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Post by squeallydan on Apr 8, 2006 11:55:51 GMT -7
We spend $1,000 or more on a guitar and more than that on an amp, then want to cut costs on the very part of the rig that first shapes the sound? Wagners are worth the dough. Fralins are worth the dough. Don't know about Lollars and personally didn't care for the Voodoos. I spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars trying different pickups that I didn't like before finding Fralins and Wagners. If you want a real PAF sound, some money may need to be spent. Seriously, The Gibson Angus Young is a nice sounding semi-hotter pup too but it isn't what I would consider to be cheap either. I understand what your saying, but part of me would hope that after paying 3K for a guitar it would sound awesome without having to make any changes to it.
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Post by bks on Apr 8, 2006 12:49:08 GMT -7
Thanks I'll consider that. I hadn't heard of these pickups before - got to do some research now. Thanks! Like I said, I think they're great. I stumbled on 'em after playing a McCarty Soapbar and loving the tone, but not liking the neck, wanting a tremolo, and not having the $$ for a Private Stock (I think my whining at PRS is behind the Singlecut Standard Soapbar that was introduced at NAMM). Someone suggested the Duncan Phat Cats, and that set me off on a quest for P-90-type pups that'd be a direct replacement for standard humbuckers. Fralin was actually my first stop, and I keep going back. Just ordered regular P-90s for the mutant Jazzmaster I'm building...
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Post by Seńor Verde on Apr 8, 2006 23:50:00 GMT -7
I do understand what you are saying, Squeallydan. Maybe to someone else, that guitar would sound perfect completely stock. I own 2 McCarty's and think the stock pups suck, but have read a lot of folks that like them. I wish I weren't such a picky S.O.B. I would have guessed the guitar in question is much more than $2,000 ' cause it is a beauty. I just had to throw out a figure many of us could relate to. Didn't mean to imply it was a cheaper guitar. Let's face it, G.A.S. is good for the economy.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Apr 9, 2006 7:53:20 GMT -7
....part of me would hope that after paying 3K for a guitar it would sound awesome without having to make any changes to it. You're right of course! But for some reason, PRS pickups just never do it for me. I grew up with Gibson humbuckers, and that's the sound in my head. Not that the PRS sound is wrong, just not my sound. It so happens this PRS came up in a trade deal, so now it's mine, and I'd like to use it. But I need "that" sound coming out of it, and I'm quite sure it can produce "that" sound with the right pickups.
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Post by dei305 on Apr 9, 2006 8:18:25 GMT -7
Hey BT, I had a new PRS Custom 22 10 top,birds,with stock PRS pups, 5 way and trem. I change the five to a 3 way and changed the pups to Fralins with coil tap. 8k in the neck, 9K in the bridge. I used a 500K push-pull for each pup. I used a silver-mica 100pf treble cap on the volume control to maintain highs when you lower the volume. I also used a .047 sozo cap for the tone control.The full HB and the single coil tone was awesome. I am not endorsing the Fralins(even though I have this same set up my 75 and 89 LP's). I am suggesting you might want to consider a Bucker with coil tap option. Have fun, Rick.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Apr 9, 2006 9:12:23 GMT -7
Hey BT, I had a new PRS Custom 22 10 top,birds,with stock PRS pups, 5 way and trem. I change the five to a 3 way and changed the pups to Fralins with coil tap. 8k in the neck, 9K in the bridge. I used a 500K push-pull for each pup. I used a silver-mica 100pf treble cap on the volume control to maintain highs when you lower the volume. I also used a .047 sozo cap for the tone control.The full HB and the single coil tone was awesome. I am not endorsing the Fralins(even though I have this same set up my 75 and 89 LP's). I am suggesting you might want to consider a Bucker with coil tap option. Have fun, Rick. Thanks. Fralin has the inside track here because I have Fralins on both of my Groshes and they sound great. But both of those guitars have Fralin single coils, so I've not heard what he can do with HB's. Lots of great suggestions here! Thanks everyone! Now to sort through all this and make a decision...
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Post by prowler on Apr 23, 2006 4:48:19 GMT -7
So what did you decide to go with?
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Apr 23, 2006 9:13:37 GMT -7
So what did you decide to go with? Actually I got sidetracked when this Stingray came up, and poured all my funding into that. So for a few minutes anyway, the PRS went to the back burner while I play with this Stingray. But I'm leaning heavily towards a set of WCR Crossroads. Got to wait till after I order my 2x12 Z cab to see what's left of the old bank account...
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Post by prowler on Apr 24, 2006 7:42:40 GMT -7
WCR Crossroads... good choice! Let us know what you think of them.
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Post by squeallydan on Apr 24, 2006 8:24:57 GMT -7
Hey BT, I had a new PRS Custom 22 10 top,birds,with stock PRS pups, 5 way and trem. I change the five to a 3 way and changed the pups to Fralins with coil tap. 8k in the neck, 9K in the bridge. I used a 500K push-pull for each pup. I used a silver-mica 100pf treble cap on the volume control to maintain highs when you lower the volume. I also used a .047 sozo cap for the tone control.The full HB and the single coil tone was awesome. I am not endorsing the Fralins(even though I have this same set up my 75 and 89 LP's). I am suggesting you might want to consider a Bucker with coil tap option. Have fun, Rick. I don't understand all this pick up stuff. MAybe you guys can help. Specifically, I am wondering why you would change from a 5 way switch to a 3 way switch with coil tapping? Wouldn't the in between pickupp positions that are available with the 5-way swtich going to give a simmilar sound to the coil tapping? Just curious. I am now thinking about changing out the pickups on my PRS.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Apr 24, 2006 9:05:57 GMT -7
Hey BT, I had a new PRS Custom 22 10 top,birds,with stock PRS pups, 5 way and trem. I change the five to a 3 way and changed the pups to Fralins with coil tap. 8k in the neck, 9K in the bridge. I used a 500K push-pull for each pup. I used a silver-mica 100pf treble cap on the volume control to maintain highs when you lower the volume. I also used a .047 sozo cap for the tone control.The full HB and the single coil tone was awesome. I am not endorsing the Fralins(even though I have this same set up my 75 and 89 LP's). I am suggesting you might want to consider a Bucker with coil tap option. Have fun, Rick. I don't understand all this pick up stuff. MAybe you guys can help. Specifically, I am wondering why you would change from a 5 way switch to a 3 way switch with coil tapping? Wouldn't the in between pickupp positions that are available with the 5-way swtich going to give a simmilar sound to the coil tapping? Just curious. I am now thinking about changing out the pickups on my PRS. Well I can't speak for Rick, but I have a second PRS here that has that rotary switch, and it is a right PITA to operate. First, being a rotary, it's not nearly as fast to change as a toggle - a lot harder to operate with a pick in your hand, and there is no real feedback on what setting you have except for your ears. Pull switches for splitting, and a bat handle for pickup selection seems to work a lot better. But the second reason for me is that the ONLY sounds I like on that PRS are the two Humbucking tones, and the one with two Humbuckers on at the same time. All that other crap sounds just like that - crap. It's just in the way for me. I mentioned in another thread the Gibson 335 that I mangled. Cut a hole for a third pickup, put in a second toggle switch, some mini-toggles for splitting and phase reversals, and some other refinements. Had to take apart the pickups and add the split wire myself because there were no splittable humbuckers back then. I had this vision of all these wonderful tones - I could switch on any individual coil, and I could turn on any other coil and put it in series, in parallel, phase reverse, everything! Virtually all of that junk sounded terrible! The only thing I ended up liking was the original two humbucking tones. What a monumental waste of effort, and I destroyed a nice guitar in the process. These days pickups are designed to be more friendly to each other and you could probably get better tones today, but when you get done, you're still going to have two or three you like and a load that sound like guano...
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Post by bks on Apr 24, 2006 12:19:14 GMT -7
I went 3-way/Push-Pull for a number of reasons...
1. The single coil positions are all in combinations of a single coil from the neck and bridge pickups, and I'd rather be able to have a single coil from either than the "exotic" inner/outer/series options.
2. The 5-way doesn't give you neck & bridge without splitting the coils.
3. Like Steve said, the 5-way's just a hassle to use.
BKS
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Post by garyh on Apr 24, 2006 14:38:28 GMT -7
I keep breaking the 5 way switch (been through at least three) and I only use the humbuckers on my PRS. I'm thinking of changing my sweet switch to a 3 way selector and turning the 5 way into a tone control.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Apr 26, 2006 20:50:49 GMT -7
Well I had decided on the WCR's, but I was in the store today and there in the counter were a set of Fralin PAF's and I just couldn't resist - no fiddling with PayPay, no waiting for UPS, and the pickups are almost fully installed already. There it is. Just need to put in the pull switch for the splits and I'm done. So I'm definitely in vintage land with these, and we shall see tomorrow just where that has me going..
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Post by tele1962 on Apr 26, 2006 22:23:27 GMT -7
Can I throw a spanner into the works? Nice looking guitar and PRS has nice workmanship. But for that kind of $$, would a Les Paul Standard with stock HB's not give you that smooth, midrange scooped tone you crave?
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Apr 27, 2006 7:37:45 GMT -7
Can I throw a spanner into the works? Nice looking guitar and PRS has nice workmanship. But for that kind of $$, would a Les Paul Standard with stock HB's not give you that smooth, midrange scooped tone you crave? Probably would have. But I got this PRS in a straight up trade for another guitar that I wasn't using. Seemed the thing to do at the time. Once I got her home is when I discovered she has distemper, so needs a shot of vintage pups to get her healed... oh, and a final thought on that - the way Gibson acts lately, I'm not much interested in their products at all, at all, at all. You don't get to be a great company by suing your competition just because they happen to make a much higher quality product - that's my two cents and you're entitled to them.
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Post by Hohn on May 16, 2006 8:30:03 GMT -7
Fralin has buckers?
Did I ever tell you about the Kinmans that replaced the original Fralins in my strat? hehe
Wish I knew what I did with those Fralins. Could made some $$.
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Post by guitarman1 on May 17, 2006 7:22:44 GMT -7
I replaced the stock '57s in a 2004 335 with Wagner Darkbursts and was very impressed. They opened up the sound, but still retained warmth.
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Post by squeallydan on Jul 7, 2006 7:07:28 GMT -7
How'd the pickup switch turn out? Do you like the Fralins?
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jul 7, 2006 7:34:37 GMT -7
How'd the pickup switch turn out? Do you like the Fralins? Yeah, they are a lot better than what I had in there before. But I'm just not a bucker guy I guess. They sound great. But when I play it, I just want to get it to sound like my Strat... I think I'm going to go ahead and put in the split switches so that I can get at least the neck pup down to a single coil and see what happens. But that sort of defeats the whole idea of having a humbucker in the first place, so I waffle. They are clean and clear and do not have that nasal peakiness the PRS pups have. But truth be told, I've been way busy and haven't really given the PRS enough time lately. Just got my 2x12 cab in for the Stingray and between that and some other projects, the PRS is sitting on its stand frowning at me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2006 12:00:34 GMT -7
Hi Steve, I think what you are looking for is the Fralin Unbucker. Here is what they have on their site. In our Unbucker, we wind the screw coil stronger than the slug coil. This makes the pickup sound a little more single coil, but the best reason to do this is for coil tapping. When tapped the stronger coil is active as opposed to half a pickup. Our best selling set of these is 7.5K neck (4.5-3) and 8.5 Bridge (5-3.5) 3 conductor lead with a Vintage Hot reverse middle in-between. (Humb.-single-Humb.). Combining the two coils gives a total ohm reading or approximate output to compare to normal humbuckers.A quote from Mass Streel music: The Unbucker Set is for those of you who want it all. While they are definitely humbuckers, they resemble single coil pickups more than any other PAFs.Anyway I am sure you can return the PAF set you bought and exchange them for the Unbucker set or get both!
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jul 7, 2006 15:14:17 GMT -7
Hi Steve, I think what you are looking for is the Fralin Unbucker. Here is what they have on their site. In our Unbucker, we wind the screw coil stronger than the slug coil. This makes the pickup sound a little more single coil, but the best reason to do this is for coil tapping. When tapped the stronger coil is active as opposed to half a pickup. Our best selling set of these is 7.5K neck (4.5-3) and 8.5 Bridge (5-3.5) 3 conductor lead with a Vintage Hot reverse middle in-between. (Humb.-single-Humb.). Combining the two coils gives a total ohm reading or approximate output to compare to normal humbuckers.A quote from Mass Streel music: The Unbucker Set is for those of you who want it all. While they are definitely humbuckers, they resemble single coil pickups more than any other PAFs.Anyway I am sure you can return the PAF set you bought and exchange them for the Unbucker set or get both! I bet I would like them. But I already have two Strats, two Tele's and a Variax here - why have another guitar that sounds that way? If I ever get past all this amp fiddling here, I'm going to spend some quality time with the PRS as presently configured, and find the right amp settings for it. One wouldn't expect to plug a Les Paul into an amp configured for a Strat and have it sound right - this is close to that same conundrum.
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Post by username on Jul 7, 2006 18:58:03 GMT -7
Here are some pickups that I was looking at the other day on the Internet... never tried them, nor have I heard them to my knowledge... they have a model that would fit that PRS... TV Jones' .....That great, classic Filter'Tron™ sound. TV'Tron ...uses the same size cover and baseplate as a standard humbucker, so it can be mounted into any guitar with standard humbucker pickup cavities TV Jones pickups available in TV'Tron mount: TV Classic TV Classic Plus Power'Tron Power'Tron Plus Magnatron www.tvjones.com/homeframe.htm
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Post by username on Jul 7, 2006 19:02:24 GMT -7
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Post by skydog958 on Jul 8, 2006 11:30:38 GMT -7
I've had my eyes on Bare Knuckle pickups...haven't found the cash to get them (they are pricey). I will try their PAF styles in my H-535 sometime in the near future (they are called Stormy Mondays). Wanted to try the Black Dog (hot PAF) in my Paul, but I ended up finding a set of Seymour Duncan Custom Shop Jimmy Page pickups which are awesome. I was never much a fan of SDs, but these are killer.
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Post by janinedoubly on Jul 8, 2006 19:57:30 GMT -7
I have a lot of experience with Fralin Unbuckers, so here are my two cents. They do resemble a single coil in a lot of ways, but, and this is a big BUT, they still sound like humbuckers. I think what Lindy is refering to when he says they are more like single coils, is the fact that the Unbucker has a wider frequency response, especially in the top end, because the two coils do not cancel out as much high frequency content. Plus, the un-even coils actually make the pickup more efficient, thus a slightly wider dynamic range, i.e. much less compression than a standard humbucker where the two coils are identical. BUT, they are still humbuckers (or technically 75% humbuckers), still giving you the slight compression and thicker mids that two coils side be side can do. I use Fralin Vintage Hots in my Grosh Strat and have used Unbuckers in a couple of different set neck style guitars (Hamer Artist, 335's). The thing I like is that the Fralin Unbuckers are low enough output and have enough top end that I don't need to tweak my amp settings when switching guitars, BUT, the sound is definitely different! The Unbuckers ARE "humbuckery", its just that the basic tone and gain settings can stay the same without having to turn the treble or presence up and the gain knob down after playing my single coils. I give the Fralin Unbuckers a thumbs up, especially if you are used to single coils, cause you won't have to vary your playing technique or your amp settings. By the way, the Unbuckers were developed by Lindy after repairing hundreds of old PAF's. He noticed that invariably, almost all PAF's have uneven coils and low output. And he found these to be the best sounding PAF's. Its funny, cause so many other companies have marketed just about the same thing with many of their "PAF" re-issues; Gibson Burstbuckers, SD Pearly Gates, any of the knock offs of EVH's supposedly "broken" PAF, which everyone found to be un-even coils!
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Post by jwr on Jul 11, 2006 18:26:02 GMT -7
My Tele has a Humbucker in the bridge position and I wanted it to have a single coil sound. I put a Fralin Twangmaster in it and I like it a lot. LOTS of low end, very clear, very quiet and plenty of power. I like it so much I'm having the neck position routed out so I can put one there as well. Might be worth a shot. Jason
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jul 11, 2006 20:39:36 GMT -7
My Tele has a Humbucker in the bridge position and I wanted it to have a single coil sound. I put a Fralin Twangmaster in it and I like it a lot. LOTS of low end, very clear, very quiet and plenty of power. I like it so much I'm having the neck position routed out so I can put one there as well. Might be worth a shot. Jason Interesting. Does it sound like a Tele, or does it sound like a humbucker guitar? I have a humbucker in my '67 Frankenstein Tele, and I've been considering putting it back to stock, but to do that I would have to fill the big ol' route and then re-route for the original pup. If I could get it back to the original tone without doing any fill work that would be deluxe!
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Post by jwr on Jul 11, 2006 23:45:11 GMT -7
Everyone who has heard it so far say's that it sounds like a Tele, finally. I went middle of the road with the windings on mine at 9000 in the Bridge and it sounds like the Tele I've always wanted. Plenty of twang but lots of nice low end and they are about as quiet as my humbuckers in my Les Paul with SD Alnico II's. I've tried it with a number of different amps and it sounds really good with everything I've plugged it into. Here's the ONLY problem I see with them. In my guitar I had a humbucker in the bridge and a single coil in the neck. With the staggered pole pieces of the Twangmaster combined with a standard neck pickup the guitar is out of phase in the middle position. For me that's a total drag but I've heard some people like that sound. I like the Twangmaster enough to commit to routing the neck pup cavity so that I'll have a Twangmaster in both position's. Other than that, if your looking to turn that Frankin Tele of yours into a more traditional Tele I highly recommend the Fralins. Good luck, finding the right pickup is a hard thing to do. If only it were as easy as plugging in a stompbox and trying it at the store. Jason
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Jul 12, 2006 6:10:06 GMT -7
Everyone who has heard it so far say's that it sounds like a Tele, finally. I went middle of the road with the windings on mine at 9000 in the Bridge and it sounds like the Tele I've always wanted. Plenty of twang but lots of nice low end and they are about as quiet as my humbuckers in my Les Paul with SD Alnico II's. I've tried it with a number of different amps and it sounds really good with everything I've plugged it into. Here's the ONLY problem I see with them. In my guitar I had a humbucker in the bridge and a single coil in the neck. With the staggered pole pieces of the Twangmaster combined with a standard neck pickup the guitar is out of phase in the middle position. For me that's a total drag but I've heard some people like that sound. I like the Twangmaster enough to commit to routing the neck pup cavity so that I'll have a Twangmaster in both position's. Other than that, if your looking to turn that Frankin Tele of yours into a more traditional Tele I highly recommend the Fralins. Good luck, finding the right pickup is a hard thing to do. If only it were as easy as plugging in a stompbox and trying it at the store. Jason Thanks! Karma for that!
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