|
Post by mustachio on Dec 18, 2012 15:17:07 GMT -7
So, I bought the M12 and finally had a chance to play it today because my avatarspeakers vintage 2X10" (gold & green) finally arrived this morning. And boy, was I sad. The M12 is a great amp when you initially plug in. I found the controls easy to dial in, but the volume past noon totally altered the gain characteristics of my Klon and EP-PRE. So, it was hard to get more volume. I just wish it could've cranked up to 3 o'clock clean. Very gritty (almost fuzzy) past 12 o'clock, especially with a Les Paul (and P-90's in my SG).
That said, one caveat: The M12 sounded awesome with my Nash Tele.
But, what sealed the deal and made me return the head was when I A/B'd it against the Maz 18 NR head. The Maz has more low end and less grit and therefore more suitable for pedals and all types of guitars.
Volume wise, the M12 is comparable, but it's clipping point is not. Also, I found the Maz let's all your pickups and pedals "breathe". You need headroom to "breathe" and the M12 sounds good before the noon position, but it isn't loud enough.
I wanted to love the M12, especially reading about its tone stack and all it's cousins that share the same circuitry, but I love the Maz 18, always have. I guess I just needed some "strange". The Maz is my "old ball-n-chain".
|
|
|
Post by markT on Dec 18, 2012 17:16:50 GMT -7
Get a Z28! ;D
|
|
|
Post by rickc007 on Dec 18, 2012 20:41:02 GMT -7
sumptin sounds odd , I was just playin the same amps, I just got the M12 too
Were you in "Hi" mode, and were the Bass and Treble past noon.
With the Bass and Treble at noon or below, I can practically dime mine and not get any grit or distortion. I was just thinking how smooth it was It does compress, the bass starts to soften
I put the following distortion pedals through it with no issue, Wampler Soverign Fullton OCD, Boss DS1 ... some even stacked with a Plexi Drive, and Ecstacy drive.
I was flipping through several amps, including a Maz 18NR and a Stangray with a Lehle 1@3 switch. Thought the M12 was a bit smoother than the others, smoothens out the distortion, The Maz 18NR REALLY good with pedals, the Stangray kind of explodes with distortion, high energy sounding
Didn't think the M12 was that loud either, can almost dime it without and attenutor in low mode in my house Almost. And I like the taper on the volume, it's not too loud as soon as you touch it
Kind of diggin it, like the mids on it, and it has a bit of sparkle, nice highs
|
|
|
Post by mustachio on Dec 18, 2012 21:15:09 GMT -7
Yeah. Like I said, it's not the amp necessarily. I just thought that the Maz was better. I had the treble at about 1 o'clock and the bass at noon. Maybe the treble added some grit. I tried both high and low. Low was actually my favorite, but in the end, the maz edged it out. My Les Paul was kind of dark, so I think I need more tweakable amp. I'm so damn picky.
|
|
|
Post by Abandoned on Dec 18, 2012 21:39:23 GMT -7
This is a strange report - with my M12 and Les Paul type guitar I don't get any breakup before 3:00 on the volume dial with bass @ 2:00 and treble @ 11:00.
|
|
|
Post by savage8190 on Dec 18, 2012 21:59:37 GMT -7
In the end your ears are your judge, but I too think there was something up with that M12. Mine doesn't really get much distortion unless you really crank up the Treble/Bass.
|
|
|
Post by mustachio on Dec 18, 2012 22:05:55 GMT -7
Hmmmm....you see that's why these boutique amp builders will always sell amps: no where to try them out first and put them through their paces. So, another amp, site unseen and now, I have to pay the restock fee.
|
|
|
Post by Abandoned on Dec 18, 2012 22:15:08 GMT -7
In the end your ears are your judge, but I too think there was something up with that M12. Mine doesn't really get much distortion unless you really crank up the Treble/Bass. Yes, agreed.
|
|
|
Post by DRZ on Dec 19, 2012 1:54:17 GMT -7
Hmmmm....you see that's why these boutique amp builders will always sell amps: no where to try them out first and put them through their paces. So, another amp, site unseen and now, I have to pay the restock fee. Like you state " I'm so damn pickey ". Odds are you won't be satisfied by an amp that you haven't tested/played first. But you will go on a forum and complain about "these amp builders", and restocking charges. Be happy you can return an amp that wasn't to your standard. Think of the restocking fee as the cost of a test drive in the privecy of you own home, saving a trip to the music store, and allowing you to test it with all your gear. I know my dealers try hard to qualify a product to a player. They want the sale to stick. But it doesn't always happen, and they can't ship amps all around the country for players to demo them then return for free. DR.Z
|
|
|
Post by markT on Dec 19, 2012 5:25:25 GMT -7
Hmmmm....you see that's why these boutique amp builders will always sell amps: no where to try them out first and put them through their paces. So, another amp, site unseen and now, I have to pay the restock fee. There are plenty of places to try Z amps out. You may have to travel a little. That will cost you... Like Z said, the restocking fee is, to me, the price I pay for trying an amp out. If I think I might be happy with another model, the restock fee is way less than the hit I'd take if I tried to see the amp. I've been through several Z amp models and all have been great, but some fit my needs better than others. Guess that's why he makes more than just one amp. Good luck on your quest.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2012 6:53:04 GMT -7
Have you adjusted the settings on your pedals? I read about a lot of guys who have 'their settings' that they have used for a long time and get frustrated with a new rig. Everything has changed, you may need to go to square one with your pedals too if you are searching for a good sound out of your new amp.
|
|
|
Post by kevinshiflett on Dec 19, 2012 7:45:02 GMT -7
Interesting, My M12 will be here today and I was a lil worried it would be to clean with my Tele. I like to run a dirty/clean country sound for my base tone. Sooo, crank tone knobs past noon for breakup. Got it.
As far as restocking fees. Before I ordered the M12 I had ordered a Ghia from Humbucker Music. The Ghia was to loud for what I needed it for so I returned it. I don't recall there being a restocking fee at Humbucker. Granted It was out of the box for less than an HR and went back with all the packing it came with.
|
|
|
Post by mustachio on Dec 19, 2012 8:40:53 GMT -7
I'm not trying to be libelous, Doc. I was a little quick to be dismissive toward "boutique" builders. I love your amps. I own two. I tried the M12 and although I liked it, and it IS a great amp. For me, your Maz 18 NR is it. I just wish there was a place to try out your amps, is all. But, the funny thing is, now I want the Maz 8 combo. You see, Doc? I'm an investor! kevinshiflett My Tele sounded incredible through the M12, I wouldn't worry.
|
|
|
Post by Abandoned on Dec 19, 2012 10:23:52 GMT -7
I understand the restock fee - as someone who is returning a product, yeah it's a bummer but I understand from the dealer's point of view AND Dr. Z's points makes perfect sense as well.
The only thing I did not understand was with Humbucker Music - the restock fee was only required if you returned a item... not required if you exchanged an item. I am not complaining cuz I turned out a very happy customer. I am just curious from a logistical point of view.
|
|
|
Post by Maddog on Dec 19, 2012 11:43:20 GMT -7
I own a small business like Doc Z and Humbucker Music. I TOTALLY "get it." Each time they sell an amp, there's time ($) involved (order taking, packaging, shipping, re-ordering what you just sold, ect). To take an amp back costs money. They have to re-do all these things. I think Humbucker's waiver of the fee if you exchange is quite generous, because it just cost them money to restock regardless whether you exchanged or only returned an amp. Then there's the light bill, the insurance bill, payroll, matching yer employees taxes, cost of raw materials, plant / facilities payment and upkeep, and on, and on, and on...... It ain't easy these days....
and Back to the OP, my M12 will get about any sound I want......BUT you gotta tweak the controls! Pull the tone controls back before you get to noon with the volume control. With humbuckers this is even more important.....Use a G12H30 for more head room, or a greenback for crunch..... Mine is a WONDERFUL amp.... I think you need to tweak it more. My M12 is right up there with my Maz 18.....
|
|
|
Post by pintail78 on Dec 28, 2012 19:31:46 GMT -7
One more point about the maz, I found it to have too many knobs more versatile yes but too many for me. The EF-86 front end amps M12, Route 66, Z-28, and KT-45 have 3 knobs that take no guessing, just dial them in. That keeps me in these amps, I dont want to be always adjusting things, especially live.
Another thing, there is plenty of info on the Z forums about the amps. If your not sure about what you want, buy a used one and if you dont like it sell it and grab a different one, and not lose too much. Thats my take.
|
|
swiveltung
Full Member
tracking number 770638390642
Posts: 219
|
Post by swiveltung on Jan 6, 2013 10:45:24 GMT -7
I thought the M12 bass and treble were "dimed" when at 12 oclock? Anything past that is reportedly adding gain...? Which jives with the OP's comments....
|
|
|
Post by mazmaster on Feb 11, 2013 22:24:38 GMT -7
You dialed the amp incorrectly for the tones you were after, plain and simple. You never mentioned where you had the tone controls. They add distortion past noon and will even start to reduce clean headroom past about 10:30, which is equivalent to noon on most amps. In fact, ALL tonestacks increase preamp gain as they are turned up, so they are all critical when it comes to dialing in headroom. With the M12 tone knobs at about 10:30 and gain switch on LO (which, to my ears, is a perfectly balanced clean tone), I *LIVE* with the Volume past noon and get very smooth OD tones and nice, balanced cleans until the Volume is almost dimed, at which point, you get a little pleasant breakup and compression. Most gigs, it ends up around 2:00-3:00. Lastly, I own both amps (shown below) and can dial them in to sound so close to each other that I'd bet you couldn't tell which was which unless you saw where the cable was plugged! The knobs do end up in totally different places so you definitely have to dial with your ears and not your eyes. And, the Maz obviously has more headroom and a greater range of tones. But, to end up with your assessment and the actual return of the amp for the reasons stated tells me you must have been way off on the knobs...or maybe even had a bad tube.
|
|