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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2014 5:10:07 GMT -7
Hello Guys,
anybody have a burning question on the recording front? Suggestion for a Home Studio Tips entry?
Fire away.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Aug 25, 2014 6:18:47 GMT -7
Thinking of switching my recording setup from the PC (that keeps crapping out) to the Mac (utterly reliable). Should I stick with Pro Tools on the Mac, or is there a simpler way to go?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2014 7:05:51 GMT -7
Benttop, the only answer to that question involves Opinion. I'll give you mine.
I use Pro-tools. I'm not the biggest fan of the company but I do like the software. They have made huge improvements in the last 4 or 5 years. If you know Pro-tools I would stick with Pro-tools. If you were starting out I'd still recommend Pro-Tools because more people use it and it makes collaboration easier. It's also a fully supported software. Also, you no longer have to use Avid's interfaces to work with PT.
If somebody was starting out I'd recommend Pro-tools unless they had some really good friends that they worked with who used Logic or something else. In that case you may want to use what your friend has because 1, it'll be easier to collaborate and more importantly 2, because you'll have a buddy that can answer questions for you!
FWIW I use an iMac at home and it's stunningly stable with my setup using PT-10 and the UA Apollo Quad.
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Post by jesslm02 on Aug 25, 2014 8:53:42 GMT -7
I like the tips you've posted so far. Some suggestions:
1. Guitar/amp recording techniques 2. Basic equipment needed to get started. 3. Maybe some basics on getting each instrument to set well in the mix.
I realize you could probably write a book either one of these and still not discuss it in its entirety. But these are just some they came to mind.
Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Proboards
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2014 9:07:47 GMT -7
Oooh! Ooooh! I've got one!
Let's talk mixing. Here's my usual dilemma: Create scratch drum track, record parts, tweak drum track to better fit parts. Now what? I don't mean panning, volume levels/automation, etc., but that my "mixes" such as they are, tend to be a little non-distinct. Each track soloed sounds the way I want it to, but somehow the sum is less than the whole of its parts. Everything sort of sits on top of each other.
I know there are plenty of tools in my DAW (Logic X) to help, but I have no idea what I'm doing. I've used some of the presets for EQ stuff, and it helps some, but I'd love to get a perspective on how to make each part sit in its own area of the mix, and not just on top of everything else.
My setup is typically variously mic'd guitars/amps>Apogee Duet>Logic X. Pretty simple.
Feel free answer at your leisure - I know this is kind of involved. I've thought about hiring someone to spend a couple hours with me in the basement to show me this sort of thing, but have no idea if there's anyone in my area that does this.
Adam
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2014 10:01:31 GMT -7
Can you tell me how you are micing the drums ? What mikes and where are they placed?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2014 10:32:38 GMT -7
Drums are virtual. Either Drummer in Logic, or EZDrummer. Obviously those sounds are very tweakable as well, and I am similarly clueless.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2014 11:21:15 GMT -7
Ah, When I use EZ drummer I like the sounds in the "Nashville" expansion pack. I usually bring down the kick and snare a little and lean on the overheads and room. Then I would compress that stereo track. Fast attack, slow release.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2014 13:19:51 GMT -7
the other thing about EZ drummer is to try the different drums. There's an arrow w a pull down on each drum. Find the kit you like the best. Don't be afraid to mess with it.
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Post by Maddog on Aug 25, 2014 16:28:16 GMT -7
OK Eric. Thanks first for fielding all our questions.
My Q: Is it possible to build a jam room/band rehearsal space (free standing small building)that can double as a recording studio? I cannot afford both, yet I'm wanting to build a jam room (first priority) big enough to accommodate a 6 piece band that maybe could also double as a recording room. Is it possible, or will the recording function suffer in a room dedicated as a band hall?
Thanks again, brother!
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Aug 25, 2014 17:29:13 GMT -7
Benttop, the only answer to that question involves Opinion. I'll give you mine. I use Pro-tools. I'm not the biggest fan of the company but I do like the software. They have made huge improvements in the last 4 or 5 years. If you know Pro-tools I would stick with Pro-tools. If you were starting out I'd still recommend Pro-Tools because more people use it and it makes collaboration easier. It's also a fully supported software. Also, you no longer have to use Avid's interfaces to work with PT. If somebody was starting out I'd recommend Pro-tools unless they had some really good friends that they worked with who used Logic or something else. In that case you may want to use what your friend has because 1, it'll be easier to collaborate and more importantly 2, because you'll have a buddy that can answer questions for you! FWIW I use an iMac at home and it's stunningly stable with my setup using PT-10 and the UA Apollo Quad. Thanks for that. Downloading my Mac version 9 now. Wow their server is slow!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2014 17:30:32 GMT -7
Lee, yes it is possible to build a jam room/band rehearsal space where you can make very good recordings. Basically, a good room is a good room. A lot of great records have been made in 1 room no control room studios. I'm in the 3rd place that I've built that way. The Band's 2nd album "The Band" was done that way. Lots of Lanios stuff was done that way. I'd recommend you check out Ethan Wiener's tips on the Real Traps site and also buy Rod Gervais' book Home Studios How to Build It Like the Pros. The layout of the room will be important. As you get closer feel free to PM me. You'll want to budget for some room treatment (and I'm not talking about foam) There is no joy like making a record standing in the same spot where you rehearse. Last 2 Tom Petty records were made in their rehearsal room. They do have a little control room there though. If you have enough space it might be helpful to build a couple booths. In fact, as you get closer you could start a thread and I'll chime in. It may help everybody a little bit. The big answer is Yes!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2014 17:37:22 GMT -7
One more thing on ajb20002's question. I went upstairs and messed with EZ Drummer a little bit since responding. On the mixer pane of EZ Drummer there are Mixer Pre-sets. I suggest you scroll through some of those and see if there is something there that you like and tweak from there. A couple tips on top of that would be... The Overheads are totally hard panned. Sometimes that sounds un-natural. You may want to bring them in a little bit. Also, the hi-hat is way over panned to the side in my opinion. Try bring that a little closer to the center, the tom toms too. This panning stuff can make things sound more natural. As I said before sometimes the close kick and snare are a little loud. You can get a lot of vibe by bringing up the room mic in EZ drummer. Also, sometimes they have the hi hat level down kind of low.
So in conclusion Listen to all the drum kits. tweak when you find one you like Listen to the Mixer pre-sets then tweak from there if you find one. then put some overall compression on the stereo channel in Logic. Fast attack, slow release..
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Post by Maddog on Aug 25, 2014 18:14:38 GMT -7
Thanks Eric. I'm hoping for this to be a winter project; or at least a winter start project. I'll be doing most of it myself including plumbing and wiring, so I prolly need to order the book and read it soon. Thanks again for the heady advice....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2014 19:00:07 GMT -7
Thanks for the info, Roscoe. Lots to think about/play with there. My problem is that I get a decent enough drum sound, and then dial up a decent (plug in amp sim from logic, as I don't have a bass amp) bass tone. From there, guitars get layered, and I'm eventually done. Things get panned, volume automated, etc. It just seems that each track on its own (I'm talking mostly guitar/bass) sounds fat, punchy on its own, but all the tracks are played together (the full song) sound a bit muddy. Is there a way to get a greater separation between instruments "in the box"? (I'm willing to take the public shaming of a critique, if needed.) ((And, yes, I know there are other fora to discuss this at, but I'm already on the internet enough )) -Adam
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2014 20:06:44 GMT -7
Having them sound great individually is just the firs step. Then they all have to work together. (i.e. that guitar may sound heroic on its own but won't fit in the mix unless you pull some bottom out)
Theater vs a Movie
Live is like theater. The audience is listing and they can choose to look wherever they want. Record is the Movie. You have to steer them to the important parts and everything is not the most important thing all the time. (Lead vocal and guitar solo being close ups ect)
I worked with a famous english guy mixer. He put the tape up. Put the vocal up to Zero and got it sounding good then added the whole band one at a time but he never soloed anything and he never turned off that vocal. Lot of ways to skin this cat.
I don't know how adept you are with using a compressor but it becomes pretty essential in mixing, especially on your master fader. But, you have to get the whole mix sounding pretty good before you turn that thing on. Then you find where it helps your whole mix.
If you know somebody who's good you might think about paying them to come over and mix a song on your rig. You can learn a lot that way.
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Post by The Bad Poodle Experience on Aug 27, 2014 13:53:01 GMT -7
Hey Eric,
My home setup is so basic. usually bass, multiple guitars, vox and drum machine (usually record to a stereo pair and not individual drum parts to individual tracks) and i'm recording to a TASCAM 24-track all in one recorder. no outboard gear at all. My question is do you have some tips on how to create a more 3-dimensional mix? Are there tools besides panning i can use to make things have a bit more depth? Also, assuming a 180 degree mix space, do you have favorite placement (left to right) for different things such as solo guitar, lead vocal, backup vocals, drums or is it always dependent on the song?
thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 14:30:26 GMT -7
Hey Eric, My home setup is so basic. usually bass, multiple guitars, vox and drum machine (usually record to a stereo pair and not individual drum parts to individual tracks) and i'm recording to a TASCAM 24-track all in one recorder. no outboard gear at all. My question is do you have some tips on how to create a more 3-dimensional mix? Are there tools besides panning i can use to make things have a bit more depth? Also, assuming a 180 degree mix space, do you have favorite placement (left to right) for different things such as solo guitar, lead vocal, backup vocals, drums or is it always dependent on the song? thanks! Can you link me to the model of your machine? I assume you are mixing on it also.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 14:31:10 GMT -7
Thanks for the info, Roscoe. Lots to think about/play with there. My problem is that I get a decent enough drum sound, and then dial up a decent (plug in amp sim from logic, as I don't have a bass amp) bass tone. From there, guitars get layered, and I'm eventually done. Things get panned, volume automated, etc. It just seems that each track on its own (I'm talking mostly guitar/bass) sounds fat, punchy on its own, but all the tracks are played together (the full song) sound a bit muddy. Is there a way to get a greater separation between instruments "in the box"? (I'm willing to take the public shaming of a critique, if needed.) ((And, yes, I know there are other fora to discuss this at, but I'm already on the internet enough )) -Adam Post the tune! Happy to listen for a Z-bro.
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Post by The Bad Poodle Experience on Aug 27, 2014 14:34:39 GMT -7
Hey Eric, My home setup is so basic. usually bass, multiple guitars, vox and drum machine (usually record to a stereo pair and not individual drum parts to individual tracks) and i'm recording to a TASCAM 24-track all in one recorder. no outboard gear at all. My question is do you have some tips on how to create a more 3-dimensional mix? Are there tools besides panning i can use to make things have a bit more depth? Also, assuming a 180 degree mix space, do you have favorite placement (left to right) for different things such as solo guitar, lead vocal, backup vocals, drums or is it always dependent on the song? thanks! Can you link me to the model of your machine? I assume you are mixing on it also. tascam.com/product/2488neo/there ya go, thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 15:14:05 GMT -7
I used to have the Roland version of that thing. I found it pretty darn hard to deal with the tiny screen.... but. In the panning spectrum. Stuff that should be in the middle (of course all rules are made to be broken) *Lead Vocal *Bass Guitar *Lead Guitar ***For most people the drums get a stereo spread but the kick and snare are up the middle. Guitars In a 2 guitar band it certainly helps to have them panned a little one on one side, one on the other 10-2 o'clock or 9-3. If you are doing a trio with one guitar I absolutely love to track with 2 amps one a little dirtier than the other panned all the way L-R If you are adding 1 acoustic to the 2 guitar band I usually put it up the center. If you double that acoustic I might pan the 2 of them hard L-R basically you can spread out the stuff a bit, almost like if the people were on stage but unless it's a double I wouldn't do a hard pan. I'm looking for an article that really explains compression because that's one thing I think you guys could use help with. It's a hard thing to understand at first. I'm really going to look for one because there's a lot of stuff that really needs compression. Vocals, bass, clean guitars, the drum overheads and then after everything, a compressor on the stereo master fader. Let me know if I'm helping at all.
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Post by The Bad Poodle Experience on Aug 27, 2014 15:25:28 GMT -7
I used to have the Roland version of that thing. I found it pretty darn hard to deal with the tiny screen.... but. In the panning spectrum. Stuff that should be in the middle (of course all rules are made to be broken) *Lead Vocal *Bass Guitar *Lead Guitar ***For most people the drums get a stereo spread but the kick and snare are up the middle. Guitars In a 2 guitar band it certainly helps to have them panned a little one on one side, one on the other 10-2 o'clock or 9-3. If you are doing a trio with one guitar I absolutely love to track with 2 amps one a little dirtier than the other panned all the way L-R If you are adding 1 acoustic to the 2 guitar band I usually put it up the center. If you double that acoustic I might pan the 2 of them hard L-R basically you can spread out the stuff a bit, almost like if the people were on stage but unless it's a double I wouldn't do a hard pan. I'm looking for an article that really explains compression because that's one thing I think you guys could use help with. It's a hard thing to understand at first. I'm really going to look for one because there's a lot of stuff that really needs compression. Vocals, bass, clean guitars, the drum overheads and then after everything, a compressor on the stereo master fader. Let me know if I'm helping at all. yes, thank you. I think i knew most of what you said but you definitely added some details i was unaware of. Yes, the screen is a nightmare and the mastering piece is a bit dodgey... there are built-in mastering presets for generic musical styles (i.e. pop, rock, classical, house, etc) and I typically will tweek them but because i don't have my room situation quite right and as i really don't have a firm grasp of compression basics, i probably end up making things worse. i tend to keep the drums spread left/right but i'm going to see if there's individual outputs so i can move the kick/snare into the center or maybe i can modify the kit settings for pan. not sure that's an option though. again, thanks for the input...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 15:28:13 GMT -7
I try to use very little reverb most of the time. Just enough that when you turn it off you miss it but not so much that you hear it. I usually use reverb on the lead vocal, harmony vocal, guitar solo and maybe just a bit on the overheads. I usually use a short 'slap' on those same tracks to varying degrees.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 18:06:51 GMT -7
Thanks for the info, Roscoe. Lots to think about/play with there. My problem is that I get a decent enough drum sound, and then dial up a decent (plug in amp sim from logic, as I don't have a bass amp) bass tone. From there, guitars get layered, and I'm eventually done. Things get panned, volume automated, etc. It just seems that each track on its own (I'm talking mostly guitar/bass) sounds fat, punchy on its own, but all the tracks are played together (the full song) sound a bit muddy. Is there a way to get a greater separation between instruments "in the box"? (I'm willing to take the public shaming of a critique, if needed.) ((And, yes, I know there are other fora to discuss this at, but I'm already on the internet enough )) -Adam Post the tune! Happy to listen for a Z-bro. Cool, thanks, and will do when I'm back in town next week. Would love to see some sort of info on compression as it relates to recording. I have a compressor on my board that I sort of understand, but pretty clueless when it comes to any of the effects in logic.
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Post by Christopher on Aug 27, 2014 18:15:17 GMT -7
Question about cab placement: do you prefer on the ground coupling or somewhat elevated? I like to catch the room I'm in with a mic farther away and one off axis up close for attack. Do you have any preference or starting points Mr. Eric?
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Post by GuitarZ on Aug 27, 2014 18:56:23 GMT -7
I would say 'right on' on the reverb. I had the pleasure of playing with a former LA Studio Musician Bass Player. He was a very nice guy, positive, really played in the groove, and was humble. He never critiqued my DIY recordings although one night on the way to rehearsal I asked him about them. He politely asked whether I was interested in his perspective, and I said "yes" (and then started to panic). His first comment was "I just hear cheap reverb spread over everything. Start there." I started to defend my style, stopped myself, listened, and was amazed at how he lifted my blinders. I haven't found my reverb comfort zone yet (the dude moved back to LA), but my recordings sound cleaner while I work my way there.
Question: For the vocal, what do you hear when it's enough? Or, is it just ears and experience?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 5:37:07 GMT -7
Question: For the vocal, what do you hear when it's enough? Or, is it just ears and experience? GuitarZ, I answered that one a couple posts up. Enough reverb to miss it when you turn it off. That is my preference unless I'm going for some kind of drenched effect.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 5:48:55 GMT -7
Question about cab placement: do you prefer on the ground coupling or somewhat elevated? I like to catch the room I'm in with a mic farther away and one off axis up close for attack. Do you have any preference or starting points Mr. Eric? I think guitar mic-ing is gonna need it's own topic. I personally prefer guitar amps on the floor in the studio and on stage. When a guitar amp is decoupled from the floor it is "less" to me. If there is too much bass, move it away from the wall or turn down the bass. I came up recording in the early '80's. I've done all the multiple mic-ing tricks out there. When people started re-discovering ribbon mics in the mid 90's it was a mindblower for me recording the electric guitar. Ribbon mikes by nature have figure 8 patterns. They pick up from the front and the rear. They also give a very natural sound and they don't have to be jammed into the grill of the speaker to sound 'full'. A ribbon can give the sound of the amp and the room at the same time and its easy to adjust the balance just by moving the microphone. I usually start with a ribbon mic around 6 to 9 inches from the speaker. Move it away for more room, closer for less. To me in the context of a band recording 1 really well placed microphone almost always beats the sound of 2 or more. In the old days when we were limited to 24 tracks you didn't see much multi mic-ed guitar tracks. If you did they were very often carefully combined onto one track. When I'm mixing music that I didn't record I often get stuff with 4 microphones on everything !!! I almost always go through those mics and pick the one that sounds good and 90% of the time I will hide all the others.
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Post by The Bad Poodle Experience on Aug 28, 2014 9:41:32 GMT -7
thoughts on The Haas effect? is it something you use?
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Post by Christopher on Aug 28, 2014 9:52:29 GMT -7
Eric-thanks for the insight. Next time I'm in the studio I'll ask for the ribbon royer or not. I'd love a thread on amps and miking for certain sounds, room reverb/ coloring etc. Thanks for the time and response.
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