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Post by charlienc on Oct 7, 2005 9:25:31 GMT -7
hi z junkies,
i am currently trying to find out if, as i've heard it said:
smaller strings are less likely to break because they exert less tension on the guitar neck.
to me this seems a grievous err in judgement because by my reasoning: a bigger string has a greater mass and is inherently stronger and more able to withstand the greater tension being placed on the neck.
please chime in with your ideas. it would be nice to hear some answers from the engineering professional field. but mostly i'm just curious. it seems like an old wives tale to me, but what do i know.
thanks, charlie
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Post by billyguitar on Oct 7, 2005 18:31:41 GMT -7
Smaller strings break less? Seems counterintuitive. It seems I broke more strings 25 years ago when I played the skinny strings.
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Post by charlienc on Oct 8, 2005 16:36:39 GMT -7
yeah, it's ridiculous. but these guys over at the seymour duncan forum are ripping me apart for disagreeing with them. oh well, nobody's perfect
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Post by jzguitar on Oct 8, 2005 17:23:48 GMT -7
If smaller strings don't break as easily, why is the high E string one of the most common broken strings? Just a thought.
jz
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Post by billyguitar on Oct 8, 2005 20:36:01 GMT -7
.009s feel so weird to me now I don't know why people want to play them. I used to cramp up sometimes when I used skinny strings. Now that I'm used to bigger strings I stll cramp up sometimes. So that's really no different. In other words you get used to whatever you play. Your hands adapt. I still think thicker strings don't break as often. You also don't have to use picks that flex with thicker strings. A heavy pick sounds better than a medium pick.
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Post by imyurhuckleberry on Oct 17, 2005 9:06:33 GMT -7
It depends on the bridge and type of guitar. Acoustics, bigger strings do break a bit more, I'm told. Most electrics, unless vintage, will serve beter with .10's and up
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Post by bluzsteel on Oct 17, 2005 11:13:00 GMT -7
smaller strings break to easy
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arthur
Junior Member
Posts: 85
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Post by arthur on Dec 4, 2005 23:00:13 GMT -7
I never break any strings when using 11's or 12's, very rarely with 10's, and at least once a month when I played 9's.
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Post by svetlana87 on Dec 13, 2005 21:15:53 GMT -7
I think with the acoustics, it's because the neck scale is shorter, but the string has to be wound as tight as it would be on an electric guitar, thus causing more tension. I play 12's on my strat and I only change strings because I don't want to get hepatitis playing rusty strings
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dave
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by dave on Dec 19, 2005 3:29:57 GMT -7
I very rarely broke strings until I got a PRS a couple of years a go and I now seem regularly get string breakages (E or B, 10's). Last gig it was the second bar of the first song in the set. Great guitar but a backup is essential. Hardly ever break strings on the strat (10's again). Anyone else found the PRS saddle tends to break strings? Anyone tried the graphtech saddles? Do they make a difference? dave
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Post by bluzsteel on Dec 19, 2005 7:14:19 GMT -7
I use 11's on my PRS , feels just right, no string break
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Post by propellr on Dec 19, 2005 8:16:52 GMT -7
"Smaller strings are less likely to break because they exert less tension on the guitar neck."
If this were true, the smaller kids at school would be less likely to get hurt because they exert less tension on the bullys' fists!
My two cents says that strings break for lots of different reasons, depending on the kind of player, the guitar, the set up, the pick, the string gauge, the temperature, and the age of the strings.
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Post by joekondziella on Dec 19, 2005 10:47:51 GMT -7
The graphtech saddles made a big difference on my strat .I changed them years ago when I was breaking one or two 11's a night. That stopped that for me. That could have just been a bad saddle on my American standard- but it rectified the sitch.
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 19, 2005 11:36:24 GMT -7
My first Tom Anderson guitar (a hollow tele drop top) could only go 5 sets before breaking a .011 or .010. The I put on the graph tech saddles. Strings didn't break any more but it sure changed the tone of the guitar. Later I decided I wanted to change the neck pickup to a humbucker and sent it back to TA for the change. What's funny is they allowed me a trade-in deduct on the pickup! I did have to pay for the new pickguard, reasonable to me. I don't remember how we communicated if thru the dealer or email but anyway they wanted to put the original saddles back on. I told them how they break strings too much. They said the saddles need to be smoothed and polished and a little lube used in the slot. I said on a guitar that costs over 2 grand they should do that before sending it out! (I'm not ragging on Tom Anderson, they are really a first class company and I'm totally satified with the two guitars I own) Now that the saddles are polished and I use Nut Sauce under the string I'm pretty comfortable using the same high e string for two gigs or rehearsals and one gig. I consider the strings to last a normal rate before breakage now. The new kind of Graph Tech saddles with just a bit of the graphite stuff inlaid into the saddle probably sound better but I'll stick with the stock saddles now.
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Post by jwr on Dec 19, 2005 12:21:05 GMT -7
Alright you guys are killing me. I tried 11's a long time ago and just couldn't do it. Just over the weekend I put a 11 and a 14 as my E and B strings on my Les Paul tuned down a 1/2 step. The rest of the guitar is a regular set of EB 10's. The only reason I tried it was because I was reading about it here at the forum. I learn something new here all the time. I like this set up, I need to play around with it some more but it sounds like the guitar is balanced a little better. When I played 9's I broke strings all the time as I pick almost all my notes. I've played 10's for years with no problems. Hardly ever break strings, regardless what guitar I'm playing.
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 19, 2005 14:52:35 GMT -7
On my Tom Andersons I buy the .010 to.052 sets and trade the .010 for a .011. I do not detune. If I have a store make up a set I go .0105, .012, .016, .030, .040, .050. With these sets I can bend the b and g strings up a whole step up at the same time pretty easy. It's harder with the .013 and .017. I like the heavier low strings so they don't go sharp when you hit 'em hard.
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Post by Laroosco!! on Dec 20, 2005 23:33:27 GMT -7
People that beat the crap out of the strings with their right hand break strings. I'm not sure that I would say light gage strings are harder to break tho. That just doesn't sound right
When I break strings(which hasn't happened in over a year now) it is usually the low E or A strings. This happened on all of my guitars so it's not a bridge issue.
I play 9's and usually use my fingers but when I do use picks I use Mojo picks(silver quarter filed to the shape of a pick) I like to pick a lot right at the bridge saddles for a biting Freddie King type tone. Guess what, I don't break strings...amazing. I play 9's because they suit my style. A lot of legato playing and a LOT of bending and a very wide vibrato. And I guarantee that my tone is as good or better than a lot of guys playing 10's.
Sorry guys but this gets to be a but of a sore spot with me. I hear too many guys ragging on small strings because of "Stevie Ray Syndrome" and the general macho bullsh-it that says bigger is better.
If somebody can't bend to pitch or control their vibrato(a common complaint I hear about light gage strings) I think they only have themselves to blame. I don't care for heavy strings but I can play them. Hell, I sat in a friends gig and played a Tele that had an 8-38 set on it last week. I didn't bend out of tune and I didn't break any strings.
I'm not trying to single any of you out, I guess I'm just venting because I think that light gage strings get a bad rap.
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 21, 2005 5:19:56 GMT -7
It's all a matter of what you get used to. Certainly a lot of classic guitar players used skinny strings. Hendrix, Clapton, Page, you name 'em and those are the same sounds we strive for now. I think you can compensate quite a bit with the amps controls and how you play. Use a light touch and the skinny strings will sound good. However I don't think I can ever go back. I too bend a lot and very precisely, up to a minor third or more for effect, and I use a wide vibrato. One thing about the bigger strings is you must have tall frets. Tom Anderson stainless steel frets are ideal. Very slick, tall and give a sweetness to the tone and they don't wear. No fret dress and polish every six months.
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Post by jwr on Dec 21, 2005 15:21:25 GMT -7
I've got Dunlop 6100 fret wire on my Les Paul, Strat and Tele. When I switched to the bigger fret wire I noticed an immediate difference. It was much easier to bend notes and my vibrato got better, thank God;<) But my PRS is completely stock and it plays just as well if not better than any of my other guitars. I've used 10's on all of them forever. So many things go into a persons sound, strings, pickups, tubes, body wood, neck wood, fret wire, speakers, etc. Tone is like a stew that you cook for a lifetime(that was totally cheesy!) and it's a lot of fun finding new ingredients. I tried to play 11's when I was younger and could not pull it off, but it was a bragging rights thing for me at the time. Now I'm switching things up a bit because I'm learning more from being here at this forum and I'm trying new things for the right reasons. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Billy G play's 8's Who's gonna give the Reverend a hard time about that!
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 22, 2005 6:30:49 GMT -7
Yea but with Billy G, when was the last time you heard his guitar. It's so buried in distortion I think he could play one of Esteban's electrics and sound the same. I think Deguello was all recorded direct into the board. I haven't cared for his tone since. I saw ZZ on CMT Crossroads a while back and he was playing that hollowed out les paul into a Crate V amp. Bad tone, should have had a Z. He played Tush and on the slide solos he actually pushed the slide right down on the frets! That wasn't good at all! Playing 8s on a Les Paul and with low action, not good for slide at all. The man has such outstanding taste and style I just wish he'd chill on the distortion and get a good tone. Of course, he's grinding all the way to the bank and I'm not!
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Post by taswegian on Dec 22, 2005 6:51:55 GMT -7
I've been watching the Eric Clapton Crossroads Festival DVD recorded at The Cottan Bowl in Dallas in 2004 (I think) ZZ do the last two songs (La Grange and Tush) and Billy flat out rocks! And his tone is fantastic...it's as you would expect BG to sound. EJ sounds awesome too. Those Texas boys...
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Post by jwr on Dec 22, 2005 9:03:44 GMT -7
He's also tuning WAY down as well. I grew up on really distorted guitars though, when I was 12 I was already listening to Metallica. Kirk Hammett was my first guitar idol. Now I'm making the switch backward to old blues players and slowly getting into country as well. I actually liked Billy G's tone as his last recording, he's always trying something new and I respect that. You can always recognize his playing and that's what's important, no matter what gauge of string or amp/guitar combination he's using.
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Post by Curt on Dec 22, 2005 9:10:51 GMT -7
I've been watching the Eric Clapton Crossroads Festival DVD recorded at The Cottan Bowl in Dallas in 2004 (I think) ZZ do the last two songs (La Grange and Tush) and Billy flat out rocks! And his tone is fantastic...it's as you would expect BG to sound. EJ sounds awesome too. Those Texas boys... A how, how, how.... back atcha from the great state of Texas my friend......yep were spoiled down here I once read an interview with the Reverend waaay back around '82, Billy said "You can't have too much distortion..." now I don't agree, but that's Billy's take. Personaly, I'll take his early tone with "Pearly" through an old Marshall ala Rio Grande mud era Top.
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 23, 2005 6:04:02 GMT -7
Billy G has an amazing touch and style. I'm sure for the trio the ton of distortion helps fill it up. I grew up in the 60s. Lots of distortion then too but lots of good clean tones also. I'm just not a fan of so much distortion. I like to hear the slight flubs, fret rattle and pick scrapes. I think it lets more of the guitar players individual personality come through. That personality is what puts a unique stamp on the music. Listen to Dire Straights Money For Nothin' compared to Sultans Of Swing. There's a lot more Knopfler on Sultans of swing, if you know what I mean.
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Post by tele1962 on Jan 1, 2006 16:40:05 GMT -7
I've done part time guitar tech work for a lot of players over the last 30 years, and if the bridge assembly, nut and even the winding posts are all aligned and functional, no burrs or hard edges, it's no more likely to break .008-.038's than it is to break .011-.052's. With the sensitive and responsive amps we have today, there is very little need to beat sound out of a guitar, and Laroosco is right. The right hand hammering on these things without thought or purpose usually breaks strings of any gauge.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2006 15:53:22 GMT -7
I've seen guys that use 13's, on acoustics break strings. They fold the pick in half almost (a thin pick mind ya') and are literally slicing the string in half with the pick. I'm not talkin' 'bout the first string here. I'm talkin' 'bout the "A" and low "E". A little touch and maybe turning up some would save having to replace broken strings. I'm not the softest player but I use 9's on a G&L Legacy with no string breakage problems. Just keep the saddles burr free and the nut in shape and your good to go.
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Post by tele1962 on Jan 2, 2006 21:05:34 GMT -7
Exactly what I've experienced through the years, Doc. I know that Zac would agree with me on this one and that is that.... "a guitar's worst enemy is its' player!" And that includes the sin of non-maintanance. The Legacy will be fine with .009-.042's. I've worked on dozens of those over the years as well, and Leo and George had those single coils very responsive to keeping signal through hard bending, and the bridges were quite precise in how they were milled...the saddles usually fairly pristine as well, and if you keep your instrument in top shape...breaking strings will be a rarity.
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Post by billyguitar on Jan 3, 2006 7:57:03 GMT -7
I took a chance New Year's Eve (4 hour gig) and didn't change strings that I had already used on a 4 hour gig, a 5 hour gig, a rehearsal and the usual amont of noodling around the house. I thought I would pop the .0105 but didn't. I also use heavy picks. I even had a spare string and clippers laid out on top of my amp in case I did break the E. One thing I'm sure helped was that I always put some Big Bends Nut Sauce under the string on the saddle. I've been trying to be more aware of how hard I pick lately. Lighter picking really sounds better.
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Post by tele1962 on Jan 3, 2006 11:49:51 GMT -7
Yea, I really think that "touch" in general saves equipment. In baseball, when a bat breaks it's usually not a good solid swing on a ball over the plate that does it. It's a lousy foul...something in on the hands...some goofy swing that does it.
Or frustration in the dugout!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2006 13:45:41 GMT -7
The Legacy will be fine with .009-.042's...the saddles usually fairly pristine as well Like I say "my touch isn't as good as it should be". I was chewing up the stock saddles. Put on DeTemples Titanium Saddles and they sound great plus don't wear.
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