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Post by lawliet on Aug 21, 2015 10:00:07 GMT -7
Hey yall. Thinking about making my first z purchase: the m12!!!! I want to use it mostly as a pedal platform. Could an m12 owner let me know if you need an attenuator when playing at home? I know z watts are louder than most. How does it compare volume wise to say a vox ac15c1? Also, center you get clean tones with a les paul style guitar?
Thanks!
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Post by savage8190 on Aug 21, 2015 10:16:47 GMT -7
When I had mine (and I wish I still did) I found the volume was very usable at all levels...even mild "bedroom" levels. FWIW I owned the Brake Lite (from my previous Z amp) when I had the M12; I wound up selling it; never found the need for it. Also, using a closed back cab with it tames the volume a ton.
Compared to a Vox AC15C1 you will get similar headroom, but I find it more usable at lower volume than the Vox and infinitely more pedal friendly (Ive owned the Vox too).
I only use Les Pauls and the M12 has a beautiful clean tone...particularly when paired with a Celestion Gold.
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Post by lawliet on Aug 21, 2015 10:36:22 GMT -7
When I had mine (and I wish I still did) I found the volume was very usable at all levels...even mild "bedroom" levels. FWIW I owned the Brake Lite (from my previous Z amp) when I had the M12; I wound up selling it; never found the need for it. Also, using a closed back cab with it tames the volume a ton. Compared to a Vox AC15C1 you will get similar headroom, but I find it more usable at lower volume than the Vox and infinitely more pedal friendly (Ive owned the Vox too). I only use Les Pauls and the M12 has a beautiful clean tone...particularly when paired with a Celestion Gold. That's everything I was hoping to hear! Do you find the m12 sounds similar to the vox or does it have its own chimey thing going with that ef86?
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Post by savage8190 on Aug 21, 2015 10:51:03 GMT -7
I used to own an older AC30 with an EF86 pre-amp and 2 Celestion Blues. I found it fairly similar to that, except much more usable volume-wise (that Vox was killer loud) and WAAAAAYYY better with pedals. The M12, in my opinion, NEEDS to be paired with a Celestion Gold though, especially if you want it to be more chimey like a Vox. Before I used the Gold I tried it with Greenbacks, V30's, and the G12H30...I found it was a bit lifeless with the ceramic speakers (much like a Vox is).
I would describe the M12 (my favorite amp) as having the great pedal platform and clarity of the Route 66 (my 3rd favorite amp) combined with the warmth and chime of a Vox (my 2nd favorite amp). You need that Alnico speaker to reveal the chime though.
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Post by lawliet on Aug 21, 2015 13:06:16 GMT -7
Thanks for all your help savage. Does it have more low end than the Vox and less 'ice pick'? There was something about the top end of the vox I could never bond and I'm hoping the m12 has a more 'rounded'high end. And hopefully a unique voicing with a bit o chime that doesn't make someone think they're listening to a Vox.
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Post by savage8190 on Aug 21, 2015 15:00:15 GMT -7
It definitely doesn't have that super high end "ice pick" sound. I know exactly what you're talking about; I loved my Vox but it gave me some serious ear fatigue after a short while. The M12 doesn't have a ton of low end either...you'd need more wattage for that, but it does have more pronounced lower-mids that make it hit a bit harder. I dont know if you have ever heard a Route 66? The Route is thick in the mids, very smooth with lots of punch. I find the M12 sounds very similar, but less pronounced in the mids with more chimey top end...not quite to the extent of a Vox, its just really nice. Its very well balanced; dont forget that it takes every pedal you can throw at it like a champ; you can really sculpt your exact tone if you take the time to tweak it a bit with a compressor and EQ. I used a Diamond compressor; it has comp AND an EQ knob and I could get a lot out of that pedal.
Again, it sounds like its up your alley, but I think you'll need the Gold to be happy with it. The Gold adds something special to the top end, and it gives it a nice defined bottom end. With the right pedals I could get great tone for ANY genre from pop to metal.
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Post by lawliet on Aug 21, 2015 15:23:53 GMT -7
Thanks once again savage this is extremely helpful. When you say metal, what kind of metal? I play a little bit but not often and the band plays in standard tuning so it's not heavy chugga chugga djenty stuff but still modern sounding. Can the gold speaker pull it off with the right pedal? I'm not expecting it to cop a true high gain amp or anything but being able to get that metal sound every once in a while would pretty much seal the deal for me.
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Post by lawliet on Aug 21, 2015 15:39:26 GMT -7
As to the route 66, I feel like that's too much power for me bedroom
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Aug 21, 2015 19:25:28 GMT -7
The Route 66 will definitely be way too much "bedroom" power. It's a stage amp. Yes, an attenuator will bring the volume down, but you'll never get full use out of the amp in your situation unless it's heavily attenuated all the time.
On the other hand, I have the M12 & love it, especially for its low-volume performance. The taper of the volume knob is so nicely done, that it's easy to dial-in "low volume," "quiet," and "super quiet" without the sound level jumping too quickly. The Lo/Hi input switch is nice, too; I almost always use Hi, but Lo will get you down extremely low compared to any other tube amp.
I rarely use my Brake Lite with the M12, but keep in mind the M12 will go way louder than "bedroom" fairly easily; and it sounds nice up there too, as it distorts a little. If you want to have those tones, too, at manageable levels, then you'll need the Brake Lite.
Compared to the AC15C1? Can probably go as loud, and can probably also go quieter. The M12 is very much in the same tonal ballpark, but much smoother and less jangly/ratty/loose.
Can it do clean with a Les Paul? Yes--its EF86 input tube is capable of taking some pretty strong input levels without caving in. (The similarly-structured Z-28, Route 66, etc. amps all exhibit this.) Remember to use the volume knobs on the guitar, too--just keep them down between 5-8-ish and as long as the amp's not cranked it'll be clean.
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Post by savage8190 on Aug 21, 2015 21:16:07 GMT -7
Thanks once again savage this is extremely helpful. When you say metal, what kind of metal? I play a little bit but not often and the band plays in standard tuning so it's not heavy chugga chugga djenty stuff but still modern sounding. Can the gold speaker pull it off with the right pedal? I'm not expecting it to cop a true high gain amp or anything but being able to get that metal sound every once in a while would pretty much seal the deal for me. I don't play a ton of metal either, when I do its usually Metallica, Chevelle, or Priest, or some random "weedling and chugging" as I like to call it...that's about it lol. With a nice dirt pedal you will get some great metal tones. The reason I recommend the Gold over a Blue is because the Blue gets pretty flabby in the bottom end where as the Gold stays super tight...great for rock and metal and you still get the bell like cleans.
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Post by lawliet on Aug 22, 2015 7:27:15 GMT -7
The Route 66 will definitely be way too much "bedroom" power. It's a stage amp. Yes, an attenuator will bring the volume down, but you'll never get full use out of the amp in your situation unless it's heavily attenuated all the time. On the other hand, I have the M12 & love it, especially for its low-volume performance. The taper of the volume knob is so nicely done, that it's easy to dial-in "low volume," "quiet," and "super quiet" without the sound level jumping too quickly. The Lo/Hi input switch is nice, too; I almost always use Hi, but Lo will get you down extremely low compared to any other tube amp. I rarely use my Brake Lite with the M12, but keep in mind the M12 will go way louder than "bedroom" fairly easily; and it sounds nice up there too, as it distorts a little. If you want to have those tones, too, at manageable levels, then you'll need the Brake Lite. Compared to the AC15C1? Can probably go as loud, and can probably also go quieter. The M12 is very much in the same tonal ballpark, but much smoother and less jangly/ratty/loose. Can it do clean with a Les Paul? Yes--its EF86 input tube is capable of taking some pretty strong input levels without caving in. (The similarly-structured Z-28, Route 66, etc. amps all exhibit this.) Remember to use the volume knobs on the guitar, too--just keep them down between 5-8-ish and as long as the amp's not cranked it'll be clean. Thanks, I don't want to use an attenuator which is why I'm gunning after the m12.
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Post by lawliet on Aug 22, 2015 7:27:42 GMT -7
Thanks once again savage this is extremely helpful. When you say metal, what kind of metal? I play a little bit but not often and the band plays in standard tuning so it's not heavy chugga chugga djenty stuff but still modern sounding. Can the gold speaker pull it off with the right pedal? I'm not expecting it to cop a true high gain amp or anything but being able to get that metal sound every once in a while would pretty much seal the deal for me. I don't play a ton of metal either, when I do its usually Metallica, Chevelle, or Priest, or some random "weedling and chugging" as I like to call it...that's about it lol. With a nice dirt pedal you will get some great metal tones. The reason I recommend the Gold over a Blue is because the Blue gets pretty flabby in the bottom end where as the Gold stays super tight...great for rock and metal and you still get the bell like cleans. Thanks! I didn't know any differences between the two speakers
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2015 13:14:27 GMT -7
The Celestion 10" Gold is also an option with the M12. I have a 2x10 w/Golds, and a 1x12 w/Gold. Both cabs are well broken in. To my ears, the 10's handle gain a little better than the 12" gold. This is at bedroom levels, and it may just be 2 speakers will give you a fuller sound than one. But the highs with the 10's seem just right. Sometimes the highs with the 12" Gold need some treble knob reduction, (with the M12).
Just my opinion, of course.
The M12 is a fine choice for a Z amp. Whether it's your first, or your fifth (as in my case). cheers
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Post by lawliet on Aug 22, 2015 13:37:04 GMT -7
The Celestion 10" Gold is also an option with the M12. I have a 2x10 w/Golds, and a 1x12 w/Gold. Both cabs are well broken in. To my ears, the 10's handle gain a little better than the 12" gold. This is at bedroom levels, and it may just be 2 speakers will give you a fuller sound than one. But the highs with the 10's seem just right. Sometimes the highs with the 12" Gold need some treble knob reduction, (with the M12). Just my opinion, of course. The M12 is a fine choice for a Z amp. Whether it's your first, or your fifth (as in my case). cheers Thanks Bodega! I'd really like to try a 2x10 someday.
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