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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Sept 12, 2014 0:30:55 GMT -7
Well, I guess that settles it for me - no more Gibson guitars coming into my life! Looks to me like Henry is shoring up the defences against the imminent demise of GC.............. unsettling times for the Big Two it seems......... time for me to move on....... but talk about squeezing the LIFE out of "brand value" A run-of-the-mill, Les Paul Standard of dubious build quality, with some electronic gizmo attached, for $3,879!! Is he MAD?? So, who else is making guitars out there these days, without ripping the customer off? And making them properly......... now where're did I leave the Collings, Grosh, PRS, Probett, King Bee, Revelator etc. etc. catalogues then?? Have to tell you, that PRS S2 Mira I played yesterday was in a different league from the same priced "cheapo" SG - it was in a different league from the expensive SG Standard I played, at twice the price! Paul Reed Smith must be rubbing his hands with glee at this news........... reverb.com/blog/gibson-to-increase-prices-update-models-for-2015
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 5:28:45 GMT -7
That's NUTS!!! Based on that, my CP Thornton's are a steal, along with Collings, PRS, etc. I was thinking about letting my LP Standard Faded go, but I might hold on a bit to see if the used market jumps 29%!
I think PRS made a great decision with the S2 line. Affordable for the average musician, but still high quality. I like that Mira you posted. Gets the old GAS flowing!
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Post by Maddog on Sept 12, 2014 5:33:31 GMT -7
This is NUTS! They just had a major price increase pretty much across the board less than a year ago...Time to boycott...
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Post by southmusic70 on Sept 12, 2014 5:35:08 GMT -7
Whew!
I sure am glad that I was able to buy my ES330 for $300 when I did.
It was 1968.
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Sept 12, 2014 8:30:56 GMT -7
I think Gibson are going to alienate a HUGE swathe of musicians with this increase........ gigging musicians as hobbyists or semi-pro. We just can't / won't pay that sort of money for a fairly run-of-the-mill guitar with a "brand name" To me a new Les Paul Standard should be around $1800-$2200 tops, given the competition out there. More for some special flame, or name, is fine if you want that sort of thing, but pushing $4 GRAND for a regular guitar?? Get real Henry!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 9:49:41 GMT -7
I don't know, Pete. Let's really think about this for a minute. Do you really believe people would go for this PRS over a Les Paul Standard? I mean, the PRS doesn't have any weight relief and is a paltry 8 lbs 1 oz. It can't be better, since the price is $880 less than the Gibson! I totally dig my Les Paul's, but this SC245 is a KILLER!
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Post by aslerjack on Sept 12, 2014 11:05:12 GMT -7
Didn't Fender do this a few years ago, I remember reading the same reactions.
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Post by Maddog on Sept 12, 2014 12:16:57 GMT -7
^^^^ LESS than a year ago.....
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Post by limenine on Sept 12, 2014 12:35:41 GMT -7
Keep in mind, though, that the source quoted by reverb is no longer up on the 'net - and if I read correctly, was not taken from Gibson's website, but from Amazon.
Troll attack mayhaps?
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Post by The Bad Poodle Experience on Sept 12, 2014 12:43:09 GMT -7
it's hard tellin', not knowin'.
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Post by Christopher on Sept 12, 2014 12:59:18 GMT -7
Troll or not Gibson has made it's bed with a load o junk and their overpriced name will eventually falter aa quality and craftsmanship are second to profit margins and more boutique high end instruments w appts no one wants and dumb impovements go unsold.
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Post by Dustin on Sept 12, 2014 13:13:36 GMT -7
Don't get me wrong: I love my J-45 and my Firebird, but it seems like Gibson has rested on their laurels and pride way too long. There are so many small run and custom builders out there that can make you a comparable or even better instrument for significantly less; you're really only buying the logo. Seems like Fender had this same issue over the last few years (maybe because building a Fender style is easier than a set neck, Gibby style) but now it seems like the price increases are pushing the issue of 'value' versus 'brand name' for all the larger companies. I can understand circling the wagons in preperation for GC possibly going under, but I would think you could make more money selling a bunch of mid range, quality product instead of banking on high dollar, show pieces.
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Post by BritInvasion on Sept 12, 2014 13:19:21 GMT -7
They gotta make up for that big government fine somewheres.
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Post by Jefferson on Sept 12, 2014 14:27:55 GMT -7
stupids (gibson that is)...
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Post by Alan M (aka 'Milky') on Sept 13, 2014 4:21:51 GMT -7
...................but it seems like Gibson has rested on their laurels and pride way too long. There are so many small run and custom builders out there that can make you a comparable or even better instrument for significantly less; .............but now it seems like the price increases are pushing the issue of 'value' versus 'brand name' for all the larger companies..................I would think you could make more money selling a bunch of mid range, quality product instead of banking on high dollar, show pieces. ^^^^^^^^^Agree 100%, Dustin. Several years ago I was seriously considering buying a LP '59 RI, but ended up paying £3k (around $5k) for my Martyn Booth Classic (see my avatar), which was built along traditional Gibson lines, and exactly to the spec agreed between Martyn and myself. Martyn is a very highly regarded luthier here in the UK and is a big Gibson fan (he worked for them for several years in the '70's & '80's). Without doubt the Booth Classic is my #1 and will be with me forever, so resale value is never going to be an issue. I subsequently got another Booth (a Deluxe), which I bought from Peach Guitars (Thnx John ). I still cherish my Gibson's (LP Std and LP 'Jr'), but I think it's unlikely that I'll buy another Gibson, at least not at the crazy prices they're currently asking.
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Sept 28, 2014 2:34:01 GMT -7
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Post by muZician on Sept 28, 2014 3:02:04 GMT -7
unfortunately brands nowadays in business are more important than quality. I love how gibson les paul standards look and feel but up to now I could find one that is worth the money they ask. another increase? it will make my life easier...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2014 4:00:12 GMT -7
I don't think it's optional, Pete. This is on the Gibson website: "Standard on most 2015 models, Gibson G FORCE™ provides the best and simplest experience yet in an automatic tuning system."
My GAS for another Gibby is all but gone.
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Post by BritInvasion on Sept 28, 2014 4:56:27 GMT -7
This type of thing ( strange new "improvements" ) is what started the whole "vintage" guitar thing in the first place. I think this may shove up the prices a little for used, "unadulterated" Gibbys. But there will still be plenty of buyers for the new stuff. I don't know why , but there always is. Just my 2 cents.
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Post by Dannydny on Sept 28, 2014 5:12:35 GMT -7
^^^^^^^^ that's the truth Frank.
But right now, the good news is that the secondary market on used gear is really affordable. You can pick up a early 2000-2003 Les Paul Standard with a beautiful AAA Flamed Top for around $2000 USD. (sometimes even a little less). It's well worth it considering the pricing even on today's models.
I don't get it with the Gibson Historic and Fender Custom Shop prices... You probably loose 1/3 of the value once you walk out the door with one of the pieces!
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Sept 28, 2014 6:43:34 GMT -7
unfortunately brands nowadays in business are more important than quality. I love how gibson les paul standards look and feel but up to now I could find one that is worth the money they ask. another increase? it will make my life easier... Yep. I have my Les Paul Special. I love it, It's staying put. It's probably the only Gibson I'll ever own now. That S2 PRS Mira... excellent! Now to play and consider what else is out there besides Gibson Les Pauls.......... PRS S2 Singlecut? Semi-hollow? Both excellent guitars and much more affordable prices. DZPL Strattavita? (if I can get one without going through Thomann.......) AMAZING value for money..... Godin? The list goes on and on and on.......... This is a good tome to be a guitarist, as far as gear is concerned
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Post by zed on Sept 28, 2014 6:56:34 GMT -7
Plenty of alternatives out of Japan.
I have five LPs and all are MIJ.
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Sept 28, 2014 8:20:15 GMT -7
I don't know, Pete. Let's really think about this for a minute. Do you really believe people would go for this PRS over a Les Paul Standard? I mean, the PRS doesn't have any weight relief and is a paltry 8 lbs 1 oz. It can't be better, since the price is $880 less than the Gibson! I totally dig my Les Paul's, but this SC245 is a KILLER! I got to play one of these yesterday. What a glorious instrument! The neck was just about the right size for me; it has the same scale length as a Les Paul; is beautifully made; and feels like a Custom LP in terms of quality, yet is 2/3 the price! What's not to like?? Oh and it sounds killer Sorry guys, but I am totally over my GAS for a Gibson Les Paul. I have grown to love the general shape, and the tone, but I can easily get a MUCH better made instrument which sounds exactly the same to these weary ears, for a fraction of the price........ all it won't have is a Gibson logo. I can live without that.
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Post by wubberdubber on Sept 28, 2014 8:46:34 GMT -7
I don't "get" Gibson's business approach at all. Pricing themselves farther and farther away from the average guitarist and catering more and more to the richer demographic in this kind of economy seems limiting to me. Yes, they'll get more money out of what they sell, but doesn't that limit the sales at some point? What am I missing?
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Post by greenblues58 on Sept 28, 2014 9:19:15 GMT -7
Think you all need to take a look here no price increases and extremely happy with mine for a lot less than an R8/R9 Corsa Guitars
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Sept 28, 2014 10:00:39 GMT -7
I don't "get" Gibson's business approach at all. Pricing themselves farther and farther away from the average guitarist and catering more and more to the richer demographic in this kind of economy seems limiting to me. Yes, they'll get more money out of what they sell, but doesn't that limit the sales at some point? What am I missing? You're missing Harley Davidson, IMHO....... Just look at what they did, brand wise / price wise, at the turn of the century.......... Not having a go, you understand, but they KNEW their market - baby-boomers with plenty of disposable income, and a love of nostalgia. Let's face it, the "quality" end of the guitar market is packed with men (and women) of a "certain age", who have a high degree of musical nostalgia for a bygone era. Maybe Henry is a whole lot sharper than we're giving him credit for......... the kids can always buy Epiphone!!
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Post by wubberdubber on Sept 28, 2014 10:30:24 GMT -7
^^^Probably so. But what happens when the "certain age" group starts dying off?..lol.
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Post by Pete aka shouldb on Sept 28, 2014 10:35:06 GMT -7
^^^Probably so. But what happens when the "certain age" group starts dying off?..lol. Exactly!! But as US corporations post their results every 3 MONTHS, and Henry will probably retire in a few years, looking that far ahead will be someone else's problem......... Plus, if he positions it right, his products will appeal to everyone of a certain age as they reach that age, and as our ageing population gets bigger, maybe he is planning for the future....?? Just thinking out loud, as it's academic for me now anyway
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Post by wubberdubber on Sept 28, 2014 16:51:12 GMT -7
From what I see, having worked in music stores for the past almost 20 years, the next generation is not as interested in the "big three" (Fender, Martin, Gibson) as the baby boomers were, and don't have that disposable income for the big-bucks vintage stuff they had, so maybe Henry's just getting while the getting's good, so to speak.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 5:26:33 GMT -7
I like the Historics. My '60 Special is easily as good of a guitar as my real '57 Jr was. Like others have stated, you can always find a good deal on a used Historic. There were a couple 'updated' LP types that sort of liked the idea of until I actually played one. TheGary Moore BFG seemed like it might be cool but the corners they cut on finishing that guitar made it feel like junk in my hands. There have only been a couple non Historics that I've played and liked in the last 15 years and those were Firebirds and SGs. I think used Historics are usually priced about right.
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