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Post by kiki90291 on Sept 7, 2012 10:37:04 GMT -7
I'm a bedroom player making the transition into playing with other musicians. Unfortunately, playing with the band is revealing the limitations of my current rig - Tech 21 Liverpool into a Power Engine 60. It sounds fine at home, but it really doesn't seem very present in the mix with the other players (kind of muddy and piercing at the same time, if that makes any sense) - I've spent some time with the other guitarist playing with the eq and mix, but we can't really get it to fit in with what we're playing.
So I'm thinking about going back to a tube amp. I had given up on them because I could never get them to sound good at the volumes I need to play at at home - volume is less of an issue now that I actually need to keep up with a drummer, but I'd still like something I can play at home that will translate to the rehearsal room.
So, by long way of introduction, I'm looking at the M12 and the Mesa TA-15. I have a Mesa open back cab with a V30 in it that I'd like to use (minimize the spend) and I was wondering if anyone has played the M12 through a V30 and what they thought. Also, has anyone compare the M12 to the TA-15?
Unfortunately, the only Dr. Z dealer in town (and state) doesn't have a M12 in stock and they told me they probably won't have one in until their next fiscal year, so I can't try one out in person, but the simplicity of the amp (vs. all the bells and whistles of the TA-15) seems really appealing. Also, after my experience with the Liverpool, I'm getting less and less enamored with the "Vox" tone (sounds great at home, doesn't seem as versatile in the band setting, despite our set list full of jangly pop songs!).
Background info - I play mostly rhythm on a Ric 620, Telecaster and Casino. We are playing mostly jangly/new wave stuff from the 80's and 90's - think Gin Blossoms, XTC, World Party, Cure.
Thoughts? Advice to a newbie guitarist (who happens to be really old :-) ) Does the M12 sound right for me? If it does, should I stick with the Mesa cab or suck it up and buy a new cab or more appropriate speaker? I sure like how the M12 sounds on the demos I've heard and I do like playing with pedals.
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Post by Maddog on Sept 7, 2012 12:04:35 GMT -7
I use my M12 in a loud band setting if we're playing indoors. Outdoors, I take a little more powerful Z....
For you (since you prefer fewer knobs) I would suggest a Carmen Ghia. Plenty of juice, and few knobs. The Maz 18 would be great too, but you have to jack with more knobs.
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Post by Jefferson on Sept 7, 2012 12:04:42 GMT -7
I dont have any experience with the mesa, but the M12 can get into that jangly pop area. however, and this is a big however, i dont think it can get there unless you are using an alnico speaker like a blue. the speaker is so much of that chimey vox thing that you are going to be running against the wind with that V30.
In terms of your overall problem, i would also tell you that before i would go the mesa route i would check out Morgan amps AC20 or DAG15. Both killer vox style amps that do really well in low volume settings and play great with a band. this is in addition to lee's thoughts about the Maz 18 and CG which are also terrific.
my rig now consists of an M12 through a Port City cab with a greenback and the Morgan DAG15 through a port city cab with a blue. get the chimey pop thing from the morgan and both fender like and marshall like tones from the M12/greenie, depending on which pedals i use to help get me there.
hope this helps a bit.
JR
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Post by Maddog on Sept 7, 2012 12:05:13 GMT -7
PS: Welcome to the forum! Hope you like it!
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Post by kiki90291 on Sept 7, 2012 12:34:20 GMT -7
Thanks all - that's a ton of very helpful information.
I was worried about the V30 not really having the capacity for jangle - I also need to get into Fender/Blackface territory, though - will a Blue go there?
The local dealer has Maz 18's and CG's in stock, so I will go and give them a listen. I'm not that concerned about the knobs on the Maz 18 - the problem with the Mesa is more about 2 channels, with three power settings and 2-3 modes on each channel - option anxiety time! My biggest fear with the Maz and the CG is that they are too loud and will be no fun to play at home volumes.
The Morgan's are very interesting, too, but I'm concerned that I need something else to get something other than the Vox tone (that's why the Mesa is appealing - both in one box, but then you have the switches and knobs issue :-) )
Thanks again everyone - this is really helping me!
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Post by kiki90291 on Sept 7, 2012 12:35:40 GMT -7
PS: Welcome to the forum! Hope you like it! Thanks! I'm really digging this so far, although it may wind up costing me a ton of cash . . . too many great amps, not enough time. :-)
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Post by Maddog on Sept 7, 2012 13:31:31 GMT -7
Yes Brother Kiki....we indeed feel it's our duty to help unburden you of your spare cash....(and then some)...
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Post by Jefferson on Sept 7, 2012 15:46:05 GMT -7
In your shoes, i think i would look long and hard at a Maz 18 NR
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Post by kiki90291 on Sept 7, 2012 16:09:06 GMT -7
In your shoes, i think i would look long and hard at a Maz 18 NR I'll definitely be checking one out - unfortunately, though I can't compare it side by side to the M12 (frustrating). Is there a big volume difference between the Maz and the M12?
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Post by Maddog on Sept 7, 2012 16:29:17 GMT -7
Where do you live?.....There's a lot of us who own M12's that would be happy to let you visit and "crank 'em up"....If you're anywhere near San Antone, I'd gladly welcome you to play mine....
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Post by kiki90291 on Sept 7, 2012 16:33:45 GMT -7
Thanks for the generous offer - I'm in Portland, OR, so, sadly, I can't make it to Texas. Anyone in the Portland area? Beers on me . . . :-)
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Post by Jefferson on Sept 7, 2012 22:54:56 GMT -7
Yes, there is a pretty large difference in volume between the M12 and the Maz.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2012 3:19:26 GMT -7
Maz jr is loud but you could tame it with a Brake Lite.
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Post by jesslm02 on Sept 8, 2012 8:57:46 GMT -7
I own a Maz Jr and the M12. I have also owned the ghia. The maz is the loudest of the three. Followed by the ghia and then of course, the M12. If you want versatility, the maz is the way to go. If you want simplicity but great tone, then that would either be the ghia or M12. Being as you are transitioning from a bedroom player, and you use pedals for your OD, that makes me want to recommend the 12. But keep in mind, pretty much all of the Z models sound great with or without pedals.
It's a hard choice but I don't think any of them would be a bad one. If you decide to go with the louder options there are several things you can do to help tame the volume. As Mark mentioned, you can get a brakelite to knock the overall volume down a few clicks. Also, less efficient speakers help a ton. The celestion g12m greenback is one example, but I really like Weber's for lower efficiency and good prices. Weber will also run your speaker through a pre break-in so that it essentially sounds great right out of the box.
Good luck!
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Post by kiki90291 on Sept 8, 2012 11:25:30 GMT -7
Thanks, guys - this has been really helpful. I'm going to play a Maz at the shop to get a feel for the volume. I had forgotten about he attenuator option - that may make the decision a bit easier.
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Post by kiki90291 on Sept 8, 2012 15:48:08 GMT -7
Jesslm02 - could I ask a favor? Could you compare volume settings between your M12 and Maz and let me know what volume setting on the Maz is equal to the loudest clean volume on the M12? That way when I check out the Maz, I can get a sense for how loud the M12 gets. Thanks in advance!
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Post by Frankie Starr on Sept 10, 2012 23:02:42 GMT -7
Jesslm02 - could I ask a favor? Could you compare volume settings between your M12 and Maz and let me know what volume setting on the Maz is equal to the loudest clean volume on the M12? That way when I check out the Maz, I can get a sense for how loud the M12 gets. Thanks in advance! The Maz JR just comes out of the gate louder, kind of like a punch in the nose, where the M12 is less rude, and silky clean....both love pedals, in general the 18NR seems slightly darker and dirtier, where Mr. M12 is cleaner and more brilliant. Hope this helps....saying that, if I was on a desert island and had to take one, I'd probably take the MAZ, for it's versatility......
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cwf
New Member
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Post by cwf on Sept 12, 2012 8:18:41 GMT -7
I've got a Mesa TA-15 and a Carmen Ghia. The Z wins by a mile. My Ghia is the Doc's 2x10 combo is simply a tone machine. The best amp I have ever had. The Ghia has plenty of power for me in the bedroom and in band situations. It could use a tad more headroom-but that is no big deal as dirt pedals are not needed with the Ghia. Its simple layout allows you to hit the sweet spots on every setting. As much as I tried, I just couldn't bond with the TA-15. The Mesa has a bunch of tones to it and is layed out in real cool package--but, to my ears, just doesn't deliver the goods. The cleans are too harsh and the dirt is too muddy and lifeless. I'm a Dr Z Guy all the way now. My next Z will be the M12. A friend of mine let me play his M12 for a few minutes and I was blown away. Straight or with pedals it is a monster. I do almost all my playing in bedroom or maybe with another guitar situation and the M12 seems perfect. Its ability to take pedals and expanded head room is a definite plus. I love my Ghia- but if I could only get one Dr Z, for my needs, it would be the M12.
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Post by Brian on Sept 12, 2012 18:31:31 GMT -7
+1 on the Maz with a brakelite...can cover a ton of sonic territory.
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