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Post by zorange (Zach) on May 13, 2011 9:27:22 GMT -7
I'm torn between a RXES or Stangray for a very near-future amp buy. I definitely want an amp with an EF86 in the preamp section! I really cant tell what the difference in these amps are besides the amount of watts. I am currently playing a Maz JR NR and love her. I'm looking for is something with more headroom and volume isnt really an issue because of the amp-isolation system that I use. I play christian rock...think Hillsong, Fee, Kristian Stanfill, David Crowder type of sounds with a little bit of blues on the side (I like those John Mayer, SRV, Bonnamassa type of tones) I have a few dirt boxes on my pedal board so getting the amps natural drive isnt TOO big of a deal. My ideal base tone would be the amp setup so that it has a very minimal amount of hair to it, but still noticable.
Which one of these amps would you guys consider closer to the Matchless C-30? I have gotten to play one of those a few times and LOVE it but being a Dr. Z man, I wanna attempt to stay in the family.
Any advice is very very appreciated! Thanks Z-talk.
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Post by zorange (Zach) on May 20, 2011 15:18:22 GMT -7
Any help here forum?
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on May 20, 2011 16:02:24 GMT -7
It's been over 12 years since I had my Matchless HC-30... so I'm a little rusty on the conmparison but if i had to go on memory alone between those two amps I'd say the RX ES would be a little closer... YMMV but both are different than the Matchless as it kinda has it's "thing" like the Z's do too...
and for what you mentioned you're needing / type of music I would think EITHER amp would do... don't know if you're a tele / strat or even a les paul guy, but I'd lean toward the RX ES...
and just to throw out another suggestion...
might wanna think about a MAZ SR NR.
might get even closer to the HC 30 with the right speakers than the RX ES or RAY and you said you like the MAZ JR NR...
but your needs... between those two I'd go RX ES.
Jason
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Post by zorange (Zach) on May 22, 2011 5:24:39 GMT -7
I'm usually a strat/tele guy lately. Thats not to say I wouldnt get a 335 or LP in the future. I definitely want the EF86 in the preamp to achieve sonic variation which is why I would strat away from the Maz Sr. Thanks for your input! I'll take every part of it into consideration.
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on May 22, 2011 6:59:41 GMT -7
Sorry I'm a little late to the party When you say "I really cant tell what the difference in these amps are besides the amount of watts." I'm assuming that you mean that you haven't had the opportunity to hear these two amps. I think they're very different. Also, the RxES and Stangray both have an EF86 in the preamp; that's true, but they're used in very different roles in the topology of the amp. The Stangray has the EF86 as it's first tube in the preamp, a.k.a. "V1". It gives the amp more input headroom, making it take pedals really well, and as we jokingly say, "sucking more tone out of the guitar". It definitely sounds differently than the usual 12AX7 input tube. However, there are techniques you can use on a 12AX7-input amp that will "suck more tone out of the guitar" like paralleling the two halves of the 12AX7 input tube instead of using just one side. Doc does this on some of his amps. The RxES and RxJr use the EF86 in the tone stack recovery position...after the tone stack and before the phase inverter. This was the design that Brad Paisley and Zac Childs worked on with the Doc. It makes these two amps very unique in the Z lineup. You'd think that the Stangray might have the wider bandwidth due to the EF86 input, but the Rx's actually seem to have the wider bandwidth. The EF86 coming after the tone stack kind of "supercharges" the tone stack, giving the Rx's a super high end and (helps) to give it a super low end and hot-rodded mids. The RxES was said to be a cross between an AC-30 and a Dumble and I don't think that's too far off. The first time you plug into a RxES (especially with Overdose "on") can be a breathtaking experience. It's a very bold amp. Which one should you get? The Stangray is a world class amp. Period. It's many of our favorite amps, especially with two Blues in an open back cab. It's very much got that Vox "pre top boost AC-30" sound but better. It's got a lot of volume, a lot of clarity, a lot of harmonics, a lot of percussiveness, and the cut and tone controls let you quickly dial up all kinds of variations in the Vox sound from fat bottom (and I mean fat!) with a bight top to a fat lower mid and mellow top...pretty much anything you want. You have to try one to see what I mean. The RxES, especially with Overdose on, is a wild ride. As percussive as the 'Ray is, the RxES is even more percussive and powerful. It's a 45W amp and will blow two Blues. Like I said, it's a high-fi kind of Vox sound (in a good way)...extreme clarity and boldness that lets notes just explode out of the speakers, even set clean. It's an ideal pedal platform. (If you want the *ideal* pedal platform, non-Voxy, an amp with an EF86, and a little hair on the notes as you said, that's a KT-45. Look into that). The Rx is LOUD, and I mean loud. Some have asked Doc to put a master on theirs and IMO it kind of needs one unless you're playing outdoors or in a stadium. It doesn't sound "like Brad"...only Brad sounds like Brad, but you can get that BP-like cut on stage with it. It's a player's amp. It's got more gain on tap than the 'Ray if you crank it, and it's very touch sensitive. The tone controls are almost active in their range and with Teles and Strats it helps to run the treble almost off or use a mellower EF-86 like a Mullard to tame the extreme highs. The tone stack is a little harder to dial in than most amps...especially compared to the telepathic 'Ray controls. You have to be ready to do things like turn off the treble (as they said in the ToneQuest review of the RxES) or max the mids. In the right hands the RxES will do things that no other amp can do except maybe the Z-Wreck. You can't go "wrong" with either of these world class amps though IMO.
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Post by zorange (Zach) on May 22, 2011 16:01:56 GMT -7
Thanks for a great reply, Phil!
I havent heard either of these amps besides what is on Youtube. I was just referring to their tube-types. Looks like from what you said, the KT45 is the amp I need to be looking into!
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on May 22, 2011 16:43:25 GMT -7
Zach, I hate to further complicate matters but I will anyway With the parameters you described, there are a bunch of Z amps that will fit perfectly. They will all sound and feel very differently, but at the end of the day could be your #1 amp. I've written extensively about all Doc's amps except the ones I don't have. That would include the Galaxy, the Z-Wreck and the V1 Mazerati. There was a cool guy on here a while ago that chronicled all my various ramblings by amp, which was really cool...I wonder if that's a sticky forum note somewhere? Anyway, I think you may be on the wrong track by insisting on an EF86. They are great amps to be sure, but the way the Doc designs amps he gets the most tone out of 12AX7 inputs too. My first thought on reading your post was a pretty radical one (just kidding). I too love my MAZ Jr. NR...it's my #1 go to amp. You know what fits all your criteria? A MAZ Sr. NR. It's NOT just the Jr. with two more output tubes. The Sr. NR is one *seriously* underrated amp. I know my friend JASON here on the forum counts the Sr. as his favorite Z. It has a lot of what you love about the Jr. but it has more headroom, and the overdrive is very very smooth, not like the bratty Jr. Doc called it "satiny". With a good reverb pedal in front of the amp and the mids cut into a 2x12 cab I'll put money on it to hang with or beat ANY Twin Reverb. It's that good. It can do the Voxy thing...that "cut" control is the most useful control ever. I went to Willcutts a long time ago for the express purpose of A/B/C/D testing the all four amps... the two NR MAZ's and the reverb versions. What I found is that i VASTLY preferred the NR's...it wasn't even close. I also found (after buying the Jr NR on the spot) that I couldn't live without Sr. NR and a couple of weeks later got him too. The KT-45, as I said, could also fit the bill. It's got the uncanny ability to do the Fender 6L6 thing even with its EL-34's, but can also sound like a Hiwatt, and the treble says "Vox AC50" just a little. It's got more high end clarity than any Z except maybe the RxES. It RULES with 12-string electrics. It's got the most clean headroom of anything except the EZG-50. It's a very percussive amp, especially with a SS rectifier. When you do crank it to the point of overdrive it's killer...it really is like "Live At Leeds". The clean Strat tones in the "in-between" positions are so good you'll laugh out loud...Mark Knopfler would love this amp. Something about the mids make the frequency notch just jump out...not even the EZG sounds this good to me in those pickup positions. The neck pickup Strat sound, as Curt said a long time ago, would be SRV's favorite if he was still with us. Like I said, laugh out loud good. Doc could have marketed this thing as the ultimate neck pickup Strat amp. The EZG-50 would work too, especially since you mentioned Mayer and SRV. It can do either of those guys (clean or dirty) all day. Especially the cleans. It's got the fattest low end of any Z...like a bass amp. It makes my Super Reverb sound bad...really. The highs are smoother, the mids are bolder and smoother, and the bass is to die for...not like on my Super Reverb where you have to watch the bass control. The reverb is to die for too, and I generally prefer non-reverb amps. Based on what you said, I would be looking at either the MAZ Sr NR or KT-45. If you like the slightly Voxier sounds like the RxES or 'ray, the MAZ is still in that ballpark. The KT is more Hiwatty but boy does it have its charm. KT (Katie ) has the EF86 and at the end of the day is probably a slightly better pedal platform, although the 38 NR has a effects loop included, Katie does not. It's an extremely hard decision. If you could play them first you'd know. That's one thing about buying amps: YouTube sound clips do NOT do amps justice. It's like watching a video of a guy driving a Ferrari vs. driving it yourself.
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Post by zorange (Zach) on May 22, 2011 16:53:18 GMT -7
Once again, Phil, you have proved to me that I just need to sit down and play these amps! I can read about them all day but I need to play them with my equipment, my set up, and listen without compressed quality. Thanks for all the help, Phil!
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on May 22, 2011 17:54:41 GMT -7
Once again, Phil, you have proved to me that I just need to sit down and play these amps! I can read about them all day but I need to play them with my equipment, my set up, and listen without compressed quality. Thanks for all the help, Phil! You're quite welcome. If you're going to spend $1000+ on an amp I think it's always a good idea to get to a dealer and try them out...although I realize for some people it'd cost as much as the amp in gas to get to said dealer
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Post by timford on May 22, 2011 22:09:23 GMT -7
I've written a few times about the KT45 and the C 30 too. Sound quite different but both sound great. Saying that though, I usually pick the 'Katie' because I love the cleans. My most common knob settings are 12 12 12 (through as of a few weeks ago 210 golds rather than greens or combo). I've briefly played the stangray as I too was thinking of the ef86 c30 channel, and trying to find an amp that could do it a lot cleaner. Voicing wise though it is the Z voice rather than the matchless voice, and I thought it sounded more like the 'Katie' than the c30. I am going to be doing a side by side of the KT, Stangray and the EZG soon, and can't wait to hear them. Maybe I could take the c30 as well and get a real comparison.
You'll probably just have to bite the bullet and get them all!
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Post by timford on May 23, 2011 15:52:01 GMT -7
Unfortunately there is not a RX of any description on this side of the ocean (as far as I am aware). I would love to hear that preamp setup. I'll have to book a flight for z fest next year so I can hear them all from the horses mouth
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on May 23, 2011 16:12:59 GMT -7
Unfortunately there is not a RX of any description on this side of the ocean (as far as I am aware). I would love to hear that preamp setup. I'll have to book a flight for z fest next year so I can hear them all from the horses mouth We would love to have you! That's one of my greatest wishes: I'd love to see our Z friends from down under at Z-Fest. Maybe you and Jaye and George and Don and the whole gang can get a group air fare discount
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Post by thewallaby on May 26, 2011 1:10:24 GMT -7
Hi timford. I live in melbourne australia and have the only RX in australia as far asim aware of. I got it from ace guitars. I absolutely love it. Though I ant another z 28 too. I got rid of the last one or maybe a mazerati GT
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Post by asattwanger on May 27, 2011 2:54:59 GMT -7
Unless your really into the ef86 thing, that is you know, love, and understand everything about the tube. Including the noise or slight rattle you WILL get. That little bit bit of noise is does not mean you need a new tube, but you might want to keep a really quiet one or three for recording and keep the other good, but slightly noisey ones for live and general work.
Point is 12ax7 based amps are easier and tubes are easier to get.
Then again I had to have another EF86based amp
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