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Post by bloozeman on Dec 20, 2014 18:57:42 GMT -7
Does the M12 have big fat thick Blackfaced cleans like the EZG? I had an EZG and got rid of it because it was just too much amp for me and way too loud. So now I have a Maz Jr, and a Therapy and seriously considering an M12 for cleans. My EZG took pedals great and was big and bold but as i said it was just too much. Could the M12 deliver to me what an EZG did but at a much more lower level?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 7:15:22 GMT -7
No. You need power and big tubes for big cleans. For a 12-watt EL84 amp, the M12 delivers remarkably good cleans with the "sensitivity" switch in the "high" position, but as someone who's felt the power and the glory of the EZG, you're probably not going to get the same juice from the M12. Ymmv, etc.
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Dec 21, 2014 7:32:08 GMT -7
Agreed - the M12 is not a mini-EZG.
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Post by djcakadave on Dec 21, 2014 7:39:04 GMT -7
Stangray
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Post by KeithA on Dec 21, 2014 7:45:35 GMT -7
I think bloozeman is looking for Blackface-style cleans
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Post by bloozeman on Dec 21, 2014 8:13:45 GMT -7
I think bloozeman is looking for Blackface-style cleans yes, looking for blackface cleans. I really hated to get rid of my EZG but it just got no use as it was way too much amp for me needs. Im lookgin for something bigger than a deluxe reverb and smaller than a twin. any ideas? do I need to give the EZG another try?
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Post by doctorice on Dec 21, 2014 8:47:45 GMT -7
yes, looking for blackface cleans. I really hated to get rid of my EZG but it just got no use as it was way too much amp for me needs. Im lookgin for something bigger than a deluxe reverb and smaller than a twin. any ideas? do I need to give the EZG another try? Perhaps hold off and wait to try the updated JAZ that Dr Z has mentioned? Original JAZ can be dialed in to very nice BF-type cleans, imo. Very solid low end and the 20/40 switch might be a benefit.
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Post by Stan on Dec 21, 2014 8:51:38 GMT -7
What are Dr Z's other Blackface offerings in his line up.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 10:15:37 GMT -7
Not Blackface as such, but the KT-45 and the Route 66 are known for big cleans. The Route might be a good option, though it has a reputation for being head-crushingly loud (I actually don't find the EZG to be that loud, as Zs go--and the pre/post volume controls work really well).
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Post by limenine on Dec 21, 2014 13:41:00 GMT -7
Would a Z28 kept clean be close?
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Post by smolder on Dec 21, 2014 16:01:59 GMT -7
Would a Z28 kept clean be close? More brown face (6 series schematic) than bf. Doesn't quite have that sparkle on the high end.
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Dec 21, 2014 16:16:58 GMT -7
Mark (Basement Enthusiast) brought his M12 and his Deluxe Reverb Reissue to the mini-Zfest last summer to A/B them for us. Amazing how close they sounded (of course the M12 was quite a bit fuller more harmonic but Mark did get that DR sound out of the M12. But as I posted earlier - it is no mini-EZG.
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Dec 21, 2014 20:14:49 GMT -7
Yup, without much effort at all, you can get the M12 to sound DANG NEAR THE SAME (not 100%.. but maybe a 97% match) as a '65 DRRI. HOWEVER, bloozeman, if you want "a little more than a Deluxe Reverb" then that's the drawback here, because the M12 will top out in volume before the Deluxe. Separate testing of mine, however, showed that the Deluxe Reverb and the Z-28 are a dead-match for volume. (No surprise, right? Both dual-6V6, 22 watts, etc.)
You were asking for "big, bold" sound, and no I don't think that's the M12's forte. The "blackface" sounds that I'm conjuring out of the M12 are more of those "spanky clean" sounds that the Deluxe does so well in its clean range. But whereas the Deluxe goes from quiet-ish to roaring loud between about 2–4 on its volume control (difficult to fine-tune), the M12 goes from super-quiet to not-so-blistering-loud between about "off" (7:00) and halfway up (noon) on the volume control. Much easier to make subtle volume changes and all at very manageable levels. I just really like the taper of the M12's volume control for home use... my poor Brake Lite doesn't like getting ignored, though.
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Post by smolder on Dec 21, 2014 21:36:29 GMT -7
Yup, without much effort at all, you can get the M12 to sound DANG NEAR THE SAME (not 100%.. but maybe a 97% match) as a '65 DRRI. HOWEVER, bloozeman, if you want "a little more than a Deluxe Reverb" then that's the drawback here, because the M12 will top out in volume before the Deluxe. Separate testing of mine, however, showed that the Deluxe Reverb and the Z-28 are a dead-match for volume. (No surprise, right? Both dual-6V6, 22 watts, etc.) You were asking for "big, bold" sound, and no I don't think that's the M12's forte. The "blackface" sounds that I'm conjuring out of the M12 are more of those "spanky clean" sounds that the Deluxe does so well in its clean range. But whereas the Deluxe goes from quiet -ish to roaring loud between about 2–4 on its volume control (difficult to fine-tune), the M12 goes from super-quiet to not-so-blistering-loud between about "off" (7:00) and halfway up (noon) on the volume control. Much easier to make subtle volume changes and all at very manageable levels. I just really like the taper of the M12's volume control for home use... my poor Brake Lite doesn't like getting ignored, though. Can you share B/T settings and what speakers you're using to get this? I have an M12 and a '78 deluxe reverb... Mine sound nothing alike. I'm using a JBL D120 in the DR, and either red fang 10's or a c-blue with the M12 though.
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Dec 22, 2014 8:28:10 GMT -7
Can you share B/T settings and what speakers you're using to get this? I have an M12 and a '78 deluxe reverb... Mine sound nothing alike. I'm using a JBL D120 in the DR, and either red fang 10's or a c-blue with the M12 though. On the M12, it's usually Bass @ 1:30 and Treble @ 10:30. On my Deluxe Reverb (if I remember correctly) it's Bass @ 4 (the number 4, not o'clock) and Treble @ 6 (also the number, not o'clock). I think I might've had to tweak a little bit from those settings to make 'em sound so close, however that's pretty much the zone were I found them to sound similar. I currently have my M12 in a 1×12 paired up with a Scumback M75-PVC, however when evaluating vs. the Deluxe Reverb I was running both amps through a Radial Headbone into the Weber 12F150 (50W, light dope) that's in the Deluxe's combo cabinet. If there's a way you could run your M12 through that JBL you'd probably get a lot closer; I had my M12 paired up with a G12 Blue for a little while and found it to be much more "Celestion/British" sounding (not surprisingly) than it does for me now. EDIT: I should also mention that long ago I snipped the "bright cap" on my Deluxe Reverb. (That amp's wired as if the "bright switch" is always-on on the vibrato channel. I've now effectively turned it permanently off.) Makes a huge difference in the tone, and in how well the amp takes pedals. I recommend it to everyone, with no exceptions.
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Post by smolder on Dec 22, 2014 9:19:01 GMT -7
Thanks Mark, I'll play with those settings. Single coils or humbuckers?
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Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Dec 22, 2014 11:16:18 GMT -7
Almost always single-coils for me.. and not terribly strong ones, at that.
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Post by Frankie Starr on Jan 6, 2015 7:23:54 GMT -7
I don't see any similarities between the EZG and M12. The M12 is closer to ZWreck to my ears, but a little cleaner. But the NEW Jaz amp is exactly what your describing. Great Deluxe tones, and when switched to the 40 w mode, a nice thick bass....like a smaller EZG.
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Jan 6, 2015 7:30:56 GMT -7
yes, looking for blackface cleans. I really hated to get rid of my EZG but it just got no use as it was way too much amp for me needs. Im lookgin for something bigger than a deluxe reverb and smaller than a twin. any ideas? do I need to give the EZG another try? Perhaps hold off and wait to try the updated JAZ that Dr Z has mentioned? Original JAZ can be dialed in to very nice BF-type cleans, imo. Very solid low end and the 20/40 switch might be a benefit. Definitely hold off for new JAZ - Deluxe for days! And 20/40 watt capabilities. Reverb and tremolo!
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Post by bloozeman on Jan 6, 2015 10:34:02 GMT -7
I don't see any similarities between the EZG and M12. The M12 is closer to ZWreck to my ears, but a little cleaner. But the NEW Jaz amp is exactly what your describing. Great Deluxe tones, and when switched to the 40 w mode, a nice thick bass....like a smaller EZG. looks like I may be holding out for the new Jaz. any idea when its supposed to be coming out? how long of a wait? and will it come in a head or just a combo?
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Post by tonechaser on Jan 19, 2015 23:29:48 GMT -7
Never played through one, but the maz 38 description mentioned 60's blackface tones.
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Post by smolder on Jan 26, 2015 22:30:03 GMT -7
Can you share B/T settings and what speakers you're using to get this? I have an M12 and a '78 deluxe reverb... Mine sound nothing alike. I'm using a JBL D120 in the DR, and either red fang 10's or a c-blue with the M12 though. On the M12, it's usually Bass @ 1:30 and Treble @ 10:30. On my Deluxe Reverb (if I remember correctly) it's Bass @ 4 (the number 4, not o'clock) and Treble @ 6 (also the number, not o'clock). I think I might've had to tweak a little bit from those settings to make 'em sound so close, however that's pretty much the zone were I found them to sound similar. I currently have my M12 in a 1×12 paired up with a Scumback M75-PVC, however when evaluating vs. the Deluxe Reverb I was running both amps through a Radial Headbone into the Weber 12F150 (50W, light dope) that's in the Deluxe's combo cabinet. If there's a way you could run your M12 through that JBL you'd probably get a lot closer; I had my M12 paired up with a G12 Blue for a little while and found it to be much more "Celestion/British" sounding (not surprisingly) than it does for me now. EDIT: I should also mention that long ago I snipped the "bright cap" on my Deluxe Reverb. (That amp's wired as if the "bright switch" is always-on on the vibrato channel. I've now effectively turned it permanently off.) Makes a huge difference in the tone, and in how well the amp takes pedals. I recommend it to everyone, with no exceptions. I found the fender in my M12. I picked up a lopoline cab... The avatar vintage is just too much cab with a lot of low end. A simpler cab with less wood allows the JBL K120 do it's thing much better. More like a fender combo. The M12 feels like a 6L6 fender that a 6V6... More clear. I might give an Altec a shot as well. Those aluminum dust caps on the JBL's are a tad shrill at lower volumes. The Altec not so much. Hearing good things about the new tone tubby purple haze as well.
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