud. I had a blues junior and it was boxy, and I had a 65 DRRI and it was flubby AND boxy AND terrible with pedals. Ive tried a Vibrolux and it was just kind of mediocre. How would the 28 compare to the Fenders I've tried? If you are leaning that way I say pick up a 28, it replaced my DRRI at the time. No flub or boxy to it just awesome tone.
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Post by savage8190 on Sept 6, 2015 20:14:12 GMT -7
Does the Z28 take pedals as well as the other amps with this EF86 front end? I've had an M12, and a Route, and they are rediculously good with pedals. I also had a Stang Ray and I thought it was quite terrible with pedals...at least the ones I like.
Specifically I wonder if it will stay tight with fuzz and distortion pedals. I like to do some heavy rock once in a while, and I love fuzz, so it's an important consideration.
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Post by nmz on Sept 6, 2015 21:20:32 GMT -7
I have not owned the M12 or the 66 but it took pedals better than any amp I have owned.
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Post by smolder on Sept 6, 2015 22:40:15 GMT -7
I really loved my R66 and the Z28 even more. I really wanted it to work in my band, but it's just too big. Now running the M12 with a 5Y3 and the amperex old stock equivalent of the EL844 and love it. I can get both cleans and dirt with those treble and bass controls... And probably the widest range of bass to treble of any small wattage amp I've owned.
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grrsound
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Located in Trenton, Oh
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Post by grrsound on Sept 11, 2015 10:34:07 GMT -7
I think the 28 takes pedals really well. It is my main amp and has been for several years now. I have a Wampler 57 and a Wampler Paisley drive for dirt and they work great with the amp IMO. The 57 is set so that it sounds like another gain stage for the amp so you still get the amp sound just more dirt. I use compression, delay, and tremolo and they play nice together as well. Not sure if that was what you were looking for but it works for me. The amp is loud so I usually keep the Air Brake on 2 to 3 clicks depending on the venue. I have only gotten to one click on an outdoor gig. I keep the volume on the amp at around 1 or 2 o'clock with the bass above noon and the treble below noon. And just for reference, I have owned a Carmen Ghia, Maz Jr NR (in 1x12 and 2x12 configs), and I have owned a DRRI. The 28 has that Fender clean of a DRRI but does not sound boxy at all. In fact it is much more clearer and open to me. Sorry for the novel but I hope this helps.
dl
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Post by savage8190 on Sept 13, 2015 17:26:51 GMT -7
Well...maybe I will have to give the 28 a whirl. I should see if I can rent the one at Long & McQuade, I have such a hard time deciding on an amp in a store. I can tell when they are bad, but its hard to tell if I love it.
In the mean time I have picked up a Traynor. It's pretty good, but it's no Z.
How is the overdrive on the 28? Does it stay sort of thick and grinding or does it lose definition and get fuzzy at some point?
Also, how does it compare to a Route 66? I've read it's similar but lower wattage, brighter top end, less girth. If that's the case it may just be perfect. I've always said my perfect amp would be a brighter/lower wattage Route. The M12 was great like that, but it didn't have that grinding overdrive that I liked so much in the Route 66.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2015 6:01:51 GMT -7
Well...maybe I will have to give the 28 a whirl. I should see if I can rent the one at Long & McQuade, I have such a hard time deciding on an amp in a store. I can tell when they are bad, but its hard to tell if I love it. In the mean time I have picked up a Traynor. It's pretty good, but it's no Z. How is the overdrive on the 28? Does it stay sort of thick and grinding or does it lose definition and get fuzzy at some point? Also, how does it compare to a Route 66? I've read it's similar but lower wattage, brighter top end, less girth. If that's the case it may just be perfect. I've always said my perfect amp would be a brighter/lower wattage Route. The M12 was great like that, but it didn't have that grinding overdrive that I liked so much in the Route 66. [ The z28 never gets fizzy or fuzzy.... It's a full clear marshall-esque "grind". I can't think of an amp distortion I love more. I've played and owned 800's, musicmans, fenders, sunn's and NOTHING gets me excited like the 28 cranked. The brake lite works SO well with this amp that you can get an incredible tone at any volume. The EF86 front end lets you hit it with reverb and delay while the amp is broken up and it just loves if. I could talk all day about this amp. It changed my life haha
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Post by savage8190 on Sept 15, 2015 19:27:14 GMT -7
Well...maybe I will have to give the 28 a whirl. I should see if I can rent the one at Long & McQuade, I have such a hard time deciding on an amp in a store. I can tell when they are bad, but its hard to tell if I love it. In the mean time I have picked up a Traynor. It's pretty good, but it's no Z. How is the overdrive on the 28? Does it stay sort of thick and grinding or does it lose definition and get fuzzy at some point? Also, how does it compare to a Route 66? I've read it's similar but lower wattage, brighter top end, less girth. If that's the case it may just be perfect. I've always said my perfect amp would be a brighter/lower wattage Route. The M12 was great like that, but it didn't have that grinding overdrive that I liked so much in the Route 66. [ The z28 never gets fizzy or fuzzy.... It's a full clear marshall-esque "grind". I can't think of an amp distortion I love more. I've played and owned 800's, musicmans, fenders, sunn's and NOTHING gets me excited like the 28 cranked. The brake lite works SO well with this amp that you can get an incredible tone at any volume. The EF86 front end lets you hit it with reverb and delay while the amp is broken up and it just loves if. I could talk all day about this amp. It changed my life haha But how do you REALLY feel about it . That's awesome to hear...hopefully someone can chime in on how it compares to the 66. The 28 is sounding more and more like it might be what I want. Thinking back on it now, as much as I liked the M12, I didn't much care for it until I had the right speaker, and the right pedals, and the right tubes, and the right settings....so on and so on. It got the tone I wanted, but I didn't really like it on its own. I'm thinking the 28 might have all the plusses of the m12, but it might also have the straight in MOJO the M12 didn't have.
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Sept 16, 2015 3:21:32 GMT -7
The Z28 will be a demanding mistress though......you'd better pay attention. You get sloppy and lazy around her, and she'll punish you........but if you focus, if you give her your heart when you play her, there are VERY few amps in this world will fatter you more!
The Z28 is a VERY special amp indeed!
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Post by Stephen on Sept 16, 2015 18:54:41 GMT -7
If you can play a venue where you can crank the Z-28, it sings!
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