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Post by mustachio on Jul 31, 2015 18:36:34 GMT -7
Here's the deal: This is my third M12, I've sold a total of 4 Maz 18 Jr. NR heads, combos; 1 Ghia head; and two 1X12" Z Cabs. A lot of money. A lot of trolling. A lot of YouTube. Etc.
Current Amps: M12 Combo with Chinese Celestion Greenback; 2011 Fender '57 Deluxe Reissue (before the Clapton crappy amps) with NOS Tubes from Brent Jesse in Illinois--look them up--and a Weber 12A125-A, Light Dope, speaker; and a vintage 1961 Supro Supreme (no crappy tremolo) with 6973 power tubes--absolute favorite, btw.
Guitars: '65 SG Jr.; 2014 R8 (ordered Throbaks 101+ today); Nash T-52; and a 2014 ES-335 1963 (with the MHS humbuckers--which are the BOMB).
Okay: My gigging amp will be between the Deluxe and the M12. First things first, (1) don't touch the stock Greenback! Put it on a stand or a dummy cab...then listen...you'll understand. It's crisp, clear, cleans up well and matches the 12 watts perfectly (trust me, I'm a cork-sniffer--had Celestion Blues, Golds, Webers, Scumbacks, etc., and the, quote un-quote Chinese Greenback is perfect). (2) If you have EL-84s from EH, get JJ's in there quick. Don't mess about. Preamp tubes, whatever. Power tubes. Change them. Spend the money. Life is too short and hearing goes quick, so don't waste it on bad tone. (3) Mess around with the Lo setting, while cranking the volume... great stuff. (4) If you hear tube rattle, and think it's your EF86, get it off the ground and I suggest the "On Stage Stand" that handles combos (head/cab users disregard)...no more rattles. Doc also puts a dab of silicone goop in the tube cover, so it's probably the bass response from your floor to amp. Get it off the ground for two reasons: you'll hear your highs better and save your Greenback, and NO rattle...well, unless you have Electro Harmonics EL-84s.
Last issue: Tell your friends to "Get your F*%$@ing shine BOX" because you'll be asking your Nona to borrow their cutting knife for the "hoof" in your car radiator. "Ma, it's a sin."
Don't mess with your stock M12, it's a sin, I'll come up there an tell you, maybe you haven't heard? You've been gone a long time. No shines, Billy.
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Post by bloozeman on Aug 1, 2015 5:10:47 GMT -7
Tone is subjective. Id take a weber speaker over a celestion any day. I prefer them much more. M12 is a great amp, I love mine
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Post by jimiata on Aug 1, 2015 5:50:53 GMT -7
Mea coupla…I'm a sinner! 5AR4, Celestion Gold 12 inch, and a Mather pine small cab. I loved the original 10 cab but I love this set up more. As bloozeman says,"Tone is subjective".I'm thinking on doing the bias resister swap just to hear the difference; it can easily be changed back if I don't like it. Just sayin'.
Jim
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Post by bloozeman on Aug 1, 2015 6:11:58 GMT -7
I put the 5AR4 in my M12 as well.
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Post by mustachio on Aug 1, 2015 16:08:09 GMT -7
Yeah, I was just being playful because I am so sold on the Celestion. I couldn't believe it. I am curious on the 5AR4. Big difference or just louder?
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Post by mustachio on Aug 1, 2015 16:19:58 GMT -7
Oh, and I was watching Goodfellas while I wrote that.
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Post by simpleton on Aug 1, 2015 16:39:27 GMT -7
Oh, and I was watching Goodfellas while I wrote that. ..it's an empowering movie isn't it
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Post by bnads on Aug 4, 2015 6:18:30 GMT -7
Much prefer the Celestion Gold in mine. I have a RFT ef86, TAD el84STR's, a NOS Mullard 12ax7 and a NOS Valvo GZ34 in it. Sinner? Guilty as charged.
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Post by jimiata on Aug 4, 2015 10:06:11 GMT -7
I've found with the 5AR4 the amp is more immediate, less sag more punch. I play 100% clean, no OD…just an occasional Delay or Tremolo pedal.It works for me.
Jim
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Post by mustachio on Aug 4, 2015 15:06:26 GMT -7
Hmmmm. I was wondering if I were to get another EF86 what one should I get to guarantee no rattling. Money's not an issue. Does the Gold change the tone too much. I wouldn't mind more volume that the efficiency provides, but my only experience was/is with the Celestion Blue, which is its own thing (in a good way). I want a more neutral greenback but with more efficiency. Am I talking about a V30?
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Post by jimiata on Aug 4, 2015 16:05:37 GMT -7
Good luck getting a non-rattling EF86; my M12 is a combo, rattle comes with the territory. Check out the Eminence Private Jack; it's supposed to be a Greenback type, I have one in my 1974X clone, works great. The Gold (well broken in) is a very rich sounding speaker with the chime of a Blue but with a tighter bottom end. I never get cranked up enough to make my Blue flub out so for me it's a non issue. I've not tried a V30 in this amp.
Jim
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Post by bloozeman on Aug 4, 2015 16:07:28 GMT -7
Hmmmm. I was wondering if I were to get another EF86 what one should I get to guarantee no rattling. Money's not an issue. Does the Gold change the tone too much. I wouldn't mind more volume that the efficiency provides, but my only experience was/is with the Celestion Blue, which is its own thing (in a good way). I want a more neutral greenback but with more efficiency. Am I talking about a V30? Dario Miniwatt but are hard to find. As for speaker, I prefer a weber silver bell in my amps. But thats what my ears like. As I stated above, tone is subjective. I dont like celestion speakers, to me they are harsh, and to crisp and stiff sounding. A V30 is a very high mid range spike tone
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Post by bnads on Aug 5, 2015 6:57:15 GMT -7
Hmmmm. I was wondering if I were to get another EF86 what one should I get to guarantee no rattling. Money's not an issue. Does the Gold change the tone too much. I wouldn't mind more volume that the efficiency provides, but my only experience was/is with the Celestion Blue, which is its own thing (in a good way). I want a more neutral greenback but with more efficiency. Am I talking about a V30? Mine came with a V30 in it - it sounded horrible to my ear.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 8:51:33 GMT -7
I've liked mine a lot with a Gold, or alternatively with Doc's new Eminence !2". Also just fine with a G12H30, which is a remarkably good workhorse speaker for all sorts of amps.
EF86's tend to go harmonic a LOT. NOS seem to hold up better, though they're increasingly rare and expensive. Of current production EF86s, I've had better luck with the Svetlana "Winged C" than anything else. Sonically I prefer the Miniwatt or Bugle Boy, but finding actual NOS (not "vintage") examples is tough these days, as I said.
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Post by bnads on Aug 6, 2015 7:10:25 GMT -7
Jon at TTS recommended the RFT to me, and it has been good so far. Unfortunately the new TAD el84s have some rattle. If I keep my M12, I'm definitely getting a head cab built - too much vibration.
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Post by Maddog on Aug 6, 2015 10:41:58 GMT -7
Last issue: Tell your friends to "Get your F*%$@ing shine BOX" because you'll be asking your Nona to borrow their cutting knife for the "hoof" in your car radiator. "Ma, it's a sin."
I was kinda keeping up until I hit this paragraph....... translation, please.....
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Post by deluxetwelve on Aug 6, 2015 17:04:37 GMT -7
It's a reference to the movie "Goodfellas". I think he's saying that you don't mess with the formula, a bit like you wouldn't mess with Joe Pesci's character - or there'll be trouble!
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Post by mshartz on Aug 6, 2015 20:50:15 GMT -7
Yeah, I was just being playful because I am so sold on the Celestion. I couldn't believe it. I am curious on the 5AR4. Big difference or just louder? Big difference with the 5AR4, it takes away alot of the that sag you get with the 5Y3 and tightens everything up and punchier too.
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Post by gitaryzt1985 on Aug 7, 2015 6:47:27 GMT -7
I'm on my second M12. My first was a combo with the greenback. The tube rattle was too much for me to get used to. I tried different tubes, but after only a month I had to replace the EF86 twice...no clue why. I still have the rattle with the head version, but it isn't nearly as bad as with the combo.
I have a Creamback in my 1x12 cab and I think it is perfect with the M12. I love the low end I'm getting and the chime is awesome as well. I've already lost the EF86 after two months with it though....does anyone else have issues with M12 eating tubes?
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Post by jesslm02 on Aug 7, 2015 7:16:43 GMT -7
I used NOS Tesla EF806 (not ef86) and never had any problems. And it got hauled around a lot. I think the 806 is supposed to be a more ruggedized version of the 86.
For new production I used a JJ gold pin ef86 and a tungsol ef86. Had pretty good results with both and I can't recall that either went microphonic on me but I was rolling them fairly quick. I think I used the tungsol version the longest.
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Post by mustachio on Aug 7, 2015 11:17:51 GMT -7
Last issue: Tell your friends to "Get your F*%$@ing shine BOX" because you'll be asking your Nona to borrow their cutting knife for the "hoof" in your car radiator. "Ma, it's a sin."
I was kinda keeping up until I hit this paragraph....... translation, please..... Probably the funniest scene in the movie. Just being a goof. No more shines, Billy.
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Post by mustachio on Aug 7, 2015 11:19:48 GMT -7
I used NOS Tesla EF806 (not ef86) and never had any problems. And it got hauled around a lot. I think the 806 is supposed to be a more ruggedized version of the 86. For new production I used a JJ gold pin ef86 and a tungsol ef86. Had pretty good results with both and I can't recall that either went microphonic on me but I was rolling them fairly quick. I think I used the tungsol version the longest. Good to know. I just ordered a Telefunken EF86 circa 1950's from Brent Jessee Recording (great source for NOS tubes). Military specs so it should be solid. I'll know in a day or two. Thanks for the reply!
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Post by smolder on Aug 7, 2015 21:32:06 GMT -7
The EF806 is very durable, especially if you have a combo, but not as musical sounding as the miniwatts (Phillips or otherwise)... They are worth tracking down for an extended upper range and the clarity.
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Post by BradPaisleyFan (Pat) on Aug 27, 2015 11:35:48 GMT -7
Yeah, I was just being playful because I am so sold on the Celestion. I couldn't believe it. I am curious on the 5AR4. Big difference or just louder? Big difference with the 5AR4, it takes away alot of the that sag you get with the 5Y3 and tightens everything up and punchier too. Do you find by swapping out the red tube with an 5AR4, you loose that Z Wreck feel to the amp? I have both a z wreck and m12, and had the stand Ray and I love what the m12 does...in its low setting, sounds like a ray and high setting you get a great z wreck feel to the amp...just wondering if you would lose that?
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Post by mshartz on Aug 27, 2015 12:33:47 GMT -7
Big difference with the 5AR4, it takes away alot of the that sag you get with the 5Y3 and tightens everything up and punchier too. Do you find by swapping out the red tube with an 5AR4, you loose that Z Wreck feel to the amp? I have both a z wreck and m12, and had the stand Ray and I love what the m12 does...in its low setting, sounds like a ray and high setting you get a great z wreck feel to the amp...just wondering if you would lose that? Not sure, I've never heard a Z Wreck or Stangray in person but I love how the amp sounds now.
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