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Post by robb on Oct 27, 2006 12:58:09 GMT -7
Hey, I was just wondering if there's any tone difference between say a #6 EL84S and a #7 EL84S in regards to mid smoothness, treble, etc....or if its simply a gain rating of when the tube will break up.
If this is topic has already been posted and discussed, please point me in that direction...
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Post by billyguitar on Oct 27, 2006 13:15:53 GMT -7
Can't be much difference. If I was at a store and that's all they had, I'd buy them.
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Post by foxx on Oct 27, 2006 14:28:42 GMT -7
There is a noticable difference between the GT rated 5 and the 7, even then not much. More character with the 5's at lower volume, more harmonic richness.
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Post by guitarboy02451 on Oct 29, 2006 10:43:59 GMT -7
I have 5's in my Sr. didn't notice any diff between 5's and 6's. pg
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Post by myles on Oct 30, 2006 10:30:31 GMT -7
Hey, I was just wondering if there's any tone difference between say a #6 EL84S and a #7 EL84S in regards to mid smoothness, treble, etc....or if its simply a gain rating of when the tube will break up. If this is topic has already been posted and discussed, please point me in that direction... There will be a touch more clean headroom in the 7 but perhaps so little difference that could not notice it. The GT scale is actually about a 250 point scale that is broken down into 10 numbers. So, as an example, let's take a #5 tube. It would have a number of the computer syetem from say 80-100. If you got a duet of 5's that were two 98's as an example and then a set of 6's that were 104's you would not notice any difference. Then again, there would be more of a difference in a set of low 5's vs high 6's. As a side note ... many stores that do not have matched quads in stock but have sets of matched duets will try to sell a customer two duets of #6's as an example. Two duets DO NOT make a matched quad. On tubes like 6L6 and EL34 sets, on duet based amps I always get quads as that assures me two matched duet sets so I have one duet as a perfectly matched spare backup set. There is a lot on the GT rating system and how it works on my site at the page - www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/Rating.html
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Nov 9, 2006 15:00:33 GMT -7
This is touching on something I've been meaning to post about for a long time. I have quite a few Dr. Z EL84 amps and used to buy my GT #6's from Musicians Friend. Now you cannot specify #6's; they just sell them as "#4-#6". That begs two questions:
1) The already-asked "will I notice a big difference in #4 vs. #6 in my Z's
2) Where do y'all get your GT EL84 #6's? I need to buy quite a few....
PDW
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Post by myles on Nov 12, 2006 15:27:43 GMT -7
This is touching on something I've been meaning to post about for a long time. I have quite a few Dr. Z EL84 amps and used to buy my GT #6's from Musicians Friend. Now you cannot specify #6's; they just sell them as "#4-#6". That begs two questions: 1) The already-asked "will I notice a big difference in #4 vs. #6 in my Z's 2) Where do y'all get your GT EL84 #6's? I need to buy quite a few.... PDW I think there is a difference between a 4 and a 6. I find it easy to get mine as I am at GT. Folks that order off the GT website can put a note in the comment section and specify exact ratings they want. If my name is in the comment field somewhere then they route the order to me and I actually hand trace a set for the person that placed the order as I like sets that vacuum curve trace certain ways for certain amps. So ... if you put my name in a comment also tell me what amp.
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Post by nathan38 on Nov 19, 2006 16:32:28 GMT -7
As a side note ... many stores that do not have matched quads in stock but have sets of matched duets will try to sell a customer two duets of #6's as an example. Two duets DO NOT make a matched quad. my local dealer sold me two #6 duets last week.....will this be a problem...premature failure, hard on amp, etc etc.
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Post by nathan38 on Nov 28, 2006 16:20:22 GMT -7
myles??
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Post by foxx on Nov 28, 2006 18:58:13 GMT -7
Nathan, what amp are you using? If it's the Mazerati, you are okay, IF you kept them in pairs AND put each pair together. It has a split load bias and you can use to unmatched pairs. Other el-84 powered amps are not split-load bias and need matching quads to function.
Maybe you should find out from Myles before you use those tubes again?
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Post by nathan38 on Nov 29, 2006 5:35:32 GMT -7
Nathan, what amp are you using? If it's the Mazerati, you are okay, IF you kept them in pairs AND put each pair together. It has a split load bias and you can use to unmatched pairs. Other el-84 powered amps are not split-load bias and need matching quads to function. Maybe you should find out from Myles before you use those tubes again? they're in my maz sr.
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Post by nathan38 on Nov 29, 2006 6:33:29 GMT -7
Actually...the last 4 sets I bought were two duets as well.....I was wondering why some of them looked like they were used more than others when i pulled them out.....more of the red paint was burned up.
I was under the impression my amp was really hard on tubes and have been replacing them quite a lot......could it be that they arn't really matched.
Why doesn't groove tubes put that info on they're website or something......this kinda pisses me off.....spending a couple hundred bucks on tubes and them not being matched.
And they wonder why so many people hate groove tubes.
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Post by billyguitar on Nov 29, 2006 13:31:04 GMT -7
I never heard of anyone hating Groove Tubes.
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Post by nathan38 on Nov 29, 2006 14:22:21 GMT -7
I never heard of anyone hating Groove Tubes. everyone I know hates them and most people seem to have stopped buying them around here...even spending more money and ordering them online than what it would cost to go down and pick some up at the GT dealer. The Mullard reissue put a lot of folks off and for the longest time it seemed like the country of origin was a litle cloudy on a lot of thri products.
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Post by nathan38 on Dec 3, 2006 11:41:52 GMT -7
I have been noticing a lot less volume from my amp lately......wonder if it's the tubes.
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Post by nitehawk55 on Dec 3, 2006 15:02:56 GMT -7
I have been noticing a lot less volume from my amp lately......wonder if it's the tubes. Generally that would indicate the output tubes or loss of hearing ;D I too am surprised that buying 2 duets of #6 GT's would not = a matched quad . I agree that GT should explain this clearly on the package/website and that thier dealers know this too and make sure the customer gets what he needs ! GT's are quite costly compared to JJ's and other brands .
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Post by foxx on Dec 3, 2006 22:11:52 GMT -7
Try a new matched quad in that amp and maybe even new preamp tubes. Make sure that V2 is matched. Your amp will be more balanced and the tubes will last longer and sound better and make the feel of the amp more pure. Ask Myles Rose, in the expert section about ordering from Groove Tubes, he can advise you on what to put in your amp. If they aren't hand selected tubes, then they may not get you the great tone that you can get from your Maz Sr.
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Post by nathan38 on Dec 3, 2006 22:23:53 GMT -7
I have been noticing a lot less volume from my amp lately......wonder if it's the tubes. Generally that would indicate the output tubes or loss of hearing ;D I too am surprised that buying 2 duets of #6 GT's would not = a matched quad . I agree that GT should explain this clearly on the package/website and that thier dealers know this too and make sure the customer gets what he needs ! GT's are quite costly compared to JJ's and other brands . What was that......speak up....I can't hear you. Yeah......GT should totally make that known to their customers.
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Post by nathan38 on Dec 3, 2006 22:31:28 GMT -7
Try a new matched quad in that amp and maybe even new preamp tubes. Make sure that V2 is matched. Your amp will be more balanced and the tubes will last longer and sound better and make the feel of the amp more pure. Ask Myles Rose, in the expert section about ordering from Groove Tubes, he can advise you on what to put in your amp. If they aren't hand selected tubes, then they may not get you the great tone that you can get from your Maz Sr. I run late 60's Blackburn Mullards.....I got about 25 of them kicking around....I usually try about 4 or 5 of them in any given spot and pick wich one sound the best.....I think they'll probably last me a long time.....what are they rated for 10 million hours in a b52.....my Maz might be litle easier on them. I've been using the el84 S because that's what the Dr recomends and I've found them to sound good in my amp compared to other new production tubes......that and they can be had locally with out much fuss.....and I was under the impression they were matched.....but now that i think about it, my dealer doesn't even stock quads...just duets.....I must have 4 or 5 sets of used quaded up duets kicking around. How much time have you guys been getting out of a quad of these tubes......seems I go through them like socks.
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Post by nathan38 on Dec 7, 2006 4:07:46 GMT -7
myles?
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Post by myles on Dec 7, 2006 11:43:20 GMT -7
What is the main question here?
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Post by nathan38 on Dec 7, 2006 14:38:03 GMT -7
What is the main question here? Will having mismatched sets of number 6's cause any problems...like premature failure, lack of volume, is it hard on the amp...shortened tube life....etc. You can see I'm a bit ticked at buying sets of matched tubes that arn't actually matched, let alone paying a premium for them.....why isn't this info on the GT website or packaging......is this why i've been replacing tubes at an accelerated rate, or is it cause my amp is actually hard on tubes.
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Post by nathan38 on Dec 12, 2006 11:00:01 GMT -7
thanks myles.
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Post by myles on Dec 12, 2006 11:14:45 GMT -7
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Post by nathan38 on Dec 12, 2006 12:13:23 GMT -7
I was being sarcastic. you've avoided my question for a super long time......but obviously check the thread often enough. You would think that a guy who works for GT would be a litle more helpfull to a GT customer.
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Post by taswegian on Dec 12, 2006 16:18:30 GMT -7
I was being sarcastic. you've avoided my question for a super long time......but obviously check the thread often enough. You would think that a guy who works for GT would be a litle more helpfull to a GT customer. Nathan38, forgive me if I come across sounding like the Z-Talk Police but we have an unspoken ethic here to help people out, not dis them. Myles goes to extaordinary lengths to help people on this forum and is one of the forums greatest assets. He certainly doesn't deserve to be dissed by someone on this forum. Like Aretha said...
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Post by nathan38 on Dec 12, 2006 16:42:43 GMT -7
Well.... I generally answer questions directed to me from my own area in here for one thing. For another thing ... if you have a GT question send it to me at GT if you want a GT answer. And ... when I am browsing a post like this I do not look at each entry. There are many folks here that have a great handle on the rating system, and ... the rating system is explained on the GT website as well as on my own website. If I feel the post was answered here in a good way there is little reason for me to repeat what was said. If you want the answer from me then post it in my section. I guess the gut level feelings that I developed in the military still serve me well as it seems for some unknown reason there must have been a force bigger than you or me that kept me from noticing your posts? Grow up a little. If you have a direct question and it is not answered when you post it on a forum where many people can provide an answer then don't go off half roostered before you at least have the courtesy to contact the individual. I will say, that until your username is changed, that I will remember it and not answer any question you have from me here. You want a GT questions answered .... email me there. By the way ... I am NOT being sarcastic. Myles added after reading some of your other posts here.... Actually, after reading what you had to say about GT don't bother asking me anything from there either. Myles....my questions were directly related to a post YOU made in this thread......you even asked what was the question again.....I would assume, in a forum you are a moderator and post information about groove tubes, as a groove tubes rep......that someone could ask a question about groove tubes in direct response to your post........am I missing something here. show me once where you answered my question. can you post a link to the GT information that says a a duet of a certain number is not matched to a duet of the same number and should not be used as matched quads. you don't have to be condecending about things......I asked you a simple question......there must be a certain rule somewhere where some groove tubes questions make good forum conversation.....but other questions need to be emailed to groove tubes directly. You know...I'd totally understand if it was just some random question I had.......but YOU made the post. Where on this forum have I made other posts that you find offensive to the point that I should get ignored......show me one. Why am I not suprised that this is how you'd respond on here, judging from your ettiquette on other guitar forums. I have about 4 or 5 sets of quads lying around that I bought as duets under the impression that they were matched.....all number 6's.....who'da thunk otherwise. Thanks again myles.....you're the best....groove tubes forever.
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Post by nathan38 on Dec 12, 2006 16:46:09 GMT -7
I was being sarcastic. you've avoided my question for a super long time......but obviously check the thread often enough. You would think that a guy who works for GT would be a litle more helpfull to a GT customer. Nathan38, forgive me if I come across sounding like the Z-Talk Police but we have an unspoken ethic here to help people out, not dis them. Myles goes to extaordinary lengths to help people on this forum and is one of the forums greatest assets. He certainly doesn't deserve to be dissed by someone on this forum. Like Aretha said... Well.....it started out respectfull enough.....I was just asking a question.....you can see where it started going down hill. I fail to see where I'm in the wrong about this.......can someone enlighten me.
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Post by myles on Dec 12, 2006 18:31:23 GMT -7
Nathan,
I went back and deleted my last two responses to you. They were not constructive to the nature of this forum.
I think you and I do not see things in the same way but I am not going to get into the nonsense here that I see on other forums.
I have nothing more to say to you and in the future will not answer any of your particular questions.
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Post by foxx on Dec 12, 2006 18:36:39 GMT -7
Yes Nathan, 1 robb started this thread 2 I responed to your question with "Ask Myles Rose, in the expert section about ordering from Groove Tubes, he can advise you on what to put in your amp." 3 you accepted a belief about the GT number rating system, and are suffering from cognitive dissonance in light of your misunderstanding. or, you made another assumtion and were wrong, and now you have wasted money on the wrong tubes, and may have caused some wear or damage to the amp.
Your situation does suck.
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