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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jun 17, 2007 10:16:32 GMT -7
If you don't have Beam Blockers on your cab, you are missing one of the greatest tools available for your live sound. I'm serious! For under $20, there isn't anything out there that has the effect these do on your live sound. Notice I didn't say "tone" because they don't change your tone. But they make it so you can hear your cab from many more positions on stage (you no longer have to stand directly in front of your amp to hear it) while simultaneously killing that harsh beam of treble that is shaving the hairs of the heads of your customers in the front row. You can tell it's working when you notice those customers are no longer bleeding from the eyesockets, yet you're playing just as loud! My first experience with Beam Blockers wasn't with the Weber product, but with some built in blockers on my THD 4x12 cab. I was pretty amazed at the effect. Although I like that cab, it's a beast to haul out, so I bought some Weber Beam Blockers for one of my THD 2x12 cabs. The transformation was immediate, and I was an instant convert to the product. Unfortunately, those speakers have extremely thin gaskets, and I blew a speaker as a result of the frame being warped. Nuts. So I like to mount the blockers on the front of the baffle - that way they can't affect the speaker frame, and you don't have to bother them to change out a speaker (something I do from time to time). But when I started getting into the Z amps, I ended up with this Dr. Z 2x12 open back cab with the Alnico Blues, and I didnt' want to mess it up by tearing it apart to install the Beam Blockers. It sounded great anyway, so I didn't think much about it. When I bought the two Alnico Golds, I put them in my THD 2x12 cab that didn't already have the Beam Blockers, and I have been using it that way for a while. But this week, I finally got around to installing a pair of Weber Beam Blockers I had bought nine months ago or more. I'm here to tell you - oh my! Once again, I am so impressed with the difference on stage! Last time we played, I used the exact same setup - two Z heads, each into its own Alnico Gold in this 2x12 cab. All I heard the last time we played was "the guitar's so loud!" This time (last night) I didn't hear a peep from anyone about my volume, which was a surprise because I was running everything considerably hotter. I had the Stingray running through the Airbrake and was only down two clicks. The RXES was running through my Hot Plate, and was sitting at -8db (last time I ran it at -12). And for solos I was kicking the combine switch and playing both amps! Still no one complained! It sounded so good, and the key was that I could hear my amps as much as I wanted, yet no one was being assaulted by the sound of my guitar. I can't recommend them enough. Make sure your speaker gasket is at least 2/3 thicker than the strap if you install them under your speaker, otherwise mount them on the front of the baffle. But go get them - they are worth their weight in gold.
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Post by zgrip on Jun 17, 2007 20:22:16 GMT -7
Thanks for the informative write up benttop. I've been considering giving these a try. It's interesting how you note the perceived volume reduction when it's essentially the same. Do you find the highs are softened by absorption with the blockers or is it really the treble getting dispersed better? I've read there can be a reduction of the swirley airy thing with beam blockers. Do you notice this effect?
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jun 17, 2007 21:32:26 GMT -7
Thanks for the informative write up benttop. I've been considering giving these a try. It's interesting how you note the perceived volume reduction when it's essentially the same. Do you find the highs are softened by absorption with the blockers or is it really the treble getting dispersed better? I've read there can be a reduction of the swirley airy thing with beam blockers. Do you notice this effect? The highs are still there, but better distributed across the playing space, so that you can hear them, but they are not painful. And I think they ADD to the airy thing, not subtract from it. But everyone hears something different. I know of folks who have tried Beam Blockers and didn't like them. I think they are mad, but everyone is entitled to be mad if they so choose. Just joking, but I think the majority of folks that try them like them. That said, the Beam Blockers I just installed I bought from someone who decided against installing them. So who knows? Anyway, I think they are great, and I think everyone should at least try them - not much to lose, a lot to gain.
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Post by ruger9 on Jun 18, 2007 3:56:19 GMT -7
I've been singing the praises of the Beam Blockers for awhile now...
Great product. The help especially with bright speakers, or speakers that haven't been broken in yet, but still help with the "dispersal" on well-broken in speakers as well.
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Post by Buzz Fretwear (Ignatius) on Jun 18, 2007 6:29:06 GMT -7
I might try mine again, but count me amongst the "mad" who didn't like them ;>)
My experience with a BB in my 1x12 Mazerati is hard to put into words. While it's true that it seemed to disperse the sound, it also seemed to soften the "immediacy" of the amp. Sort of like there was a thin blanket across the front of the amp. It was a workable result for some stuff, but for more aggressive tones there just seemed to be something missing. I tried mine with an Eminence Tonker and a Weber Blue Dog and got the same result with both.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jun 18, 2007 9:43:45 GMT -7
I might try mine again, but count me amongst the "mad" who didn't like them ;>) My experience with a BB in my 1x12 Mazerati is hard to put into words. While it's true that it seemed to disperse the sound, it also seemed to soften the "immediacy" of the amp. Sort of like there was a thin blanket across the front of the amp. It was a workable result for some stuff, but for more aggressive tones there just seemed to be something missing. I tried mine with an Eminence Tonker and a Weber Blue Dog and got the same result with both. Like I said, everyone hears something different. The difference could be amp placement, tone settings, or just different ears. Now don't go away mad.... ;D
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Post by billyguitar on Jun 18, 2007 14:43:41 GMT -7
I'm a believer! They seem to make the sound come out in more of a hemispherical way instead of the more direct cone of tone shape.
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Post by kc on Jun 19, 2007 13:01:13 GMT -7
benttop,
Is your amp miced or not? If not, what effect do the BB's have on the sound out front and throughout the room? I understand that the high frequencies are better dispersed where you are standing and those directly in front of the amp aren't "assaulted" by the highs, but is your guitar heard as well (as without BB's) throughout the rest of the venue?
kc
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jun 19, 2007 13:47:21 GMT -7
benttop, Is your amp miced or not? If not, what effect do the BB's have on the sound out front and throughout the room? I understand that the high frequencies are better dispersed where you are standing and those directly in front of the amp aren't "assaulted" by the highs, but is your guitar heard as well (as without BB's) throughout the rest of the venue? kc Lately I'm only playing in situations where I'm mic'd. But when I first discovered Beam Blocking technology (is it really technology?) I had bought a THD 4x12 cab that has them built in. I was using that in my blues band and it was way enough even without micing the cab. But that cab is too heavy to use everywhere, so I bought my first two Weber Beam Blockers and installed them on my THD 2x12 cab. I used that live with the Blues band for two years, no mics, and nobody ever said they couldn't hear the guitar. When we did the festivals and other outdoor stuff, I did use a mic, but all the indoor venues were just vocals and bass drum in the PA, and the guitar was monstrous. Of course I was pushing my Flexi-50 nearly to wide open - it was pretty loud. The Beam Blockers really made that possible because if I had been playing that loud without them, the folks up front would have been in real trouble. I know one place in particular where they had us on the floor, with tables right up to the stage area, so folks were sitting directly in front of my amp, trying to eat and drink and listen to the music. They were literally across the table from me, with my amp flapping my pant legs right behind me. They never even winced.
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Post by billyguitar on Jun 19, 2007 17:06:09 GMT -7
And when the set was over did they thank you in sign language?
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jun 19, 2007 17:20:00 GMT -7
And when the set was over did they thank you in sign language? Huh?
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Post by hipfan on Jun 20, 2007 8:33:33 GMT -7
And when the set was over did they thank you in sign language? Huh? I believe he's implying that you were playing to a deaf couple. ;D
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Post by billyguitar on Jun 20, 2007 10:58:04 GMT -7
Bad joke and I hope no one was offended but I'm almost there myself! Too many years of rimshots, crash cymbals and my own wailing guitar!! It's getting harder all the time to carry on a conversation with soft spoken people in a noisy restaurant. An old friend of mine used to play dances at the local school for the deaf. He said they liked the band to turn the bass up loud so they could feel the beat. he said the gigs were fun and of course every one was real nice but it was odd that when they'd end a song all they would hear was feet shuffling and glasses clinking.
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Post by ruger9 on Jun 20, 2007 15:56:33 GMT -7
HUH?!?? WHAT DID YOU SAY?!?! SPEAK UP SONNY, I CAN'T HEAR YA'!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by billyguitar on Jun 21, 2007 10:58:56 GMT -7
Sure is hot out!
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Post by bluesdawg on Jul 8, 2007 15:05:05 GMT -7
Well , put me down as one of the "mad". I tried the beam blocker in my MAZ SR w/C Gold and from the first power chord I noticed a definate loss of brilliance in the tone. Everyone does hear something different. One persons "brite" is another's "brilliant" or "sparkle". I personally did not like the beam blocker at all. Played for 15 minutes before they went in, walked the room. Did the install played for 20-30 minutes while walking the room. I could almost perceive a decrease in volume as well. While yes, they did disperse the highs evenly, to my ears the speaker lost some if it's magic. I removed the beam blocker and placed it back in it's box and to the top of my closet where it sits. I tried to like it but the minus outweighed the plus. I guess show me as one of the crazy's. I'm with ignatius on this one....
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Post by eliot1025 on Jul 9, 2007 2:22:13 GMT -7
Hey Bluesdawg, I don't think you're "mad" at all. I read that Beam Blockers were designed to remedy a problem. If you don't have a problem with highs, there's a fair chance they might not help your sound. They're for speakers that are especially beamy, harsh, or brittle sounding and are most helpful at louder levels. Often they're used with JBL, Altec, and EVM12L speakers. If I got this right, the highs come mostly from the dome in the center and they're more directional than the other frequency ranges; they shoot straight out like a beam instead of a wide, spray-type of dispersion. The BB turns the beam into a spray so listeners in line with the front of the cabinet don't get all the harshness - the brittleness is more evenly dispersed. A possible side benefit is that they might allow others on stage who are off to the side of your cab to hear you better. A speaker (like a celestion blue or gold, or an alnico tonetubby among many others) that's not brittle to begin with, probably would benefit less (if at all) from BBs. (To me, those speakers have a sweet or chimey or smooth high end, not an aggressive or punchy high end. That's just my take, not a fact.) BB's might even hurt the desired effect of many speakers, depending on what effect you want.
For me, they improved my EVM12Ls. I wouldn't use them on everything, though.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jul 9, 2007 5:49:22 GMT -7
I use them on everything, and love what they do. But this is a great big world, with a lot of different folks doing a lot of different things. It is not utterly inconceivable that someone could be doing something different from me. When I added the beam blockers to my main gig rig, I was able to crank my attenuators up a notch and the bass player didn't complain once - yet without them, and turned down, he complained constantly. In my situation, they are a godsend...
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Post by Michael Bartee on Jul 9, 2007 15:56:25 GMT -7
I put a Beam Blocker in my Ghia 1x12 combo (V30) and it made a huge difference. The V30 had that ice pick in the eye effect before and now it is much nicer. The highs are still there, they just don't bite youe head off when you get directly in front of the amp. I am very pleased with the results.
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Post by kledbet on Jul 9, 2007 20:43:51 GMT -7
Lots of opinions and views about this topic. I have just recently put them into my Z 2x10 cab and like the result. I also have them in a Z 1x12 cab with a Weber 1230-55. I do agree it spreads the sound out and smooths out the response, and might take away just a little highs. I find if I bump up the treble knob about 1 notch I'm fine. I buddy of mine listened to one of my THD cabs both before and after the BB's and he was quite impressed with them. If you like your speaker as it is and the highs aren't a problem then you may not need them.
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Post by billyguitar on Jul 10, 2007 8:22:52 GMT -7
Bottom line is they're cheap enough to try and if you don't like them, no big deal. I like them a lot but they're not a must have, just another tweak.
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Post by kledbet on Jul 10, 2007 10:12:26 GMT -7
Last year I sat in the front row at Yoshi's to hear Robben Ford. I was right in front of his cab. I wish he had beam blockers because my ears hurt for at least a day. Great playing, but I was in the path of the "treble storm".
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Post by Michael Bartee on Jul 14, 2007 17:37:23 GMT -7
I have been putting the beam blocker through the paces with the Ghia/V30 combo and love what it does to spread the highs out and eliminate the bite straight in front of the speaker. I have encountered one problem that I can't seem to work around. With the Ghia volume at 3:00, tone @ 1:00 and using a humbucker when the guitar volume is rolled back to around 3-4 and I play a palm muted low "E" the beam blocker rattles like crazy. I have a couple and even trimed one down so the mounting bar didn't extend past the speaker gasket thinking it might be rattling against the speakers frame. Has anyone else ran into this? Any ideas?
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jul 15, 2007 8:14:58 GMT -7
I have been putting the beam blocker through the paces with the Ghia/V30 combo and love what it does to spread the highs out and eliminate the bite straight in front of the speaker. I have encountered one problem that I can't seem to work around. With the Ghia volume at 3:00, tone @ 1:00 and using a humbucker when the guitar volume is rolled back to around 3-4 and I play a palm muted low "E" the beam blocker rattles like crazy. I have a couple and even trimed one down so the mounting bar didn't extend past the speaker gasket thinking it might be rattling against the speakers frame. Has anyone else ran into this? Any ideas? You might want to post this question to Ted Weber either on his web page or in the Ask the Experts section here. It seems to me there are two possibilities - one is the rivet that holds the center piece on is loose, the other is the surround is actually extending enough to touch the strap. The first could be fixed easily, but the second could be a big problem.
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Post by billyguitar on Jul 15, 2007 20:01:40 GMT -7
I hope the speaker surround isn't touching the bracket when the cone comes forward.
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Post by Michael Bartee on Jul 16, 2007 13:28:43 GMT -7
I think that might be the case. The blocker seems to be solid with no apparent rattle between the beam and the disc. I checked and the cone is secure to the disc and does not extend beyond the disc to touch the strap. I think the speaker surround is either slapping the strap or the blow back of air off the center diffuser of the beam blocker is causing the speaker cone to move in a way that is causing the coil to rub. Pull the blocker out and no problem, put it in, play a palm mute low "E" and it makes a rattling sound that is similar to a voice coil rubbing.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jul 16, 2007 14:11:39 GMT -7
I think that might be the case. The blocker seems to be solid with no apparent rattle between the beam and the disc. I checked and the cone is secure to the disc and does not extend beyond the disc to touch the strap. I think the speaker surround is either slapping the strap or the blow back of air off the center diffuser of the beam blocker is causing the speaker cone to move in a way that is causing the coil to rub. Pull the blocker out and no problem, put it in, play a palm mute low "E" and it makes a rattling sound that is similar to a voice coil rubbing. If that's really what's happening, the only solution is to get more distance between the strap and your surround. In my case, I achieved that by mounting the Beam Blocker on the front of the baffle board using a couple of short wood screws. Not every cab is compatible with that approach, so I don't know if you can try it or not. Also it sure doesn't work if your speakers are front mounted. But it's one idea anyway.
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Post by Michael Bartee on Jul 16, 2007 15:12:54 GMT -7
Its a Ghia 1x12 combo. I don't want to remove the grill cloth to do a front mount. I wonder if there is a gasket of some sort that I could put between the speaker and baffle board to increase the depth a little? I suppose I could make one from 1/4" Lauan but Rubber or speaker gasket material would be better. I might shoot Ted a message to see if a speaker gasket could be had to experiment with.
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messenger
Full Member
life is good!
Posts: 194
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Post by messenger on Jul 18, 2007 13:56:02 GMT -7
I LOVE EM! so far i havn't encountered any problems. i would recomend not tightning down your speakers to tight though,......just finger tight will do it.
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Post by Michael Bartee on Jul 18, 2007 16:22:57 GMT -7
Maybe some of you Ghia owners, especially with V30's could try this and report back. Crank the volume to 3:00, Tone at 1:00, guitar with humbucker in bridge position, roll your guitar volume back till it almost cleans up and play a palm mute blues shuffle type rythm on the low "E" position and see if you get any rattle. It only does it at high volume, and appears to only happen in the low "E" position. I am going to place a second speaker gasket between the mounting strap and the speaker (thanks to Mr. Ted Weber) to see if it is the surround smacking the strap. I will let everyone know how that turns out. The Blocker is great and I really want to use it, I just have to work through this little hurtle.
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