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Post by pintail78 on Nov 7, 2011 12:01:28 GMT -7
Route 66 vs KT-45 Whats the diffence between these 2? I have a Z-28, love it tone and usability, ive had many of the other Z's too.
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Post by edoetsch on Nov 20, 2012 10:32:50 GMT -7
From what I understand as a Route only owner is KT is a fairly clean and glassy, loud amp great for pedals. It gets some grit to it a punishing volumes so attenuator is needed for most smaller venues. Route 66 gives up the grind earlier and has a pronounced upper mid-range hump which cuts through the mix. In my opinion it takes boost and overdrive pedals REALLY well but bass-centric fuzz pedals like the big muff loose some of their low-end punch when the Route is in breakup.
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Post by troutstrat on Nov 21, 2012 12:20:46 GMT -7
Good description. I would also add that the KT also has some great powerful gain and still very well defined note clarity with the knobs anywhere past noon.
Sooner or later you may end up owning both amps anyway. So, why wonder.
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Post by savage8190 on Nov 27, 2012 12:45:48 GMT -7
I'm on the prowl for another Z now that I have my perfect Vox fix...I'm looking hard at the KT-45. I REALLY loved the Route 66, but sometimes wished it had a little more headroom, and that it took fuzz pedals better (as mentioned above, they really lose their punch with the 66).
Am I barking up the right tree?
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Post by ktommy on Nov 28, 2012 10:37:16 GMT -7
I've just posted a video of my KT45 with a Weehbo Morbid Drive, which I recently purchased (and I like A LOT). Maybe it could give you an idea ;-)
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Post by savage8190 on Nov 29, 2012 7:23:45 GMT -7
I've just posted a video of my KT45 with a Weehbo Morbid Drive, which I recently purchased (and I like A LOT). Maybe it could give you an idea ;-) Great sounding clip/amp man...thanks! I think it sounds perfect. Did you have a speaker mic'd or the room? Wondering how much that zbest is changing the tone. Either way, you nailed almost every tone I'd need (sweet pedal too). You wouldn't happen to have a Big Muff'ish pedal you could make a post with? I'd love to hear that.
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Post by ktommy on Nov 29, 2012 7:51:40 GMT -7
Thank you savage! I recorded this clip with a zoom Q3, but a lot of magic is missing because I wanted to shot the pedal and show the changes of setting, so the mic was placed at the bottom. The sound is pretty much straight GH30 off-axle, but the greatness of the cab is the perfect combination between the full and warm sound of the GH30 and the aggressive high-mid sparkle of the V30 (which is on the top). Once again, reality is much much better ;-)
Regarding your question about muff style pedals, I had (not for a long time actually) a BM Tone/Wicker and a BYOC Large Beaver Ram's Head. Both sounded really great with this amp, largely because of its super thickness (I hate muddy sounding fuzzes, expecially muffs)...man any pedal sounds great with the KT! That being said, I'm not a great fan of big muffs, so I sold both of 'em...I find a lot more satisfying using stuff like tame fuzzfaces (now I'm using a Monsterpiece NPN) and stack em with od's. I can't really find a use for crazy sputtery stuff...I mean, it's okay at home, but once you're playing with a band everything gets more complicated and YOU NEED TO CUT THROUGH. Period Maybe it could sound weird, but in the end I find myself using an OCD V4 as a fuzzy pedal (which is in my opinion, when you max the gain in LP): you don't get lost in the mix, doesn't pierce your eardrums while retaining some V8 bark, if you know what I mean. And more importantly, If you use Les Pauls or humbuckers in general, it's usable at full throttle even with the neck pickup playing heavy chords, while any fuzz would give up and overcompress.
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Post by savage8190 on Nov 29, 2012 10:23:53 GMT -7
Thank you savage! I recorded this clip with a zoom Q3, but a lot of magic is missing because I wanted to shot the pedal and show the changes of setting, so the mic was placed at the bottom. The sound is pretty much straight GH30 off-axle, but the greatness of the cab is the perfect combination between the full and warm sound of the GH30 and the aggressive high-mid sparkle of the V30 (which is on the top). Once again, reality is much much better ;-) Regarding your question about muff style pedals, I had (not for a long time actually) a BM Tone/Wicker and a BYOC Large Beaver Ram's Head. Both sounded really great with this amp, largely because of its super thickness (I hate muddy sounding fuzzes, expecially muffs)...man any pedal sounds great with the KT! That being said, I'm not a great fan of big muffs, so I sold both of 'em...I find a lot more satisfying using stuff like tame fuzzfaces (now I'm using a Monsterpiece NPN) and stack em with od's. I can't really find a use for crazy sputtery stuff...I mean, it's okay at home, but once you're playing with a band everything gets more complicated and YOU NEED TO CUT THROUGH. Period Maybe it could sound weird, but in the end I find myself using an OCD V4 as a fuzzy pedal (which is in my opinion, when you max the gain in LP): you don't get lost in the mix, doesn't pierce your eardrums while retaining some V8 bark, if you know what I mean. And more importantly, If you use Les Pauls or humbuckers in general, it's usable at full throttle even with the neck pickup playing heavy chords, while any fuzz would give up and overcompress. Thanks a ton for the comments. Between your demo, and GMD's demo, I'm nearly sold on the KT. From your clip I can tell it takes overdrive and distortion insanely well, I'm sure fuzz would be no different (the cleans sound great too). To give you an idea, I play a LOT of Silversun Pickups and Smashing Pumpkins....and my own derivative of that type of music...Brian Aubert uses (mostly) a Hiwatt and a Fender Deville, sometimes a Plexi...Corgan mostly Marshall (early stuff, the newer stuff is crap) and I'd say it leans to more distortion-esque type fuzz than real clipping craziness. In fact, when I've seen them live its more dimed amp distortion than anything I think. I use a Big Muff mostly, a Swollen Pickle occasionally, but they are set on the mild side. Have you played a Route? From the clips the KT sounds a bit more chimey clean...I hope Im right there. If thats the case then it would be perfect I think.
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Post by ktommy on Nov 30, 2012 4:22:53 GMT -7
If is clean you need, go for the KT. There are punchier, louder (which means too loud) and more tweakable amps out there, but when it comes to clarity, consistency, balance and pure coherence for you pedals there's no way of finding something better. You'll realize how much this amp helps you onstage...I mean, my sound is always PERFECT and I never had a problem with wrong frequencies regardless of the venue! I really took my chances with this amp, cause I bought it without even testing it before, and I gotta tell you, it is not a shower. It's not something that makes you crazy at first glance, mostly because its greatness comes out once you really use it for what it has been built (i.e. not for playing in your bedroom ). I never played with a RT66 and I'm very curious about it (damn, I'm curious about a lot of Z's), but for what I need there's hardly something better. In my opinion the KT (for my needs) is far better than a Hiwatt custom or a Marshall slp or 1987, which I played with many times and I found too hard (and extremely "dry", regarding Hiwatts), not focused (this goes for the Marshalls) and in general not as rewarding to play with. Lastly, for the sounds you're looking for I'd give the Blackout Musket a try, it's a great great sounding muff style pedal and is no trick pony. Well, I am not concise...at all
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Post by edoetsch on Dec 6, 2012 9:29:20 GMT -7
Though I have not played a KT I will say that something other than the Route 66 would be a better choice for Smashing Pumpkins. Once the volume is around 9-10 the characteristics of the Route 66 really kick in and Muff Pedals (Smashing Pumpkins galore) lose their bass and "conform" to the mid hump of the Route. I am very close to buying a KT for exactly this reason. I've just got to shuffle some money around.
The Route 66 is a GREAT amp and I doubt I would part with it. It is a blues and classic rock monster that works great with boosts and overdrives. Fuzz Face type fuzzes are very good as well, but bass heavy fuzzes not so much.
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Post by edoetsch on Dec 6, 2012 9:30:30 GMT -7
In short, the Route is not really a clean palate type of amp.
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Post by "Z" Steve on Dec 6, 2012 11:00:17 GMT -7
Here's a nice clip of a Rt 66 in action. Try to imagine it without the organ
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Post by edoetsch on Dec 6, 2012 13:16:20 GMT -7
Actually the Organ being in there is great proof that the Route does not get buried in the mix.
It sounds like a Fuzz Face type pedal is used for the solo.
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greenz
Junior Member
Posts: 51
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Post by greenz on Dec 28, 2012 10:44:05 GMT -7
Excellent question!
Besides output tubes, are there differences in the preamp circuit voicing?
Specifically, is the circuit around the EF-86 different?
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Post by Albert on Dec 29, 2012 18:31:58 GMT -7
I have owned both ,,,,the cap across the Bass/Treble is what gives the Route the rich mids .. If I remember the EF86 circuit is the same for the both amps ...
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Post by eliot1025 on Jan 17, 2013 2:53:34 GMT -7
I've owned both. They're radically different from each other. The front end is very similar if not identical. They both take pedals very well. But they sound nothing like each other.
The KT is chimey in the Vox and Hiwatt camp. If you've got your Vox thing set up you'll find some tonal crossover with the KT. So, it may not be as useful as something totally different. It's got a fantastic crunch but only when maxed or almost maxed. It's my favorite crunch tone. There used to be a KT45 clip at the Z site played by David Grissom. If it's still there you can hear the crunch as it sounds through a Marshall cab with greenbacks. So it's super clean, tons of headroom; the 2nd cleanest amp Z makes. Kind of punchy. I loved it for some applications but IMHO a terrible amp for blues. (Unless you want your blues to have a boingy and chirpy flavor.)
The Route has little of the high end definition you'll find in the KT. It's pretty dark; the highs sound rolled-off. It's breakup is noticibly smoother than a Marshall - a distinctive breakup. To me, it's one of the best amps I've ever heard for jazz. A real jazz guitar sleeper because people think of its saturated tones. Dialed back there's still plenty of clean power for most jazz gigs and its' cleans are rich and warm while maintaining definition. Here again, I loved it for some things (classic rock and jazz) but not for lots of things.
Both great amps. But you've got to know what kind of sound you want before you buy. I learned that the hard way.
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