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Post by brickwalljackson on May 9, 2013 19:36:38 GMT -7
Hey Fellers,
Do any of y'all know of a tone stack mod that would bring my M12 closer to my Stangray in terms of the top end? I set my Ray up to have a ton of jangle and spank on the top, and the M12 is not quite there yet.
Thanks!
Johnny
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Post by brickwalljackson on May 10, 2013 9:05:28 GMT -7
Hey Fellers,
Okay, I think I've hit on what I'm missing. Here's a quote from the Humbucker Music FAQ on the M12:
"Well, the M12 is indeed like a half power Stang Ray, but it's more forgiving. Don't get me wrong, though. It still has plenty of dynamic and punch, but not as much as the Ray. I have to agree with Z on this one... It's got very similar headroom and clarity like a Stang Ray, but slightly smoother and more forgiving like a Z Wreck."
Okay, it's that smoothness that I am fighting with. I LOVE my Stang Rays because they are NOT smooth. The extra attack and punch is what I need. Basically, it looks like I need to increase the voltage in the output section to start. I'm willing to experiment here, and I've built amps before so I think I can handle this but I want to get some other opinions from the forum experts.
If it's a matter of changing out a couple of resistors, I'm good to go. I know I'll void my warranty but I don't really care. Unless I can get the tone I want. . .which in this case is the Stang Ray sound. . .I'm not going to be able to use this and I'm back to searching for a half power Ray.
As always, thanks for your help, Fellers!
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Post by doctorice on May 10, 2013 9:49:49 GMT -7
Have you considered a treble boost pedal? It might be too blunt an instrument to zero in on what you want to achieve, but it may be a good to try before you mod the amp. I was thinking of something like the Keeley Java Boost.
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Post by brickwalljackson on May 10, 2013 10:18:38 GMT -7
Have you considered a treble boost pedal? It might be too blunt an instrument to zero in on what you want to achieve, but it may be a good to try before you mod the amp. I was thinking of something like the Keeley Java Boost. I have indeed! The only problem is I think it might be too much. I've used those before, and they are very cool but for the tone I am going for, I pretty much need to reproduce what the Ray does. Stang Rays are just a wonderful blend of clarity, grit, bite, snap and punch. I've never played an amp with that much touch sensitivity. . .and I've tried vintage Vox, Fender and Marshall. The Ray has it all. I understand the goal of the M12 is to provide a stable platform for pedals. I can see this working very well, but I've never played a pedal that sounded as good as an amp that colors the tone just right. That's the Stang Ray! I sent a note to Dr Z about what I'm trying to do. I'll either mod it myself or send it to them to mod. I'm 100% positive that I can get what I need out of this amp. . .just might take a little bit of tweaking. I'm not worried about resale or warranty issues, I'll keep my Z's forever.
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Post by rickc007 on May 10, 2013 10:28:40 GMT -7
I have a Stangray and an M12
I find them quite a bit different and that's why I have both Not sure you could make the M12 sound like a Stangray, The M12 has much more mids, and Smooth on top as you said
I never considered the M12 a half powered Stangray at all, although in theory ...
On the other hand, I had an Rx Jr, and could dial that in REALLY close to a half power Stangray
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Post by brickwalljackson on May 10, 2013 10:35:31 GMT -7
I have a Stangray and an M12 I find them quite a bit different and that's why I have both Not sure you could make the M12 sound like a Stangray, The M12 has much more mids, and Smooth on top as you said I never considered the M12 a half powered Stangray at all, although in theory ... On the other hand, I had an Rx Jr, and could dial that in REALLY close to a half power Stangray Ah, okay. Hmmm. . .well that gives me an alternative if I need to take it. I think that smoothness is what I want to eliminate. I like the extra grit and "noise" in the Ray. I've based my tone around that. I love the way it colors the sound. I'm pretty sure I could make this thing work for me. Just need to find the right values to put in the output section, etc.
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Post by Maddog on May 10, 2013 11:09:42 GMT -7
I agree with Doctorice here. I run a clean boost with my M12 and it is punchy on the top end. Sounds much tamer w/o it. Also speaker choice is really important here. I run a G12H30 with mine and it has nice headroom with plenty of aggression if you add the clean boost.
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Post by brickwalljackson on May 10, 2013 11:58:10 GMT -7
I agree with Doctorice here. I run a clean boost with my M12 and it is punchy on the top end. Sounds much tamer w/o it. Also speaker choice is really important here. I run a G12H30 with mine and it has nice headroom with plenty of aggression if you add the clean boost. I've got a Celestion Blue in mine. I might need to try a different clean boost. With my Ray, I use an EP Booster by Xotic. Sounds awesome. When I use it with the M12, not so much. In fact, gets really fuzzy and farty. I do have a Seymour Duncan Pickup Booster that I might try to see how it works. I have to play with the tone controls as well, because I just read today that they are full up at noon, unlike other amps. I used to have a Micro Amp that was a pretty good clean booster and I might check that one out as well.
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Post by brickwalljackson on May 10, 2013 12:10:18 GMT -7
Hey Fellers,
What about swapping the 5Y3 out for a GZ34?
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Post by DRZ on May 10, 2013 14:34:21 GMT -7
Plug it in and try, it will work no biasing needed. Will take away some of the sag of the 5Y3 tighten up the bottom and give the M12 more punch.
DR.Z
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Post by brickwalljackson on May 10, 2013 14:52:46 GMT -7
Just did!! WOW!!!!! Holy crap this thing sounds awesome. That did it for sure!! Now I have my low power Stangray!! Thanks a million, Dr!!
Here again, I will NEVER play anything but a Dr Z. You just can't go wrong.
Again, thanks for the help!
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Post by Eddie on May 10, 2013 15:15:43 GMT -7
"Solderless" mods are always best to try first. :-) Glad the swapped recto worked out for you!
Rock on, Eddie
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Post by brickwalljackson on May 10, 2013 15:23:00 GMT -7
"Solderless" mods are always best to try first. :-) Glad the swapped recto worked out for you! Rock on, Eddie Thanks brother! Yeah, it was the extra sag I was fighting with. It sounds very chimey with my Gretsches now. That bump in voltage was the ticket!
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Post by rickc007 on May 10, 2013 15:38:45 GMT -7
Interesting ....
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Post by Jefferson on May 10, 2013 20:16:49 GMT -7
Hmmm? I may have to try a GZ34 just for grins...
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Post by brickwalljackson on May 10, 2013 21:03:18 GMT -7
Hmmm? I may have to try a GZ34 just for grins... Depending on what you are looking for, you might like it!
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Post by jcat5503 on Sept 25, 2013 11:26:11 GMT -7
Is there any way you can do a comparison video? I would LOVE that!
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2013 8:49:28 GMT -7
I'm thinking an M12 might be in my future. Half power Ray? Oh, yeah, baby!
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Post by skinvoyager on Oct 11, 2013 11:10:14 GMT -7
I gave the GZ34 tube a shot. Sounds good, maybe a bit more open. But I have to admit, I'm not hearing a HUGE difference. Anyone else?
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Post by crxsh on Nov 5, 2013 17:54:46 GMT -7
What kind of GZ34's are you guys using?
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Post by jesslm02 on Nov 6, 2013 6:20:20 GMT -7
Sovtek would be a good one. If they make a gz34 or 5ar4. I know they make a 5y3.
Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Proboards
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2013 7:21:05 GMT -7
I was actually thinking that a stiffer rectifier tube might help but I had no idea they were interchangeable. Now I know! Love this place.
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Post by crxsh on Nov 6, 2013 11:12:04 GMT -7
Sovtek would be a good one. If they make a gz34 or 5ar4. I know they make a 5y3. Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Proboards Cool. Just bought the cheapest one I could find on eBay.
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Post by bluzman on Nov 6, 2013 22:10:57 GMT -7
You may as well try a 5V4 and even a 5U4 and report back!
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Post by jesslm02 on Nov 6, 2013 23:00:03 GMT -7
I like the 5v4 actually. That's generally what I run. It's a nice mix between stock and the 5ar4 (gz34).
Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Proboards
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Post by Jefferson on Nov 8, 2013 8:50:48 GMT -7
finally tried the GZ34 in the M12. I like it! never played a stangray, but it does seem to be a little tighter and a little punchier.
has had no adverse effect on how my pedals sound either. gonna run with it for a while and see...
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Post by jesslm02 on Nov 8, 2013 9:30:59 GMT -7
I had a spare Sovtek 5AR4 in my tube stash. Stuck in a few a days ago and it is nice. Still distinctly M12, but adds a little extra. I will have to gig it a few times and see how it turns out. It does seem to bring out some vox-like qualities. I'm curious as to what the wattage will be now. I know the voltage has been raised on the tubes with 5AR4.
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Post by crxsh on Nov 8, 2013 13:38:12 GMT -7
I got my Sovtek GZ34 today and it sound nice w/ that for sure. I also swapped a 5751 in for the 12AX7 to bring the gain down a bit sounds nice.
Anybody know what the stock tubes are for the M12? Pretty sure I'm the 3rd owner of this one and it came with a mix of stuff... so I'm curious about what it started with.
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Post by doctorice on Nov 8, 2013 15:40:04 GMT -7
Anybody know what the stock tubes are for the M12? Pretty sure I'm the 3rd owner of this one and it came with a mix of stuff... so I'm curious about what it started with. According to the Z web site, as of 3/2012: M12: V1: NOS Winged C EF86, V2: Tung Sol 12AX7, V3/4: Matched pair Electro Harmonix EL84, V5: JJ 5Y3
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Post by crxsh on Nov 8, 2013 20:49:21 GMT -7
Ah, ok... cool. Looks like the previous owner swapped in a JJ EF86 and a pair of Mullard EL84's. But I got the stock tubes, too. Need to try out the other EF86.
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