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Cold Feet
Jul 13, 2013 11:58:44 GMT -7
via mobile
Post by crxsh on Jul 13, 2013 11:58:44 GMT -7
I was set to sell my Maz 8 on Sunday and then buy an M12.... but after reading some of the content here, I'm a bit concerned about all the comparisons to a Princeton Reverb.
Thing is, I had a PRRI for awhile and liked it at home... but HATED it live. Sounded thin and weak and the Fender midrange dip wasn't appealing at all in a band setting.
But that had a 10" speaker and the M12 I'm looking at is a 12" model... so talk me off of (or over) the ledge here.
In theory, the M12 sounds like a great idea and a wonderfully simple solution for pedal-dependent players like me... but I don't want to make the wrong move or one I'll end up regretting later down the line.
Also, as a side note, if I go ahead with this, the M12 seller is fine letting it go with a WGS Green Beret or selling it empty. If I ditch his speaker, what are the best alternative options? (FYI: I have an Weber Alnico Blue Dog in my Maz that I quite like.)
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Post by Maddog on Jul 13, 2013 12:03:52 GMT -7
You need to play an M12.... Do you live near a Z-talk buddy with one? I'm in San Antonio....I'm sure any of us would love to let you crank up our M12....
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Post by dcam34 on Jul 13, 2013 12:13:58 GMT -7
Do what I do... don't crank 1x10. Crank a 4x10. It's a beautiful thing
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Post by doctorice on Jul 13, 2013 12:40:27 GMT -7
Is there something the MAZ isn't giving you that you think the M 12 might?
Never had a Princeton, so I can't compare. M12 front end is very different from MAZ. Fits in the Z-28/Rte 66/KT-45 family on that aspect.
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Cold Feet
Jul 13, 2013 16:50:56 GMT -7
via mobile
Post by crxsh on Jul 13, 2013 16:50:56 GMT -7
Is there something the MAZ isn't giving you that you think the M 12 might? Never had a Princeton, so I can't compare. M12 front end is very different from MAZ. Fits in the Z-28/Rte 66/KT-45 family on that aspect. I like my Maz 8 Studio Combo from a size and weight standpoint ... and it sounds good too, but I never crank it and don't use the reverb (use pedals for both). And, more than that, I've increasingly missed the simplicity of my old Z28 of late. So, being a longstanding pedalboard guy, the M12 seems like it might work... but I've gotta buy w/out playing. Nobody close to central Infiana with one (that I'm aware of) and the closest dealer is a 5-6 hour trip.
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Post by Jefferson on Jul 13, 2013 17:14:39 GMT -7
I was one of the first guys to pick up an M12. I use lots of pedals for both modern worship and classic rock/blues so the idea of a clean pedal platform was very appealing to me. Also, 12 watts felt like the perfect power rating for me. Now, after about a year of owning the M12, two other guitar player friends from my church are also M12 owners based on the tones coming from my rig. One of those guys sold a top hat and the other sold a Vox to get their M12.
There is NOTHING thin or weak about the M12. The "feel" is similar to the feel of the Wreck and even without pedals this amp just kills! I have used it with a Blue, Gold and a creamback and each of these speakers sound terrific with it. I currently use a gold in one cab and a creamback in another.
You will not be disappointed with the M12!
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Post by Abandoned on Jul 13, 2013 20:33:35 GMT -7
Here my take on your situation... I've compared a Maz to M12 (as you already know) and I much prefer the sound of the M12. Smoother and better cleans, fatter sounding bass if you want it. But it also has no problem being bold when you want it to. Just turn up that treble. I don't think you should consider with much weight the comments about it sounding like Princeton Reverb. Maybe the M12 has some reminiscent qualities of that amp (sorry - never played one) but I can definitely tell you that the M12 does not sound thin and weak. But I know what you mean by certain Fender amps sounding this way. The M12 can sound very meaty if you want it to. That's part of the beauty of how the front end of the M12 is... no matter what volume setting you're at you can make it juicy with those EQ knobs. It can sound polite and sweet... or bold and roudy. The M12 definitely does not lack midrange to an unhealthy or unbalanced degree. If it did, it would not be the "perfect pedal-platform" amp. If there was an unhealthy lack of midrange, many OD pedals would suffer tonally with this amp. And I've been through tons of OD pedals with this amp, and midrange has never been a problem. Concerning speaker choice... I've played an M12 1x12 combo with a Blue and a GreenBack version. And I own an M12 with a Z-Best. To be honest I may not be much help here... but I really like all of the options I've tried. 1.) Where do you play primarily? I think that is a very important factor. 2.) Do you mostly play clean or overdriven? 3.) Do you like your tone polite or more rude? These 3 things help me decide speaker choice. If you can answer these I can help you with speaker options. FWIW: It doesn't matter to me which one you have, I'm not trying to convince you towards one or the other. It sounds like either would work great. But even with that... simplicity would win out for me IF all other things were equal. And I'll conclude with this... the M12 sounds crazy good mic'd up, huge. It sounded bigger than my Maz mic'd up. There are some great YouTube demos of the M12 as well. I'm sure you've already seen them though but there semi-good reference points.
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Jul 13, 2013 21:35:56 GMT -7
What jrudder and abandonded said.
If you get an M12 you will not be disappointed in it LIVE or the way it can cut through...
M12 is the biggest sounding, bold cleanish with hair sound at 12 watts I've ever heard... it has a biggish very full sound and tone like a bigger bottle amp yet it is only a 2 el84 and 12 watts... very lively.
I really like the single blue with it, maybe rivaled only the Ghia with a single blue... also like the Gold, but I think the blue is perfect. other speakers would get you into different various tones if that's what you needed and the Z best (or 4x10) sounds huge.
Maz 8 is a great amp... and the Maz jr is my #1 main go to amp for years... but what you said you described as wanting and missing the simplicity of the z-28...
You would like the M12.
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Post by Abandoned on Jul 13, 2013 21:44:55 GMT -7
JeffersonI have a similar experience. The other guitarist I play with really likes the tone I'm getting from my M12 rig and is currently selling his amp to get an M12.
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Post by Maddog on Jul 14, 2013 4:28:28 GMT -7
Somebody above described he M12 saying it sounded like a Z-Wreck. This is very, very true. I don't think I could pass a blindfold test between these two amps until they are roaring at very loud street gig levels. Only then does the M12 start to break up, where the Wreck can still hold it together.
A Princeton CANNOT compete with the M12 in volume or boldness. Played quietly, the Princeton does share the same wholesome tone coloration, but craps out at my band's gig levels. I had a '68 blackline Princeton Reverb, and I wish I'd never sold it, but I could not gig consistently with it. I can play at least 90% (maybe more) of my gigs with the M12...Granted, I play my M12 thru a 1x12 Gold,
The M12 is an amp I too bought blind/deaf, and never hesitated. Probably one of the best amps I've ever owned. Many of the Z dealers offer money back guarantees. You'd only be out the shipping if you didn't like it....
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Post by Abandoned on Jul 14, 2013 5:34:16 GMT -7
I also went in blind buying my M12. And I don't regret it. I only based my decision off of forum info and youtube demos. GMD's demo sold me. Since then, more good demos have come out.
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Cold Feet
Jul 14, 2013 6:50:15 GMT -7
via mobile
Post by crxsh on Jul 14, 2013 6:50:15 GMT -7
Thanks all. Great feedback.
Assuming I can wrap up a deal on my Maz today, I should be an M12 owner within the week.
Have my eyes on the blackout version. So sexy.
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Post by Abandoned on Jul 14, 2013 6:58:59 GMT -7
Thanks all. Great feedback. Assuming I can wrap up a deal on my Maz today, I should be an M12 owner within the week. Have my eyes on the blackout version... The blackout version is sweet. Glad you made a choice. I hope your happy with it.
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Post by crxsh on Jul 14, 2013 16:47:25 GMT -7
On the way this week!
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Post by Abandoned on Jul 14, 2013 18:12:49 GMT -7
crxshNice! Looks great. It'll sound even better. Please let us know how you like it! And if you like it better than your Maz 8. Do you mind me asking how much you got it for used? And was it with or without speaker? And if with speaker... which one?
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Cold Feet
Jul 14, 2013 18:51:09 GMT -7
via mobile
Post by crxsh on Jul 14, 2013 18:51:09 GMT -7
crxshNice! Looks great. It'll sound even better. Please let us know how you like it! And if you like it better than your Maz 8. Do you mind me asking how much you got it for used? And was it with or without speaker? And if with speaker... which one? PM'd you with the details.
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Post by Maddog on Jul 14, 2013 19:14:32 GMT -7
On the way this week! DIG!!!!!!!!
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Post by Jefferson on Jul 14, 2013 20:16:56 GMT -7
What speaker?
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Post by crxsh on Jul 14, 2013 20:44:41 GMT -7
Coming w/ the stock greenback. I'll see what I think and, if it doesn't cut it, will consult the variety of speaker threads in this section.
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Jul 14, 2013 23:03:57 GMT -7
Nice looking amp...
Just a side note, but the M12 seems to reveal a lot about the speaker as much as it does the pedals... so it is very sensitive in a good way to speakers...
The greenback should be very very nice... I also think If you liked your Alnico Weber Blue dog with the maz amp, you'd also really like it with the M12, and the blue dog is a bit different than the C blue, but as always the Blue is amazing as is the Gold...
I really also like the Weber Silver bell even over the Blue dogs ymmv... I love the Weber Greywolf and the Alnico Tone Tubby is up there with the Gold IMHO except it is more neutral...
the Tonker is loud. Maddog could play 100% of his gigs with an M12 and a Tonker. I would think any of the warehouse speakers would sound great and give you a variety of tones to choose from, I have not heard a bad one...
If you need more volume, the Greenback and Blue dog and silver bell seem to be a little less efficient... so you may need to try a Blue/ gold / or other more efficient speaker... an emi private jack would be a good efficient loud green back style alternative, warehouse may have a more efficient greenback also...A V-30 would be louder and have way more mids, and the G12 H30 would be a bit louder too...
I have not heard a bad speaker with this amp... you will just have to find one that does what you want to make the amp do.
You do owe it to yourself to try a broken in Blue (or gold).
great amp.
Jason
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Post by Abandoned on Jul 15, 2013 5:57:54 GMT -7
Nice looking amp... Just a side note, but the M12 seems to reveal a lot about the speaker as much as it does the pedals... I agree. And the important thing to realize about the M12 is this: that what OD pedals that worked for you with a different amp, may not work well or sound as good to you with the M12. This happened to me big time when I switched from my Maz to the M12. You could definitely hear that the Maz had influence on the OD overdrive where the M12 seems to just sound like the pedal more. And the reason why is cuz the M12 seems to be completely honest. I thought I used to like stacking of pedals but after I got the M12 I haven't stacked since I got it. Stacking OD pedals has mostly resulted in a more anemic tone than I'd prefer. And I've been through tons. if I want higher gain tones through my M12 I run one low-medium OD and boost it a lot. Or just run one higher gain OD... I don't stack anymore.
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Post by Jefferson on Jul 15, 2013 7:13:46 GMT -7
^^^^^^^^didnt love stacked OD's, but an OD stacked with a clean boost is amazing.
As for speakers, I loved the blue but it just didn't have enough low end. Went to the gold and it solved the low end problem, but it is loud! Tried one of the new cream backs and found it to be very similar to a gold, but much quieter. Use it 75% of the time now. Just a bit more detail.
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Post by Abandoned on Jul 15, 2013 9:13:03 GMT -7
^^^^^^^^didnt love stacked OD's, but an OD stacked with a clean boost is amazing. Yes exactly.
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Post by Abandoned on Jul 15, 2013 9:14:03 GMT -7
^^^^^^^^didnt love stacked OD's, but an OD stacked with a clean boost is amazing. Yes exactly.
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Post by crxsh on Jul 15, 2013 11:46:58 GMT -7
Nice looking amp... Just a side note, but the M12 seems to reveal a lot about the speaker as much as it does the pedals... so it is very sensitive in a good way to speakers... The greenback should be very very nice... I also think If you liked your Alnico Weber Blue dog with the maz amp, you'd also really like it with the M12, and the blue dog is a bit different than the C blue, but as always the Blue is amazing as is the Gold... I really also like the Weber Silver bell even over the Blue dogs ymmv... I love the Weber Greywolf and the Alnico Tone Tubby is up there with the Gold IMHO except it is more neutral... the Tonker is loud. Maddog could play 100% of his gigs with an M12 and a Tonker. I would think any of the warehouse speakers would sound great and give you a variety of tones to choose from, I have not heard a bad one... If you need more volume, the Greenback and Blue dog and silver bell seem to be a little less efficient... so you may need to try a Blue/ gold / or other more efficient speaker... an emi private jack would be a good efficient loud green back style alternative, warehouse may have a more efficient greenback also...A V-30 would be louder and have way more mids, and the G12 H30 would be a bit louder too... I have not heard a bad speaker with this amp... you will just have to find one that does what you want to make the amp do. You do owe it to yourself to try a broken in Blue (or gold). great amp. Jason I actually chose the Blue Dog specifically for the lower efficiency rating. Again... stage volume is huge for me, so anything I can do to bring that down [and still maintain a good tone] is always good. I was sorta thinking of checking out a Scumnico if the Greenback doesn't do it for me, though, I'm an Indiana guy and I did like the Blue Dog, so maybe a Silver Bell wouldn't be a bad idea either!
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Post by jesslm02 on Jul 16, 2013 13:08:22 GMT -7
I really like Weber's speakers. WGS is great too, but I prefer the Webers. Don't worry about the tone being thin or "not big enough." I played a 1x10 M12 and we always mic'd up. No issues with the tone. I made the mistake of letting it go and now I regret it! I miss that tone and the portability of the small combo. Here is one example:
I'm in the middle, playing the 1x10 M12 Combo with a Weber Silver Ten.
I know I have more that really showcase the amp but I don't guess I uploaded them. Anyways, the other guitarist is using a Maz Jr 2x10 combo I believe.
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Jul 16, 2013 15:59:09 GMT -7
Yea I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the greenback, I love it but farts out on me at higher volumes w / higher wattage amps and that shouldn't be a problem with the M12 for you, and if you're ok with both it and the Blue Dog being less efficient... if you liked the Blue Dog before, you should really appreciate it with the M12.
Love Weber's.
Also I know you need a 12", but since the little 10" combo was mentioned...
I REALLY loved the 1x10 combo with the red Fang Lonny brought for us to play as much as any of the other speakers... GREAT little cab.
He also brought a Creamback for us to try and I forgot to mention in my first post, he uses it with the remedy and I was impressed with it with the bigger amps, and was also good with the M12... but I think the regular 25 watt greenback is fine for the M12.
Let us know what you think after you get it and try it...
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Post by jesslm02 on Jul 17, 2013 7:57:15 GMT -7
Don't forget, Weber has a version of the greenback under the british series speakers. Also, the Legacy series was once the scumback brand.
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Post by crxsh on Jul 17, 2013 10:50:20 GMT -7
Well.... scratch that.
In a strange turn of events, I just received a refund notice from the seller. He sent me tracking yesterday, but the number never pulled anything up and when I called FedEx about it today, they had no record of it.
The note in the refund said that the amp was dropped off @ FedEx, but never scanned. Was also dropped and damaged somehow, so I the deal is off.
Now I have to wait until next week to get my money back to buy something else.
grrrr....
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Post by Abandoned on Jul 17, 2013 11:04:32 GMT -7
Well.... scratch that. In a strange turn of events, I just received a refund notice from the seller. He sent me tracking yesterday, but the number never pulled anything up and when I called FedEx about it today, they had no record of it. The note in the refund said that the amp was dropped off @ FedEx, but never scanned. Was also dropped and damaged somehow, so the deal is off. Now I have to wait until next week to get my money back to buy something else. grrrr.... Oh man! Serious bummer. Sorry to hear that man. When you say "...buy something else..." does that mean you are not buying an M12 anymore?
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