drc
New Member
Posts: 37
|
Post by drc on Mar 9, 2014 0:43:13 GMT -7
I had no idea what section of the forum to ask this question so I just chose this one. I'm pretty sure the good Dr doesn't plan on making custom amps but I am wondering if this is possible. I have a Dr. Z RxES and a Stangray. I absolutely love both of these amps. Even though there is quite a bit of crossover between them using single coils the Ray does the glassy cleans and twang in a way that the RxES doesn't quite do and the RxES sounds great with humbuckers or a tele for that past the edge of breakup that I can't get from the Ray without some juice. That and the Ray just doesn't handle buckers in a way I like unless they are low wind or in parallel. So what I really want.....
**** A two input amp in headshell about the size of a standard Marshall, with the full preamp section of a Stangray and the full preamp section of an RxES both feeding the same power section with a half power switch. ****
I'd be more than happy (and in fact prefer) to use an A/B/Y switcher to flip flop between the two preamps. Right now the only amp on the market that might be close to this seems to be the Morgan Dual 20 or 40. And honestly I'd take the 20. Not sure how many guys on this forum have played a Morgan but I haven't. I've only heard an AC20 live when Toad The Wet Sprocket rolled through Chicago a few years ago. I remembered the guitarist was a Matchless guy years back but his AC20's sounded really good. That said hearing them and playing them are two different things.
So my reasons for asking this are #1: Bringing two heads this similar to each other to the same gig is almost silly and #2: They will both rip your head off without an attenuator. The RxES more so than the Ray. I am wondering if the two channel Dual 20 will get me in the ballpark of handling both these amps in one chassis with one power section that has less output?
-Does the EF side get close to the bounce and snap of the Ray? -Does the 12AX7 side get close to the RxES?
For the guys that say keep them all and buy a Morgan - I wish I could. If there was a Morgan dealer in Chicago I'd be all over it but I don't wanna take a chance on selling these two great heads if they don't fit the bill. Of course my two amp issue would be over if the Dr. wanted to make an amp like this. But maybe the power sections on the two amps are too different to make it work. I'm sure someone has better knowledge of the guts of these two.
|
|
|
Post by John on Mar 9, 2014 7:39:20 GMT -7
You're stuck taking two heads to a gig. There's a device, an amp switcher (I can't remember the name, someone here on the forum will remember) that allows you to plug two heads into one cabinet. You'll also need a switcher out front to choose the amp.
I'd say...(in order)
1) If you want a channel switching amp, then get the Morgan...or.. 2) Learn to adapt to either the 'ray or the RxES. 3) have you considered a lower powered amp? What about finding a used Rxjr? Or a Maz Jr or Ghia? Less chance of needing an attenuator, and they all sound great. 4) consider pedals. A lot of the time, a pedal can achieve the same result as a channel switch. (or amp switch)
The Doc does not make custom amps and will not do custom work on his existing amps. We had a problem here on the forum a few years ago when a guy aggressively pursued/hassled the Doc to make custom amps for him. Doc said no. The guy kept pushing the issue, and was banished from the forum.
And as far as finding someone (other than the Doc) to take the preamps of the 'ray and RxES...and combining them into a channel switching amp with the same power section: I think that would be a waste of time and money. Other pursuits will be cheaper, easier and quicker. You'd be chopping up two great amps (and spend thousands of $$) to make an amp that would have a resale value of practically nothing.
|
|
|
Post by randalp3000 on Mar 9, 2014 9:13:11 GMT -7
I have a dual 40, a stingray, and had an rxes. The Morgan is a pretty dead nuts AC30 Top Boost(Z Wreck) and an AC15 normal channel(ef86). Neither of these sound very close to the Z's. The Ray has very scooped mids and the ef86(AC 15) channel sounds much fuller and fatter. The RXES has more of a Marshall tone stack which has a lot more mids than the vox TS. Also the output sections in the Z's are bit different. The Ray is pretty standard Vox phase inverter and output section, the Rx uses a split load cathode bias and uses higher voltage and lower current.
gotta go, I'll try and finish later
I use a similar two channel amp that I've built with an ab box and it works great however.
|
|
drc
New Member
Posts: 37
|
Post by drc on Mar 9, 2014 21:14:10 GMT -7
John: I pretty much figured the Doc didn't do custom jobs. It was more daydreaming and leading to the question of "can the Dual 20 pull it off?" I'm already switching between a higher gain Marshall type amp and a Z. I'd just love the to have both my Z's in the rig.
Randalp: Your info on the back end of both amps was pretty much the info I was looking for. I had a feeling those amps had more going on than a different preamp scheme. Funny, when people ask me why I have two Z's I always tell them the RxES has a little Marshall going on vs the Ray being more traditional AC30 but with the bass of some Twins I've played. Too bad about the Morgan. Not that I don't dig the fuller EF86 sound, but I love my Ray with the bridge pickup on my Tele way to much. I'd imagine I'd love the Morgan a bit more with my LP's and some rhythmic delay. If I ever find an AC20 in my price range I may snag it. Probably wouldn't need a Dual.
Thanks fellas.
|
|
|
Post by cap217 on Mar 10, 2014 9:11:15 GMT -7
I have both amp and wish I didnt have to keep both but the reality is that they are different. At lower volumes the gap is smaller and they are close but when you get it past 3-4, you start to realize the differences.
The Ray is bigger and more 3d. Its punchy.
The RXES is more compressed. The low end isnt boomy like the Ray and you have more options to shape the tone. But the tone is more Marshall than anything. It is a lot more percussive and accurate than the Ray.
|
|
|
Post by telejas on Mar 10, 2014 11:14:04 GMT -7
I have both amp and wish I didnt have to keep both but the reality is that they are different. At lower volumes the gap is smaller and they are close but when you get it past 3-4, you start to realize the differences. The Ray is bigger and more 3d. Its punchy. The RXES is more compressed. The low end isnt boomy like the Ray and you have more options to shape the tone. But the tone is more Marshall than anything. It is a lot more percussive and accurate than the Ray. I've had both, and this really nails the description of the two. Just to add to this; When most people hear the word "Marhsall", they usually assume dark and mid-rangy (I know I do). But this doesn't describe the RxES. It's one of the brightest amps in the Z line, but can be tamed. I like bright amps and I still ran the treble around 2 on the dial. The more you crank it, the darker it gets too. The RxES can also be scooped if you roll down the mids. Over-all, it does have a stronger mid-range than the Ray though.
|
|
|
Post by Mark (Basement Enthusiast) on Mar 10, 2014 13:34:27 GMT -7
...There's a device, an amp switcher (I can't remember the name, someone here on the forum will remember) that allows you to plug two heads into one cabinet. You'll also need a switcher out front to choose the amp... Radial Headbone will do this, and you won't even need another extra switcher out front. Very cool, albeit expensive, product. (Weber makes a head switcher, too, although that one will require another switcher out front.) I now return you to your regularly-scheduled discussion thread...
|
|
|
Post by muzacman02 "Jamie" on Mar 13, 2014 12:48:18 GMT -7
I mISS MY RAY dearly, I read randall saying the ray had a "Scooped Midrange" I think it has a very nice mid tone sometimes too much, I found running the Ray with 2-original 12-65's and 2- golds in a 4x12 which for my situation a Classic Rock Gig it was Ala Marshall Heaven, I could clean up with the volume pot on my guitar, Have you tried running a slingshot with the Hi/Lo inputs? also the cut works backwards, meaning darker as it goes clockwise. The RxEs I would love to try one, I have heard they are GLORIOUS TONE MONSTERS, If TRacy Guns Uses they would have to be. I am another who wishes the doc would step into some Dual Pre/Power sections, I have and amp that has a 12AX7 pre and an EF 86 or can be blended its quite AMAZING!!!!!
|
|
drc
New Member
Posts: 37
|
Post by drc on Mar 16, 2014 9:23:57 GMT -7
I mISS MY RAY dearly, I read randall saying the ray had a "Scooped Midrange" I think it has a very nice mid tone sometimes too much, I found running the Ray with 2-original 12-65's and 2- golds in a 4x12 which for my situation a Classic Rock Gig it was Ala Marshall Heaven, I could clean up with the volume pot on my guitar, Have you tried running a slingshot with the Hi/Lo inputs? also the cut works backwards, meaning darker as it goes clockwise. The RxEs I would love to try one, I have heard they are GLORIOUS TONE MONSTERS, If TRacy Guns Uses they would have to be. I am another who wishes the doc would step into some Dual Pre/Power sections, I have and amp that has a 12AX7 pre and an EF 86 or can be blended its quite AMAZING!!!!! I think "scooped midrange" in context. Compared to my RxES? Yeah. The RxES is more versatile. The cleans are really good on that amp when you back off at the guitar. Even with out the overdose it has such a great clang. It also plays well with some of my hotter, moderate output humbuckers. But, the Stangray with a Tele is it's own thing, probably because of the "scooped" voicing. A Stangray and a Twin sound so good together it's crazy. I have done the Hi/Lo toggle thing you mentioned. Plugged into both jacks does something to the top end that I don't dig. I didn't use a slingshot I used an RJM unit. I did it with both amps. I also with the Dr. made an amp, like a Matchless, where you had independent inputs for two different preamps. The Matchless HC30 I played sounded much closer to my RxES with the top that will rip your head off. I don't thing the Normal Channel had the bounce of the Stangray though. The bottom on the Dr. Z amps don't feel as loose as the Matchless I tried nor did they have as "marshally" a mid range.I might have just been that amp too. I love the Z's I have but I really think I need to go lower wattage at some point and try to get the best of both from one amp.
|
|
|
Post by telejas on Mar 20, 2014 14:54:24 GMT -7
I see where people say the Ray is scooped, and it can be. I found if you turned the tone and cut anything above half way, it started scooping the amp. Anything below half, started bringing out the mids. The scooped tone of a Ray was sneaky, it's more of a low-mid that gets scooped and the upper mids blend in with all the chime. I also know the higher you run the tone and cut, the worse dirt pedals sounded... That was my mistake with my first Ray, but not with my last one (that I just traded off).
People say it's a "One trick pony", but it really isn't.
|
|
drc
New Member
Posts: 37
|
Post by drc on Apr 11, 2014 15:08:36 GMT -7
I see where people say the Ray is scooped, and it can be. I found if you turned the tone and cut anything above half way, it started scooping the amp. Anything below half, started bringing out the mids. The scooped tone of a Ray was sneaky, it's more of a low-mid that gets scooped and the upper mids blend in with all the chime. I also know the higher you run the tone and cut, the worse dirt pedals sounded... That was my mistake with my first Ray, but not with my last one (that I just traded off). People say it's a "One trick pony", but it really isn't. I see you sold your Stangray but kept your Hayseed 30. I played a '63 AC30 not too long ago and found it's more of what I was looking for from one amp vs. the Stang/RxES thing I have going now. Valvetech is about a four hour drive from Chicago. You think it's worth the trip to try one of these out? The Hayseed is pretty much the closest thing to the Dual 20 or a 65 London which were my next choices.
|
|
|
Post by cap217 on Apr 11, 2014 18:23:16 GMT -7
The rxes sounds so nice clean. You have to turn the tone and volume down on the guitar to capture the nice cleans. It gets too percussive and in your face but it sounds so good backed off. I played 3 clean amps I have last night for a while.... Rxes, dumble style handwired ods, and a 66 super reverb. The rxes was the cleanest and too reverb and delay way better than the rest. It had a depth to it that was amazing.
I never played a z28 but I have to think that it would give me the sound closer to a fender clean with bottom vs the rxes. I fight with the rxes but it is always so nice to have. I have a wreck coming again for the 3rd time and I feel like it forces me to list my rxes for sale but I don't want to.
|
|
|
Post by telejas on Apr 11, 2014 21:11:53 GMT -7
I see where people say the Ray is scooped, and it can be. I found if you turned the tone and cut anything above half way, it started scooping the amp. Anything below half, started bringing out the mids. The scooped tone of a Ray was sneaky, it's more of a low-mid that gets scooped and the upper mids blend in with all the chime. I also know the higher you run the tone and cut, the worse dirt pedals sounded... That was my mistake with my first Ray, but not with my last one (that I just traded off). People say it's a "One trick pony", but it really isn't. I see you sold your Stangray but kept your Hayseed 30. I played a '63 AC30 not too long ago and found it's more of what I was looking for from one amp vs. the Stang/RxES thing I have going now. Valvetech is about a four hour drive from Chicago. You think it's worth the trip to try one of these out? The Hayseed is pretty much the closest thing to the Dual 20 or a 65 London which were my next choices. I just can't seem to get rid of the Hayseed. I hate to say it, but it's been my favorite amp up until I got the Z-Wreck.... I've had it about 6 years and still love it. I just converted it to a head (well, it's in the works) so I can use the Z-Wreck cab or my Avatar 1x12. It's a pretty authentic AC30 voiced amp.
|
|
|
Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Apr 14, 2014 4:47:10 GMT -7
Dr. Z Amps was founded on a certain design philosophy...one that drew me to be a Dr. Z Amps guy in the first place. Two of the cornerstones of the philosophy are low cost and a short signal path. The fewer the components, the more the player feels connected to the playing experience. This also enhances tone. Pretty much the ultimate example of this is the Z-Wreck. It's true that there have been a few amps along the way that have featured channel switching (6545) or other luxury options (JAZ) but the mainstays of the lineup are the simple, to-the-point plug and play amps like the Ghia and Route 66. Also as the parts count goes up the cost and build complexity goes up. There have been a few prototypes made in the past that fused designs like the Stangray and Mazerati GT in the same head but those remain just that...unreleased prototypes.
|
|
drc
New Member
Posts: 37
|
Post by drc on Jul 4, 2014 13:57:29 GMT -7
I know this thread is a little old but seeing how I was looking at a Morgan and a Hayseed I figured I'd give an update. I was in Nashville last week and went to VK to try an AC20. It was a really great amp but got way too dirty too fast. Not even close to what I'm looking for to cover my Stangray's EF86 sound.
I just got back from the Ft. Wayne area to check out a Valvetech Hayseed 30. That amp is outstanding. The Top Boost, while not having the bottom end of my RxES, got very close. Sounded rich and beautiful. The EF86 side, well, it also got a bit too dirty too fast. I loved the mid range on it though. Not quite as scooped as my Ray, but also didn't keep it together unless I really rolled back the volume at the guitar. I had to stay on the Low input jack to keep it clean. It had a very similar bounce and snap to it, though.
And though I wasn't really looking for one, I did give a Matchless HC-30 a good run through in Nashville. A little edgier than a Z, but man did that amp have some chime to it. Not as tight in the low end though. It also didn't stay clean as long as the Ray.
So my quest for the perfect four input, dual preamp RxES meets Ray amp head continues.......
|
|