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Post by doctorice on Nov 26, 2010 14:15:47 GMT -7
I did a quick side by side today. Ran both amps through the Celestion in the NR combo with a Headbone to switch. Reverb knob all the way down throughout. Used spl meter to try to minimize volume difference. I will second some of the impressions offered above: 1. The NR is darker sounding. I had to move treble and cut higher to get closer to the verb sound. The same eq settings do not produce the same basic tone. 2. NR has more midrange heft. Frank's assessment rings true to me: verb model a liitle more tilted to blackface, NR to tweed. Bit more chime in the verb model. 3. Gain difference was more modest than I expected. Possible that the midrange content is interpreted as more gain? I tried to minimize other factors, such as cables, by using same brands and lengths. Biggest uncontrolled variable likely was tubes. I suppose an ideal test would use the same tubes fo both amps. I mean literally pull the tubes from one and stick them into the other. I'll leave that for someone else to try
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2010 14:49:20 GMT -7
Nice comparison report Mike!!! Excellent!
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Post by doctorice on Nov 26, 2010 15:05:00 GMT -7
Nice comparison report Mike!!! Excellent! Thanks, Mark. I'm going to leave them set up this way and see if I can distill or tease out some tones that will highlight the differences. Hope to make a short video thereafter. I was running my verb MAZ pretty bright since it's set for the tone bypass. Probably need to move to a different tone zone as the base case.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2010 15:37:12 GMT -7
I have both and this all sounds about right to me. The reverb model is brighter and thinner, with perhaps a bit less gain and less overall apparent volume. The NR has more bass, and the mid content seems shifted toward the lower, fatter mids compared to the reverb's upper mid emphasis. The highs are slightly more round, and the amp breaks up sooner with the volume past 12:00. I like my reverb combo a lot, but the NR is, for me, a much better amp.
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Post by doctorice on Nov 26, 2010 16:24:14 GMT -7
I have both and this all sounds about right to me. The reverb model is brighter and thinner, with perhaps a bit less gain and less overall apparent volume. The NR has more bass, and the mid content seems shifted toward the lower, fatter mids compared to the reverb's upper mid emphasis. The highs are slightly more round, and the amp breaks up sooner with the volume past 12:00. I like my reverb combo a lot, but the NR is, for me, a much better amp. Nice to have both My verb is the 2x10, and I think it does the BF thing very well, albeit with EL84 compression. I'm not used to hearing it through the Cele, though.
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Post by Scott on Nov 26, 2010 16:25:34 GMT -7
Nice comparison report Mike!!! Excellent! +1
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Post by BritInvasion on Nov 26, 2010 16:50:29 GMT -7
Thanks for the excellent comparisons Mike. I have to agree , best to have both! I'd like to get an NR to compliment my Maz18. Probably be my next move , unless I go with a Remedy. As my band plays classic rock , the Maz18Jr head and convertible cab allow me to cover a huge range of styles , which is why I'm partial to the reverb model as my go-to amp. But the NR really covers a lot of territory too. Neither amp is "better" than the other , it comes down to which of these great amps gives you what you want or need to hear.
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Post by Andy 67 on Nov 27, 2010 5:32:25 GMT -7
Thanks for the report, as always great, Mike. I'd love to have both too, but I'd better start saving for my Remedy (or that Zupro, if it ever comes to life....). Tons of tone!!!
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Post by Russell B on Nov 27, 2010 6:27:53 GMT -7
I did a quick side by side today. Ran both amps through the Celestion in the NR combo with a Headbone to switch. Reverb knob all the way down throughout. Used spl meter to try to minimize volume difference. I will second some of the impressions offered above: 1. The NR is darker sounding. I had to move treble and cut higher to get closer to the verb sound. The same eq settings do not produce the same basic tone. 2. NR has more midrange heft. Frank's assessment rings true to me: verb model a liitle more tilted to blackface, NR to tweed. Bit more chime in the verb model. 3. Gain difference was more modest than I expected. Possible that the midrange content is interpreted as more gain? I tried to minimize other factors, such as cables, by using same brands and lengths. Biggest uncontrolled variable likely was tubes. I suppose an ideal test would use the same tubes fo both amps. I mean literally pull the tubes from one and stick them into the other. I'll leave that for someone else to try This makes a lot of sense. I used to have a 2002 MAZ Senior with verb with 2 Celestion Blues. I loved that amp, but it was just too loud. I tried and tried to make the Jr. non-verb with the Blue match that Senior in sound. The Senior didn't have the low end of the Jr, but the gain was very "refined" Maybe "smooth" is a better word. With that said, I love my Jr. NR with Blue and will just about not used anything else. I wonder if a Jr. with verb would get closer to that Senior's sound?
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Post by doctorice on Nov 27, 2010 7:15:29 GMT -7
New idea for the a/b test: max the tone knobs to allow max gain/min attenuation from tone circuit. Not everyone's preferred setting, but it should further narrow the test to midrange content and gain differences. (i assume the cut circuitry in the power section is identical across versions.) May get to it later today
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Post by doctorice on Nov 28, 2010 15:56:29 GMT -7
Did extensive listening test with the tonestack maxed. Also maxed Master and varied volume settings (9, 12, 3, max o'clock). No major change to previous observations. One thing I did that moved the sounds even closer was to set the Cut on the verb model all the way down. I put the NR cut around 8:30 to get similar, to my ears -- and my hearing is pretty shot at high frequencies -- upper frequency content and response. If anything I find the gain difference to not be that large with the above tone settings. I did have an spl meter (cheap Radio Shack one) and with everything but Cut maxed on both amps, the spl was, maybe, 1-2 db different. Most obvious is the recessed midrange on the verb model relative to the NR, or flipped around, the more forward midrange of the NR compared with the verb. It all sounds good, but I would be less pleased with the NR if the Cut knob weren't so effective at bringing back some highs. With everything else dimed, it's pretty dark. YMMV. Caveat: the tubes in the verb are fairly new, whereas those in the NR probably could be replaced. Some of the relatively darker sound may have been produced by more worn-down output tubes. Always interested in confirmation or variant impressions, but I think I'm done with this a/b comp for now. Thanks for listening.
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Post by BritInvasion on Nov 28, 2010 17:13:35 GMT -7
Thanks for being willing to take the time & effort to do that testing Mike! Very interesting and very informative for sure. Thanks for sharing it.
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Post by Scott on Nov 28, 2010 18:57:12 GMT -7
As always, a fine job Mike... Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2010 6:45:02 GMT -7
hey Mike, great review and tests once again! Thanks!
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Post by doctorice on Nov 29, 2010 14:14:36 GMT -7
Happy to do it since I've been curious about the differences too. One amp / gear related item to remove from my list. (There are plenty of others that I will get to someday ) One more comment: The verb MAZ will probably seem too bright or brittle if you set the Cut on it to the same position as you would on the NR model when trying one out. This follows from the observation I posted above.
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Post by zorange (Zach) on Nov 29, 2010 15:09:20 GMT -7
Welcome zorange! By any chance did you get your Maz Jr from Eddie's Guitars? Jim Thanks for the welcome! And yes I did! I worked with Nathan, and some younger guy who I dont know the name.
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Post by zorange (Zach) on Nov 29, 2010 15:11:54 GMT -7
Hey zorange! Welcome to the world of Dr Z! Congrats on your new amp! You will love it here and love that amp even more! Looking forward to hearing more from you Thanks man! How do you like the xotic's AC and BB pedals with your amp? I'm looking into them pretty hardcore.
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Post by doctorice on Nov 29, 2010 15:48:41 GMT -7
Hey zorange! Welcome to the world of Dr Z! Congrats on your new amp! You will love it here and love that amp even more! Looking forward to hearing more from you Thanks man! How do you like the xotic's AC and BB pedals with your amp? I'm looking into them pretty hardcore. My $0.02: don't have the AC (yet); love the BB into the MAZ and every other amp I've tried it with.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2010 18:04:17 GMT -7
zorange, I LOVE em both! Been using the AC for a bit of "hair" and the BB for the grit. I run the AC in front of the BB and when they are both on....let me just say "YUMMMMM". My favorite pair of OD pedals I have ever had. I also run a Lizard Leg Effects Flying Dragon to sum it all up and make it LOUDER! lol
I think Frank said it best when he says that neither amp is better than the other, it's just what ever one suits your style and needs. I would have been equally as happy to have a reverb model...in all honesty I wouldn't have known there was a difference in the two until I read all this stuff. I am just happy and fortunate to own a Z period!
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Post by jed1952 on Nov 29, 2010 19:01:25 GMT -7
[quote Thanks for the welcome! And yes I did! I worked with Nathan, and some younger guy who I dont know the name. [/quote]
I have had the pleasure of talking with Nathan on a few occassions. For some odd reason I always end up giving him a chunk of my income right before I walk out of the store! ;D By the way, the Xotic AC gets along very well with the Maz Jr. Thinking about adding a BB at some point.
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Post by doctorice on Dec 16, 2010 20:34:15 GMT -7
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Post by Jefferson on Dec 17, 2010 11:04:09 GMT -7
Hey guys,
Great info here. thanks Dr. I.
I have owned both reverbs and NR's in both head/cab and combo configurations.
To me, the real difference between the two wasnt so much the level of gain or the highs/mids/lows, but rather it was the level of compression.
the reverb, to my ears, seemed to compress much quicker than the NR. Conversely, the NR seemed to be more open and articulate with better ring between notes, even on chords.
This didnt really appear to me until i spent a lot of time trying to dial in the JR with my LP. Then the differences really became more apparent. In fact, unlike most of you, I like my Jr NR better with LP than with my Tele (dont get me wrong, i love it with Tele, but i really love it with LP!). No flames please.
With Volume at about 2:00 and MV to taste, usually around 9:00, treble low and mid/bass high with cut to taste, the Jr and LP are amazing. Very open and articulate yet still able to just rock out when i stand on the pick attack.
I would love to hear what others of you think about the compression differences in the two amps.
Just my 2 cents.
JR
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