|
Post by Papa Juan (lanier816) on Nov 21, 2014 12:43:27 GMT -7
I've got a Maz 18NR w/ 1x12 Z cab that apparently is too much for our churches sound guy to handle (behind the stage and surrounded by auralex I might add), as a compromise I've got the band director on board with trying a Mesa Boogie Cab Clone, I've attached the video link below so you can check it out. It should be in in about a week, I'll keep y'all posted once I get it, I doubt it will be identical to my cab however it may turn out to be a nice middle ground between the stage and board. If it works how we want we'll buy one for each player and not have to hear the worst phase ever "Bro, you're just too loud, can you back it off like...50%?"
|
|
|
Post by deltone on Nov 22, 2014 14:45:49 GMT -7
This interests me for many reasons relative to using it in a live situation. I use heads and cabs, and we use IEMs. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy toying with different speakers as much as anyone, but the gained efficiency from handling less equipment, quick setup, and freeing up room on the stage makes me want to try one and see if I could make it work. I've now read Mesa's website, various reviews, and watched a couple of videos. One thing I'd like to know that has not been made clear to me is if the DI level knob allows you to use it as an attenuator, too. By that, I mean can you crank your amp to the sweet spot and then use the DI level knob to control the volume to the mixing board and out to the FOH speakers (no different than using a Brakelite with your amp)? If you can, then I'm pretty much sold on at least buying one to try it out. The way it is now, I can hear my speaker cab in combination with my in-ears, so listening to only my in-ears would take some getting used to.
|
|
|
Post by doctorice on Nov 22, 2014 15:25:44 GMT -7
It appears the DI output level is fully variable within its range, so it seems you could crank the amp and send a signal to FOH that was at the "right" level to match up. But it doesn't appear to be an attenuator per se: The dummy load is either engaged and there's no output to the thru jack or the load is out of circuit and the full signal from the amp goes to the cab. Of course, you could then insert a Brake Lite between the cab clone and your cab to effect attenuation. I think I've got that right, but I don't own this and I don't work for MB! A call or email to MB or one of its dealers, like Humbucker, would be definitive. Have you looked into the Bad Cat Unleash? It doesn't have cab emulation, but it is an attenuator (and re-amplifier) with a direct out. I've got one. It doesn't seem to affect tone much. I haven't tried using the direct out for recording, though. One plus: It has an effects loop.
|
|
|
Post by ifailedshapes on Nov 22, 2014 16:31:08 GMT -7
I have owned both the Cab Clone and Unleash. The Cab Clone is not an attenuator, although it can act as a load for your amp to facilitate silent recording. The Unleash has a post-power-section effects loop, and the solid state amplifier did not change the tone at all in my experience. For the OP's situation, I think a Cab Clone is ideal. I'm on hiatus from playing at my church while I finish my degree, but I'd love for them to try my Cab Clone.
Even if you're gigging clubs, instead of worrying about mic placement and stage volume, a Cab Clone would let you send a consistent signal to the board, and you could still have your amps on stage to make it feel "live".
|
|
|
Post by Papa Juan (lanier816) on Nov 23, 2014 6:19:24 GMT -7
This interests me for many reasons relative to using it in a live situation. I use heads and cabs, and we use IEMs. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy toying with different speakers as much as anyone, but the gained efficiency from handling less equipment, quick setup, and freeing up room on the stage makes me want to try one and see if I could make it work. I've now read Mesa's website, various reviews, and watched a couple of videos. One thing I'd like to know that has not been made clear to me is if the DI level knob allows you to use it as an attenuator, too. By that, I mean can you crank your amp to the sweet spot and then use the DI level knob to control the volume to the mixing board and out to the FOH speakers (no different than using a Brakelite with your amp)? If you can, then I'm pretty much sold on at least buying one to try it out. The way it is now, I can hear my speaker cab in combination with my in-ears, so listening to only my in-ears would take some getting used to. That was my thought as well, I love my tone but if I could get a similar tone with only my head how awesome would that be? Also, this will allow me to have my amp right next to me for adjustments instead of just dealing with it if I'm feeling a little more or less of something that morning.
|
|
|
Post by Papa Juan (lanier816) on Nov 23, 2014 6:31:18 GMT -7
It appears the DI output level is fully variable within its range, so it seems you could crank the amp and send a signal to FOH that was at the "right" level to match up. But it doesn't appear to be an attenuator per se: The dummy load is either engaged and there's no output to the thru jack or the load is out of circuit and the full signal from the amp goes to the cab. Of course, you could then insert a Brake Lite between the cab clone and your cab to effect attenuation. I think I've got that right, but I don't own this and I don't work for MB! A call or email to MB or one of its dealers, like Humbucker, would be definitive. Have you looked into the Bad Cat Unleash? It doesn't have cab emulation, but it is an attenuator (and re-amplifier) with a direct out. I've got one. It doesn't seem to affect tone much. I haven't tried using the direct out for recording, though. One plus: It has an effects loop. I have actaully, it a really awesome tool, however, the goal the church looking to achieve is an as close to zero stage noise as possible. The unleash would probably work but I'm of the mind that I prefer to stay ahead of the curve and since I know what they're looking for is rather be the one to investigate the options and suggest the best ones rather than have someone else find something and say "here, use this".
|
|
|
Post by doctorice on Nov 23, 2014 6:35:54 GMT -7
^^^
Cab clone seems viable then. If you pull the trigger, let us know how it works for you.
|
|
|
Post by Papa Juan (lanier816) on Nov 23, 2014 20:46:25 GMT -7
We have one on order, I've volunteered to be the guinni pig, pretty excited actually. It's always fun to try new toys, potentially crank a Z without complaints...who could resist?!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 5:37:55 GMT -7
I'd find a new sound guy...that's just my humble opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Papa Juan (lanier816) on Nov 24, 2014 6:49:06 GMT -7
I'd find a new sound guy...that's just my humble opinion. Story of my life dude, we used to have one that was great, he was going to school for audio engineering but that ship sailed a few years back. The guy we have is a nice enough guy but when you're dealing with the volunteer market you get what you get, you know? It's no biggie, my wife rocks and doesn't play volume nazi when I'm at home, so the Z still gets a workout ?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 6:52:28 GMT -7
The cab clone is cool though...
|
|
|
Post by aufamily on Nov 25, 2014 11:21:00 GMT -7
I almost bought a cab clone. I've looked at the unleash, the cab clone, and all the others. Just picked up a used Rivera Rockcrusher Recording (delivered yesterday)...I'll get some time with it over Thanksgiving. I hope it solves the problem described above. It is an attenuator (from none all the way to silent/load box) as well as a speaker emulated DI via 11 band analog filter section. Maybe I can start using my Zs at church!!! We'll see!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 12:56:37 GMT -7
Isn't he the one that is supposed to turn you down if you're too loud?
|
|
|
Post by Papa Juan (lanier816) on Nov 26, 2014 8:32:37 GMT -7
Isn't he the one that is supposed to turn you down if you're too loud? Yes but the issue is he walks around with a decible meter and once it hits 89 he starts backing off, so a lot of Sunday's you have more stage volume than house which sounds aweful. It's a been a frustrating mess for a couple years now, which is why I started searching for other options like the cab clone.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 17:54:31 GMT -7
Isn't he the one that is supposed to turn you down if you're too loud? Yes but the issue is he walks around with a decible meter and once it hits 89 he starts backing off, so a lot of Sunday's you have more stage volume than house which sounds aweful. It's a been a frustrating mess for a couple years now, which is why I started searching for other options like the cab clone. I think I have conversations with my friends that peak above that. Oh the joys of playing amplified music at church.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2014 1:27:29 GMT -7
I say quit going to church and start playing some ROCK AND ROLL!!
|
|
|
Post by ifailedshapes on Dec 18, 2014 22:31:38 GMT -7
So, I didn't use a Dr Z, but I used my Cab Clone tonight for the first time live. It worked wonderfully. The board got a quality sound, I didn't have to worry about mic placement, and I wasn't asked to turn down. I'd recommend this little gizmo to anyone!
|
|
|
Post by Papa Juan (lanier816) on Dec 19, 2014 7:10:01 GMT -7
That's good to know, there's been a delay in ordering ours so I haven't had a chance to mess with one. For the time being I get to use my full set up, no complaints there, haha! On another note we've started micing our amps with AKG C1007s, we normally use these as overheads for the drums and in an emergency grabbed one when my 57 crapped out, gold, absolute gold, my guitar has never sounded that good. We use those now for both guitars, haha!
|
|
cmrharvey
Full Member
Greater Atlanta
Posts: 103
|
Post by cmrharvey on Dec 20, 2014 8:44:36 GMT -7
We are using Iso Cabs to put the speaker cab into, ( normally have two electrics) which is basically a carpeted 3/4" plywood box with a hinged door and gate latch. Then we mike them in there. it allows us to turn it up, although i still use two clicks on the brakelite. Seems to tame the stage volume as long as drums are in the fishbowl. However, I like the idea of not having to lug the cab, so if this clone works out, would like to hear how it sounds and how tweakable it is. Good Info
|
|
|
Post by GuitarZ on Dec 20, 2014 10:46:35 GMT -7
I went with the Randall Isocab. I really like it for recording at home and think it would work great in a church situation. We do headphone rehearsals and the Isocab was a little bit of a drag to drag to rehearsal and back home. I tried a Palmer DI which I got to sound decent for recording after a lot of EQ'ing, but I couldn't get the same sound for rehearsal and sold it. The guys are nice enough to let me run my Ghia full out with the Airbrake on full attenuation at rehearsal which sounds pretty good mic'd in my headphones. Good luck with the Cab Clone. We've got one good review above.
|
|
|
Post by Papa Juan (lanier816) on Dec 23, 2014 8:31:10 GMT -7
I went with the Randall Isocab. I really like it for recording at home and think it would work great in a church situation. We do headphone rehearsals and the Isocab was a little bit of a drag to drag to rehearsal and back home. I tried a Palmer DI which I got to sound decent for recording after a lot of EQ'ing, but I couldn't get the same sound for rehearsal and sold it. The guys are nice enough to let me run my Ghia full out with the Airbrake on full attenuation at rehearsal which sounds pretty good mic'd in my headphones. Good luck with the Cab Clone. We've got one good review above. I had thought about isocabs, we looked at the Randall Ioscab and the Rivera Siltent Sister but in terms of portability and cost the cab clone is cheaper, which for a church, cost over tone will be the deciding factor.
|
|
|
Post by ifailedshapes on Jan 25, 2015 15:59:09 GMT -7
I just wanted to bump this discussion. I just used my Lone Star 2x12" with a Cab Clone. Yeah, I know it's not a Z, but whatevs. The Cab Clone sounds best when a speaker is plugged in to its output, but it doesn't have to be cranked to sound good. We had my amp at a 45 degree angle on stage, and while it was clearly audible in the room, the mains easily overpowered it. Our sound tech and I compared the Cab Clone to an Avatar A25 (25 watt Alnico) which was mic'd with an SM57. The Cab Clone honestly sounded better, and for a combo guy like me, it means I don't have to bring my amp AND a cab to hide backstage. In short, if you're playing live, I'd totally recommend it. It's easier than spending forever finding that ideal mic placement, and you don't have to worry about someone bumping into your mic stand. Perhaps my favorite part is that Mesa managed to do it all in the analog realm. There is no digital conversion that taking place!
|
|
|
Post by deltone on Jan 25, 2015 19:11:48 GMT -7
...The Cab Clone sounds best when a speaker is plugged in to its output, but it doesn't have to be cranked to sound good... Thanks for the info. Good stuff. Can you expound on this statement a little?
|
|
|
Post by ifailedshapes on Feb 10, 2015 20:22:38 GMT -7
The Cab Clone can be used as a resistive load to run the amp silently, but the output from it sounds better when a speaker is plugged in, too.
|
|