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Post by jworkman on Apr 1, 2013 5:23:13 GMT -7
Howdy all, I'm usually a lurker on forums such as these. After reading a bit I decided to jump in, you all seem like a great bunch. I'm not real sure where to post this so I'll start here granted that the M12 is the amp I'm most leaning towards at the moment. I guess you can say I'm at the point where I'm trying to decide what's going to suite me. The amp will be mainly a recording amp, whether it ever gets played in a band situation I'd have to say is highly questionable. In the foreseeable future I imagine the amp serving as a home amp, used for recording solo albums ranging from mellow tones right up to moderately high gain (Black Sabbath inspired I guess?). Up until recently I was largely considering an amp based on the capability of dirty sounds. I've been around and around for the last year shopping for amplifiers. I've considered Orange, I've considered Suhr Badger, as well as numerous plexi style amps, you know just chasing fat dirty tones. Then it occurred to me that perhaps I'm approaching things wrong. Maybe I should be chasing a great clean tone that will use pedals really well, instead of achieving one great sound, leave the potential open to find many great sounds. All that being said I believe that the M12 has a whole lot of potential. But I'm actually pretty open minded at this point to amp suggestions. All in all I feel pretty confident that Dr. Z is the way I want to go. I like the simplicity of the amps, and seemingly no matter how you EQ them you don't find a bad sound. I consider that to be a pretty admirable attribute. One thing I am curious about is how well the M12 and other lower wattage Z's do with the Z-Best 2x12 cabinet. I think the concept behind the Z-Best is brilliant and in my mind there's not going to be any compromise for me, I will own that cab. I feel that how well the amps do with that particular cabinet could influence what I buy. I would love to hear opinions from people who play amps like the M12, Maz 8/18, etc. through the Z Best. Thanks guys, appreciate any responses
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Post by Jefferson on Apr 1, 2013 8:04:46 GMT -7
cant give you any thoughts on the Zbest and M12 although i suspect it would be a stellar combination. i can tell you that i believe that your approach may be the best one. so many of the albums that many of us here grew up on were recorded on clean amps with pedals in front. it finally occurred to me that i would never be able to dime an amp, even a maz jr, to get natural amp gain sounds that i wanted because only a few of us are lucky enough to play venues where that much volume is appropriate.
so i went to an M12 after 4 jr's and i have been truly amazed at the wide range of tones that platform is able to handle. smooth jazz tones up to AC/DC and even into modern hard rock territory. all with pedals and all without ever really having to change the settings on my amp. AND, i might add, at volume levels that make everyone happy!
good luck in your search...
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Post by Jefferson on Apr 1, 2013 8:05:36 GMT -7
oh, and welcome to the forum!
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Post by jworkman on Apr 1, 2013 9:26:09 GMT -7
Thanks jrudder, yeah that's pretty much how I was visualizing it, the experience you describe is definitely encouraging. I'm in a pretty rural area myself, but still I doubt what few neighbors I have would appreciate a cranked tube amp as much as I do lol...
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Post by Abandoned on Apr 2, 2013 20:49:18 GMT -7
I own the M12 Head and Z-Best cab so I guess I'm your best man to talk to For me - the M12 and the Z-Best cab are the perfect combination. The tones the M12 produces are amazing... From clean to verge of break up, and the way up to heavy overdrive I absolutely am completely satisfied and happy with everything it produces. And it doesn't matter if I'm playing my Strat or Hamer. The M12 head and Z-Best cab produces breathable cleans that can be bouncy or solid and overdrive that is thick and focused. You can't have these 2 worlds perfected with the combo versions of the M12. Trust me I've tried. This head and cab combination is the way to go. And I play everything you're looking to play. I go from squeaky clean, to smooth & warm - bluesy Strat break up, to vintage rock, classic rock all the way to hard rock and I feel I have perfect tone for all of those with this amp and just a few overdrive/boost pedals. The combo can sound a bit like a small low wattage amp, which this is... but with the Z-Best cab this amp doesn't ever sound like a small-low wattage amp. I would only have one concern for you... Which is home studio use. This amp is loud - but can be tamed if need be with the LO input switch. Also - the Bass and Treble knobs helps you achieve some sustain and overdrive with lower volume knob settings. Please feel free to ask any more specific questions you may have.
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Post by jworkman on Apr 3, 2013 0:07:51 GMT -7
I own the M12 Head and Z-Best cab so I guess I'm your best man to talk to For me - the M12 and the Z-Best cab are the perfect combination. The tones the M12 produces are amazing... From clean to verge of break up, and the way up to heavy overdrive I absolutely am completely satisfied and happy with everything it produces. And it doesn't matter if I'm playing my Strat or Hamer. The M12 head and Z-Best cab produces breathable cleans that can be bouncy or solid and overdrive that is thick and focused. You can't have these 2 worlds perfected with the combo versions of the M12. Trust me I've tried. This head and cab combination is the way to go. And I play everything you're looking to play. I go from squeaky clean, to smooth & warm - bluesy Strat break up, to vintage rock, classic rock all the way to hard rock and I feel I have perfect tone for all of those with this amp and just a few overdrive/boost pedals. The combo can sound a bit like a small low wattage amp, which this is... but with the Z-Best cab this amp doesn't ever sound like a small-low wattage amp. I would only have one concern for you... Which is home studio use. This amp is loud - but can be tamed if need be with the LO input switch. Also - the Bass and Treble knobs helps you achieve some sustain and overdrive with lower volume knob settings. Please feel free to ask any more specific questions you may have. Thanks for the reply Abandoned, that sounds awesome. The way you describe it really does sound perfect. Quite exciting actually heheh... It sounds like your approach is very much the same as what mine would be. The volume levels are a bit of a concern I would agree, I had been thinking about that but also decided that I wouldn't let that detail hinder my decisions much either. About everything I've ever read and heard in regards to Z amps is that they're all very loud. Though on that note I also feel that it's less of an issue as time goes on with the quality attenuators available now. Throw in an Airbrake, Unleash, or the likes and perhaps it would be manageable to get up to that sweet spot where it's almost into break up at least at a semi-comfortable decibel level. Which in the end, I think may be a nice investment no matter the amp I would end up with But yeah, very valuable feedback, thanks a lot!
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Post by Albert on Apr 3, 2013 7:11:03 GMT -7
Don't shun the 1x10 combo with a Gold ..i use it with the band and I Mic it. .I am able to crank up the volume and it really cooks and is still not overly loud in the mix .very portable for me also.
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Post by Abandoned on Apr 3, 2013 18:38:58 GMT -7
Mic'd up the combos all sound great. It's just not mic'd - just the amp itself can sound small from farther away.
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Post by jworkman on Apr 3, 2013 23:45:14 GMT -7
I have no doubt the Gold sounds good. Nice alnico speaker, though I've not seen any 1x10 combos being sold with Golds. Just seeing Dr Z customs, or Red Fangs.
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Post by mazmaster on Apr 4, 2013 13:54:56 GMT -7
I have an M12 1x12 combo and also a headshell which I ran into many cabs, from the Forte 3D112 to many 2x12s on up to a Germino pinstripe 4x12 with Scumback PVCs. Guess what? I am back to the stock 1x12 combo on some 2x4s with rubber feet as the BIGGEST sound for this amp. Sitting right next to all my cabs, it does the best job of absolutely filling the room with sound. I own many great amps, including d-styles, but this has been my go-to since last June. Use it as a clean platform with pedals in a very loud band. Amazing amp!
I went through a dozen or so speakers with the M12 and found the WGS Blackhawk Alnico HP to be the best for my needs, by a good margin. As always, experimentation is a good thing!
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Post by mazmaster on Apr 4, 2013 14:06:17 GMT -7
But, I should also mention that if you're not going to play live much and are mainly just recording, the cab isn't going to be as big a factor. And, you may be better off with ONE speaker vs. multiple so that you can get as much energy as possible into the speaker with the mic on it. All speaks sound better (up to a point) when they're driven harder, so dividing power among multiple speakers will be counterproductive in the studio.
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Post by mazmaster on Apr 4, 2013 14:22:18 GMT -7
Geez, I keep forgetting stuff. I have owned a Z-Best, myself, with a Route 66. Amazing cab, for sure. But, I found that it needs to be played loudly to get the goods and can actually sound smaller than 1x12 combos when the amp is not turned up to a certain point. But, yes, once you do get it cranked a little, it's massive! It is also meant to be enjoyed at a distance - it's a "long-throw" cab - perfect for unmic'ed gigs, but maybe not for the studio. It also comes stock with dissimilar speakers whose sonic qualities were meant to be combined at a distance, so which speaker would you mic? You'd have to mic both to get the best the cab has to offer and, as mentioned above, you'd probably have to crank the amp louder than may be practical in your studio.
Just tossin' out some thoughts....
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Post by jworkman on Apr 4, 2013 21:44:20 GMT -7
Man how I wish I could just go and take a whole day to take all these options for a test drive. Closest Z dealer for me is a couple or three hours away You make some very good points Mazmaster, and perhaps for my needs I've been a bit hasty with my GAS for that cab. Thanks, really appreciate the different points of view
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Post by Abandoned on Apr 5, 2013 6:19:23 GMT -7
The trip is so worth it. Especially since you are that close to one. 2-3 hours ain't bad.
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adlib
New Member
Posts: 5
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Post by adlib on Apr 5, 2013 7:34:33 GMT -7
I have the M12 1x12. It's the best sounding amp I've ever owned. I have a 1964 Fender Pro, a Marshall 1923 combo (DSL w/ great speakers) and a Twin Reverb reissue.
The M12 is quite loud for 12 watts I'd say, the clean tone is amazing, the dirt is great and this amp has ATTACK when loud. I've never played another amp with this much attack.
It takes the few pedals I've tried, really, really well. Tube Screamer is what I use for dirt.
The amp sounds very good at what I'd consider a fairly low volume, and the lo-gain input doesn't seem to lack anything that the higher-gain input has. Turning up the bass and treble above 1/2 starts giving serious break up and that seems so cool to me.
I prefer combos because they're one piece and I'd rather work hard for a minute than work easy for two.
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Post by mazmaster on Apr 5, 2013 23:24:39 GMT -7
I think the advice to head out for for a test drive is good. I never had that option and had to spend some bucks to discover what works for me. There is no "bad" advice here, just different perspectives and points of view. All Z options are amazing. They're all just different flavors of great.
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Post by jworkman on Apr 6, 2013 1:55:58 GMT -7
Absolutely my take on it as well, mazmaster. Everyones feedback here has been great. Getting a lot from this thread as well as others. Very interesting looking at things from different angles. Furthermore, I foresee a trip to Lexington in the near future
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Post by mazmaster on Apr 6, 2013 17:54:33 GMT -7
Absolutely my take on it as well, mazmaster. Everyones feedback here has been great. Getting a lot from this thread as well as others. Very interesting looking at things from different angles. Furthermore, I foresee a trip to Lexington in the near future JW, This is one of the friendliest and most informative and supportive forums on the Internet. I'm sure you've witnessed that as a "lurker", but it bears repeating. Have fun on that Z Trip! I took one tonight myself. But, I am fortunate enough to not have to leave home to do it. Dave
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