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Post by hartman601 on Dec 12, 2013 7:17:49 GMT -7
Been mostly a lurker on here for a good while.
I need a fairly clean, pedal friendly, amp for a new studio i'm building. I have a bunch of vox style amps already, so nothing in that vein. From what I have heard on recordings a dumble-style clean channel is primarily what I'm after. I initially looked at a Two-Rock studio, but someone suggested a Rt 66 may also cover a lot of the same territory. Haven't gotten a chance to try one, and doubt I will prior to buying. Thick cleans is the key here.
I can't seem to see anyone A/Bing these 2 amps. Anyone out there give me a good compare/contrast or describe the differences?
Other stuff i'm considering: fuchs, port city pearl, others? Front runners are the two rock and the rt 66 though.
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Post by Jaguarguy (Mike) on Dec 12, 2013 7:37:14 GMT -7
A KT45 may also fill the bill. It's been described as a kind of The Who, Live At Leeds sound. Gearmandude has a lot of clips of KT45 in his demonstrations, including a 10+ minute demo of the KT45 itself.
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Post by southmusic70 on Dec 12, 2013 8:03:41 GMT -7
I have a KT45, Route 66 and Z28 (plus a Mazerati v2). I think the KT and Route would work fine for your purposes, but you should also look at the 28; it's quite versatile.
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Post by hartman601 on Dec 12, 2013 9:01:11 GMT -7
The only thing that scared me away from the kt45 was the description as vox meets hiwatt. Given my solid coverage of voxy tones, i'm shying away from that. Plus all things being equal, I'd rather have something closer to 30 watts than closer to 50.
What kind of speakers in a convertible 1x12 for a thick clean sound? assuming c30 or similar and not alnico.
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Post by southmusic70 on Dec 12, 2013 9:50:39 GMT -7
I used my KT a couple of weeks ago for a big band job playing my Heritage archtop with a 2x12 cabinet (straight through, no effects). All of the Hiwatt and Vox stuff aside, I got it to sound an awful lot like a Twin Reverb, and it stays clean way up the knobs. The Route seems to start driving after about noon on volume, but has very fat clean tones.
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Post by digiTED aka 'Ted' on Dec 12, 2013 10:05:38 GMT -7
I had a Route 66 for a while and 'thick cleans' is something the Route 66 is fantastic at producing. In fact, I think it would be my first 'go-to' for that, even before a Mazerati v1.
If you're running out of headroom on the RT66 just pop in a 5AR4 rectifier (and a mild re-bias most likely). I ran mine more often with a 5U4GB for a saggier feel. The lower headroom was not an issue with the Tele at my volume needs.
I ran a Z 1x12 w/ Celestion Gold most of the time I had the RT66. If I had a RT66 now and didn't want Alnico, I'd look at a Scumback J75. It's warm and woody like a Greenback but with deeper, firmer lows as well as more high-end detail. It's something like cross between a Greenback and an H30 but with more power handling (mine is a 65w).
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Post by hartman601 on Dec 12, 2013 15:16:00 GMT -7
apart from headroom/wattage, what is the main difference in the RT and the KT? Or is it just that?
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Post by southmusic70 on Dec 12, 2013 15:58:16 GMT -7
To my ears they are completely different animals. If you ever play a Route, no matter what guitar you are running into it, your first thought will be about the thickness of the tone. For a large part it's not a bass and treble kind of thing, but a real thickness of the tone that comes out (and I run mine through a C90 which is, more or less, a neutral speaker). It will fatten up single coil pickups and make the sound rounder since it is mid-focused; it's excellent with humbuckers for punchy jazz and blues. The KT is about clean power and has more high end on tap. The Route starts giving the drive up once you get not too far past noon on the volume control, whereas the KT stays clean a lot further up the knob (like the proverbial "11"), and this is one reason it's a terrific clean platform for pedals. I run mine through a pair of Vin30s, and I can't really imagine the need for more power.
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Post by prspastor on Dec 12, 2013 22:03:28 GMT -7
Hi Hartman, Welcome to Z-Talk. I might be able to be of help to you in this case, as I have owned a Route 66 and a Two Rock Jet Signature at the same time and of course compared them. My thoughts: 1) The thick cleans are 99% identical between the Two Rock and the Route 66. I could not tell one bit of difference. My settings on the Route were volume 9 o'clock, treble at 11 o'clock, and bass at 1 o'clock. 2) The Two Rock was more "fiddly" in order to get that Dumble/Mayer clean that you are after. The Route 66 is not quite as fiddly to get that tone. 3) The Route 66 breakup is not a Dumble style breakup, so you will have to use a pedal for the Route 66 to get that smooth overdrive. That being said, the Two Rock had to be incredibly loud to get a Dumble breakup - thus I never used the Two Rock for overdrive either. Too loud. 4) The build quality between Dr. Z and the Two Rock were identical too. Both are superbly well-made amps. Here is my current setup: Route 66 with Z-Verb through a Z 1x10 cab and a Jensen Jet speaker. I use an Fulltone Fulldrive Mosfet with boost on for a Dumble overdrive sound -or- I also use an Ethos pedal with the Route 66 from time to time. Both get similar smooth overdrive tones when you fiddle with them. IMO, I think that the Route 66 and KT-45 are very different. I tried them side by side at Willcutt's in Lexington. KT is brighter, tight and clear. Route is more thicker in the mids and upper mids. One other thing - I've found that the "Dumble" sound has a lot to do with the way you touch the strings with your left hand and your pick attack. Those are my experiences in searching for that warm clean to slightly overdriven smooth tone.
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Post by j4gitr (John) on Dec 12, 2013 22:04:15 GMT -7
I love my RT66 for its thick clean tones. Really 3-Dimensional is a way I like to think of it. I posted this clip in the audio forum. Recorded in my home studio not an a/b comparison as you originally posted, but if it helps give you an idea great. Sorry if this is redundant. soundcloud.com/johnstoesser/not-enough-love-goin-around
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Post by prspastor on Dec 13, 2013 7:32:01 GMT -7
One other random thought - I think to get that clean that you want, you want a big bottle tube like a KT 66 or 6L6. While I love 6V6's, they don't have the power for headroom to get you there. To me, that leaves the Z-28 out too. You need a big, clean, amp with big power tubes. That would leave you with an Dr. Z EZG-50 or a Route 66 that has a 5AR4 rectifier in it. I'm hoping to get in the studio today. I'll lay down a track for you.
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Post by hartman601 on Dec 13, 2013 7:50:56 GMT -7
perfect all, thanks so much. Yeah for the dumble style it's more about the cleans for me, not the overdriven sound. Rt66 it is. I play a bit of funk and R+B as well, so j4, that track was very helpful.
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Post by dixiechicken on Dec 14, 2013 3:17:13 GMT -7
DC here!
I have a Route66 but no other Z-amps. One thing for me is the projection in the soundscape with the Route.
It projects very well the soundscape is big and for me it feels as I always knows where I'm standing in the mix with my setup, I feel in conrol and can decide where I want to be.
Cheers: Dixiechicken
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Post by prspastor on Dec 14, 2013 13:58:50 GMT -7
Here is that track I promised. Not much to listen to as it was a quick one off. But you certainly get the idea of what a Fender Strat in the neck position sounds like through a Route 66. At 1:15, I add a little overdrive. Hope this helps you make your amp purchase a little easier. soundcloud.com/john-hatton-2/route66-dumble-wav/s-eilk5
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Post by prspastor on Dec 31, 2013 7:33:11 GMT -7
perfect all, thanks so much. Yeah for the dumble style it's more about the cleans for me, not the overdriven sound. Rt66 it is. I play a bit of funk and R+B as well, so j4, that track was very helpful. Have you purchased your Route yet? Love to hear your feedback.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2014 23:22:07 GMT -7
Thick cleans is the key here. The Route can cover thick cleans quite well. It just depends on the volumes you'll be playing at. If you get to peg the dials the notes get hairy and thick. It's a great amp.
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Post by southmusic70 on Jan 2, 2014 8:30:01 GMT -7
I played a big band job at a relatively large venue last week with Gibson CS336/Mogami gold cable/Route 66/2x12 cab w/ Vin30s; guitar volume 5, tone 6, amp volume noon, treble 10 o'clock, bass 10 o'clock. I know some guys here don't like the Vin30 with a 66, but for this it was very good as this kind of playing demands punchy mids. I even had two of the sax players give the rig compliments.
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