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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Aug 28, 2007 7:11:29 GMT -7
I haven't played my SRZ-65LE in a while; I've been busy giving love to my other Z's. Last night I got out the SRZ and plugged my Vintage Hot Fralin equipped .011 strung Strat into my T-Rex Room Mate and then into the amp. I played with the controls a while and, as a "cleaner with just an edge of dirt" guy, wound up with these settings which sounded cool through my Z-Best: presence-noon bass- just "on"; about 8:30 mids- 9:00 treble- 12:00 master- max I started raising the gain and found that anywhere near 9:00 (barely "on") that even with low output pickups the amp's getting crunchy. I never noticed this before because I have spent my hours on the SRZ with a humbucker equipped guitar, with the gain up, playing hard rock. Is this normal? I would have expected to get the gain up a little higher with the master wide open before crunch time. I'm running the stock LE tube set that came in the amp and it's biased at 36mA. Thanks, Phil
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Post by skydog958 on Aug 28, 2007 7:53:31 GMT -7
Checking the output tubes' rating and bias might answer that question. When I plug in my strat it doesn't seem very crunchy, although I'm always pushing the speakers (I like the Master dimed) so I hear some of the compression from the output section. I'm using the GT E34LS tubes at #6 rating biased at 34-36 mA for what it's worth.
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Post by Curt on Aug 28, 2007 8:12:35 GMT -7
Phil, Mine is that way too, no real clean to be found, and I like a dirty clean but to where you get that snap on a Tele or Strat when hybrid picking with lots of 'meat' on the strings.
I was researching pre amp tubes last nightm I have a nice selection but will try the RFT you've mentioned, 5751's and other lower gain tubes.
Also, in my KT 45 and Sewell I prefered EL34M's so I plan to snag a pair of those as well....and try a 5U4 for giggles.
Mine is a KILLER for slide tones though !!!
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Aug 28, 2007 8:29:26 GMT -7
Same deal here. But roll your guitar volume back to about 5 and "thar she blows!" You can get really great cleans from this amp if you lower the output of your guitar fairly significantly. This tells me some tube swaps could achieve the same thing. But it sounds really great as is with the guitar volume lowered. Try it.
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Post by skydog958 on Aug 28, 2007 8:55:12 GMT -7
I must like a really "on the edge" clean tone.
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Post by dock66 on Aug 28, 2007 12:23:13 GMT -7
I agree,it seems that guitar volume rolled back is the key to clean tone. I use a 1x12 C-Gold cab with my SRZ65 LE ,stocked tubes.
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Cotton
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by Cotton on Aug 28, 2007 14:43:39 GMT -7
Mine is pretty much in line with the reports above. My LE gets dirty quickly. But it is a very musical tone. I use it through a 90's 410 Matchless cab with boosted mids and bass. It always sounds warm and inviting to my ears. Great amp. A true keeper.
Cotton
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Aug 28, 2007 15:46:49 GMT -7
I also want to try a set of GT KT77S in a #7 or #8 rating. The only thing stopping me right now is price. The only place I've found the GT's are straight from GT for $80 a pair. I've seen the original JJ (same tube with less stringent testing) from other vendors for $32! What should I do Phil
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Post by skydog958 on Aug 29, 2007 8:45:38 GMT -7
I also want to try a set of GT KT77S in a #7 or #8 rating. The only thing stopping me right now is price. The only place I've found the GT's are straight from GT for $80 a pair. I've seen the original JJ (same tube with less stringent testing) from other vendors for $32! What should I do Phil Follow the Tone.
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Post by rhythmeister on Aug 29, 2007 13:36:59 GMT -7
It is an interesting question. We experimented with Steve's SRZ LE at the PNW Z-event, and it seems clear that this amp lacks clean head-room, with the factory setup. My old '93 SRZ-65RH is a different beast altogether.
But I think the question for tube tweakers is this: is the early breakup coming from the pre-amp (overly sensitive gain) or the power section. My guess is that it is from the pre-amp. There's no way that any power tubes should be breaking up at the low volumes this amp seems to get dirty at. If that is right, one should be looking at lower-gain pre-amp tubes, and not at higher # power tubes.
Just trying to say that if it was me, I'd be trying to pin down whether I was getting pre-amp distortion or power tube distortion that was sullying my clean tone. I'd want to figure that out before buying a bunch of other tubes.
Cheers, Blair
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Post by skydog958 on Aug 29, 2007 13:51:38 GMT -7
Blair, is your SRZ the one formally owed by Joe Walsh? If it is then the cause of the extra headroom is that Joe had that one designed to be very clean to power a Leslie speaker, but I think you already know that.
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Aug 29, 2007 16:42:44 GMT -7
Blair, is your SRZ the one formally owed by Joe Walsh? If it is then the cause of the extra headroom is that Joe had that one designed to be very clean to power a Leslie speaker, but I think you already know that. That amp should be pretty easy to spot. I'm pretty sure it was originally equipped with KT88's! Phil
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Post by Curt on Aug 29, 2007 17:45:12 GMT -7
It seems I saw somewhere that Joe Walsh one floating around is 112 watter . Mine I'm certain is pre amp gain....and lots of it, too much for me really.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Aug 29, 2007 19:18:13 GMT -7
It seems I saw somewhere that Joe Walsh one floating around is 112 watter . Mine I'm certain is pre amp gain....and lots of it, too much for me really. Since turning the guitar down resolves the preamp distortion, my thought is either a 5751 in V1, or a slight input divider tweak.
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Post by Curt on Aug 29, 2007 20:28:29 GMT -7
It seems I saw somewhere that Joe Walsh one floating around is 112 watter . Mine I'm certain is pre amp gain....and lots of it, too much for me really. Since turning the guitar down resolves the preamp distortion, my thought is either a 5751 in V1, or a slight input divider tweak. Yep, I tried a long plate GT 12ax7R2 in V1 and it took away a bit of brightness, I need to dig out a 5751 and try that..prolly a 12AT7, AY and AU as well..what ever I can dig up. Wanna try 'em in V3 also. FWIW, I checked my bias...37.8 mA.....spot on where Doc prefers
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Aug 29, 2007 20:46:42 GMT -7
One thing that really struck me when I played mine out last week - playing it live it didn't sound nearly as gainy as it does here at home. There was definitely distortion, but the underlying sound was big, beefy and articulate. Changed my perception for sure.
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Post by Curt on Aug 30, 2007 10:38:48 GMT -7
Had some time at home this AM waiting on an appointment, Ms Curt was out so I had a chance to 'REALLY' play the SRZ. GT 12AX7 R2 in V1, all other tubes stock,into a single Texas Heat; Presence 9:00 everything else straight up noon Man, my '58 RI Paul LOVED it Best tone I've pulled out of it yet, pretty cleans (as in pretty sound) and when rolled full on//well SMOKIN' lead tones...and Slide?? Get outa town..friggin' cookin' !!!
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Aug 30, 2007 11:41:12 GMT -7
...and Slide?? Get outa town..friggin' cookin' !!! OH YEAH! My SRZ sounds GREAT for slide!
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Post by Curt on Aug 30, 2007 12:02:05 GMT -7
...and Slide?? Get outa town..friggin' cookin' !!! OH YEAH! My SRZ sounds GREAT for slide! "Ain't but............one way out........." ;D
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Aug 30, 2007 14:54:05 GMT -7
You guys have given me some good advice. I'm going to try the ol' preamp tube experiments next. I've got a good supply of NOS 12AY7's, 5751's, etc. OR, I could just change the volume pot to a 1M, worked last time, didn't it Curt? Phil
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Post by Curt on Aug 30, 2007 15:09:28 GMT -7
You guys have given me some good advice. I'm going to try the ol' preamp tube experiments next. I've got a good supply of NOS 12AY7's, 5751's, etc. OR, I[glow=red,2,300] could just change the volume pot to a 1M, worked last time, didn't it Curt? [/glow] Phil Yup ;D
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Post by rhythmeister on Aug 30, 2007 15:17:53 GMT -7
Blair, is your SRZ the one formally owed by Joe Walsh? If it is then the cause of the extra headroom is that Joe had that one designed to be very clean to power a Leslie speaker, but I think you already know that. Hey, To the best of my knowledge, mine was not designed for Joe Walsh. I believe mine actually predates his (not by much as he had his out on Hell Freezes Over in 1994), as mine's a '93. Mine runs a pair of EL34s (currently older Czech Teslas) in the power section. Cheers, Blair
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Post by deadair on Aug 30, 2007 22:07:31 GMT -7
hey guys, i can clear this up as i am the owner of the, apparently infamous haha, joe walsh srz. i actually had a heck of a time with it and eventually had to send it to the good ol' dr to find out someone had modified it rolling off all of the high end. ug! so, that was taken care of, and dr z put in some hours himself with the amp to wire it up to be as an srz should be, and not the clean amp once built for joe. it also got all new tubes and a solid state rectifier. i received it right before a tour, and took it on the road, paired with a jcm800. i was digging it on tour, but didn't have too much time to twiddle with the knobs as i was too busy playing..... anyways, since returning from the road i havent had too much of a chance to play around with it, and i'm still trying to figure it out a bit..... anyone else feel like the knobs are very sensitive and very interactive on these guys? i like the amp overall, but am having a hard time dialing it exactly where i want it to be i feel...... it's nice that it has so much control and options, but does make it harder for me to zero in on the 'right' setting.....!
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Post by myles on Aug 31, 2007 9:20:25 GMT -7
This all depends more on the tubes in V1 and V3 the phase inverter ... not the output tubes or the bias as much.
And .... even the same tubes of the same type can be very different.
That is why all the tubes in Carl's two SRZs were hand picked and selected after a lot of blueprinting hours with him playing and dialing in what he liked.
I do this every day and for folks like Brad Paisley, Chad Weaver had two drawers full of many of "the same tubes" with different specs for different shows or venues.
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Post by woody on Aug 31, 2007 14:43:24 GMT -7
I found an old amperex 12at7...maybe I should try it in V1?
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Post by nitehawk55 on Aug 31, 2007 18:48:55 GMT -7
I found an old amperex 12at7...maybe I should try it in V1? Give it a try , it won't hurt it . I think you'll find that will drop it way down and won't sound good . A 5751 or 12AY7 will drop it 30% a 12AT7 about 70% .
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Post by woody on Aug 31, 2007 21:24:59 GMT -7
I tried it...definitely cleaned it up BIG TIME.... Gain 3:00 Master 11:00 Bass 12:00 Mids 3:00 Treble 9:00 I'm not good at descibing tone but "hear" goes... With the guitar cranked it sounded decent but lost a little bit of that "spongy" overdrive feeling. Guitar turned up half way it got real clean and volume was still a decent level....however it sounded stiff...like an unbroken in speaker.... We'll see how it sounds with full band...that can be a different story.... btw was using an Am Deluxe Stratocaster Bridge position...
Overall not bad.....however I feel like I'm taking away the character of the amp...of what it was designed to do....or sound....
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Post by myles on Sept 4, 2007 16:40:16 GMT -7
A 12AT7 is one of the worst tone generators on the planet. If you want to be in this gain range use a 5751.
The 12AT7 will pull ten times the current as a 12AX7 or 5751. Feel it after ten minutes. HOT! Try the same thing with an AX7 or 5751 .... quite warm but it will not burn you.
My advice is to get that awful AT7 out of there. They are current drivers, NOT tone generators. The 5751 will give you the same gain result but not be raspy or run hot. The 5751 was SRV's trick in Fender black face amps by the way.
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Post by johnnyl on Sept 5, 2007 10:42:44 GMT -7
hey guys, i can clear this up as i am the owner of the, apparently infamous haha, joe walsh srz. i actually had a heck of a time with it and eventually had to send it to the good ol' dr to find out someone had modified it rolling off all of the high end. ug! so, that was taken care of, and dr z put in some hours himself with the amp to wire it up to be as an srz should be, and not the clean amp once built for joe. it also got all new tubes and a solid state rectifier. i received it right before a tour, and took it on the road, paired with a jcm800. i was digging it on tour, but didn't have too much time to twiddle with the knobs as i was too busy playing..... anyways, since returning from the road i havent had too much of a chance to play around with it, and i'm still trying to figure it out a bit..... anyone else feel like the knobs are very sensitive and very interactive on these guys? i like the amp overall, but am having a hard time dialing it exactly where i want it to be i feel...... it's nice that it has so much control and options, but does make it harder for me to zero in on the 'right' setting.....! this look familiar deadair?
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Post by woody on Sept 5, 2007 12:12:25 GMT -7
A 12AT7 is one of the worst tone generators on the planet. If you want to be in this gain range use a 5751. The 12AT7 will pull ten times the current as a 12AX7 or 5751. Feel it after ten minutes. HOT! Try the same thing with an AX7 or 5751 .... quite warm but it will not burn you. My advice is to get that awful AT7 out of there. They are current drivers, NOT tone generators. The 5751 will give you the same gain result but not be raspy or run hot. The 5751 was SRV's trick in Fender black face amps by the way. Thanks Myles... You're right ....I pulled it not too long after I put it in...took too much of the character away from amp...
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