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Post by digidude101 on Dec 21, 2009 17:46:15 GMT -7
I recently purchased an RX/ES 1-12 blonde combo w/Celestion Gold alnico .
First of all I am using a G&L ASAT classic w/ SD Vintage stacks and a Gibson Melody Maker with P-90. I primarily play country and classic rock stuff. In the past I have used Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue, 1970 Silverface Twin w/JBL K-120s, 1998 Stephenson Class A 30W prototype head and a homemade JTM-45 head w/KT-66s.
I bought the amp based on what I heard on the websites sound clips only to be quite disappointed in the tone of the amp once I got it. I found it to be extremely bright but not in a flattering way. No matter what i did with the tone stack it had an over the top end chime that just sounded terribly fuzzy when overdriven.
I have an abundance of 12" speakers so I was swapped out the Celestion Gold 50W alnico with a Vintage 30. Still didn't like it. Then a put in a Weber C1230-55 30w. The treble was somewhat subdued but still had that fuzzy bright overdrive. So I took the Jensen ceramic C12K 100W speaker out of my Deluxe Reverb and put it in. The thing sounds fantastic! To my ears it is the most perfectly balanced speaker for this amp and I now love it! I can actually turn the treble knob up now. It's still a little fuzzy but not near as bad as before. The amp now sounds really tight!
I am just wondering if the bright fuzzy overdrive is a character of the stock EL-84s. Are there any other tubes that are recommended to get a little smoother drive?
Thanks!
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Post by miroslav on Dec 21, 2009 18:31:11 GMT -7
I bought the amp based on what I heard on the websites sound clips only to be quite disappointed in the tone of the amp once I got it. I found it to be extremely bright but not in a flattering way. No matter what i did with the tone stack it had an over the top end chime that just sounded terribly fuzzy when overdriven. Man...it's SO GOOD to hear someone say this, 'cuz now I know I'm not crazy! I purchased an RX ES a few weeks back, and it too came with the Gold stock, and I too have EXACTLY the same opinion about the high-end tone that you do. It's just SO bright and poppy...some serious ice pick stuff going on! I pulled the Gold out and tried a few different speakers, finding that a Celestion G12H30 sounded the best, however, the G12H30 is only 30W, so I've been looking for something similar but that can handle the higher wattage. I was looking at some of Weber’s Jensen-style offerings, as that seemed like the way to go…though I would think one of the Alnico versions might be even smoother than a ceramic…? Heck...the last week I was already thinking about selling the RX ES if I couldn't find a way to tame those ice pick highs. I had the treble down almost “OFF”...and it was STILL annoying to my ears...and I'm playing mostly humbuckers! I can't imagine how much brighter it must sound with single coils…? I guess some guys like that brightness...but I sure don't. It was so bright and percussive, that it actually was making my humbuckers sound like I was playing single coils! ;D Anyway...much thanks for posting your opinion and solution. I really wanted to love the RX ES and keep it...but the brightness was annoying me, and I haven't played it once in the last two weeks, preferring to play my other amps. Now I know there is a solution. Thanks!
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Post by digidude101 on Dec 21, 2009 19:26:04 GMT -7
Well I definitely recommend the Jensen C12K. Check out the sound clip on this one. jensentone.com/c12k.phpCompare it with others like the C12N and C12P. I don't think going to another alnico speaker is going to help you. Ceramic magnets are naturally way warmer sounding than alnico. They keep a nice tight but deep low and smoother top. Dr. Z should really think about putting the C12K in his combos. It will work great with humbuckers and single coils.
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Post by miroslav on Dec 21, 2009 19:52:36 GMT -7
I listened to the Jensen clips before. I actually think they are all lousy clips! I mean...I don't think they did them very well...but I get the overall gist. Anyway...I've always heard it the other way around...that AlNiCo speakers are "warmer" than ceramics. Mind you, I know the magnet is just part of what makes up the speaker tone, and you CAN have a bright/chimey AlNiCo speaker too, but look on the Weber site at their "Vintage" speakers, which are basically clones of the Jensens. For every AlNiCo model they have a ceramic version, and they always point out that the ceramics are more aggressive/loud/punchy than the ALNICO versions. This is what Ted Weber said about the two: "The ceramic magnet, on the other hand, doesn't compress or demagnetize as easily, so the voice coil moves to its mechanical limit and won't go any farther. This is why some players say ceramics sound a little edgy at high average levels as opposed to AlNiCo. "But I DO believe you that the C12K sounds good with the RX! ;D I'm may consider trying the Jensen Jet Series Blackbird: jensentone.com/jp12-100bb.phpAccording to Jensen's Tone Chart...that has the smoothest highs and overdrive out of all the Jensen models. I'm just glad to hear someone else thinks the RX is way too bright…and also that there is a solution to the RX ice pick high-end. I will try a few more speakers before I settle on one. I'll give Weber a call tomorrow and see what they recommend based on the issues we both have with the RX. I only wish Ted Weber was still alive...he really knew his stuff about speakers.
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Post by digidude101 on Dec 21, 2009 20:08:12 GMT -7
Yes The Blackbird would also be a nice choice! It actually reminds me of the alnico JBL K-120s I had. Very warm and punchy
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Post by rcrecelius on Dec 22, 2009 8:46:06 GMT -7
Anyway...I've always heard it the other way around...that AlNiCo speakers are "warmer" than ceramics. This is what Ted Weber said about the two: "The ceramic magnet, on the other hand, doesn't compress or demagnetize as easily, so the voice coil moves to its mechanical limit and won't go any farther. This is why some players say ceramics sound a little edgy at high average levels as opposed to AlNiCo. "Alnico Webers - yes, when pushed, they do sound warmer/softer/more compressed...but...if your not pushing very hard they can be very bright...at least that was my experience with a Weber Alnico Blue I had.
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Post by rcrecelius on Dec 22, 2009 8:47:29 GMT -7
I'll add that a Celestion Gold stays bright no matter how hard you push it
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Post by redunlap on Dec 30, 2009 13:59:27 GMT -7
I am sorry to say I have the same issue with the ES. I bought mine while I had an ear infection. (Yeah, I know I'm an Idiot) As soon as my ears cleared, I realized my mistake. I have tried different speakers with no relief from the harsh, icepick treble. There is also a pronounced lack of bottom in mine. To get any drive, the amp has to be near full volume and OD on. By then it is too loud. A Bad Cat leash can tame the volume, but completely destroys any tone. I am going to give the Speaker you used a try. I may even install a Master Volume. This thing is built like a Tank and I'd really like to get it under control.
Good luck !
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Post by digidude101 on Jan 1, 2010 2:41:46 GMT -7
The Jensen C12K allows for a lot of low end and a smooth top end which really helps. I also recommend the Brake lite. I wouldn't worry about installing a master volume unless you just want to modify it. The brake lite works great. I set the brake lite on 2 and the volume on 4 or 5 and it's the perfect for any stage. I'm going to try to post some audio clips so you have an idea what i mean. I'll get to that sometime next week. My gear is sitting in a club until Sunday.
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Post by dickenscpa on Jan 2, 2010 8:41:00 GMT -7
The Jensen C12K allows for a lot of low end and a smooth top end which really helps. I also recommend the Brake lite. I wouldn't worry about installing a master volume unless you just want to modify it. The brake lite works great. I set the brake lite on 2 and the volume on 4 or 5 and it's the perfect for any stage. I'm going to try to post some audio clips so you have an idea what i mean. I'll get to that sometime next week. My gear is sitting in a club until Sunday. I'll 100% agree with this statement. Before I got my Ghia, my RXES was used everywhere I played and mostly small places. A Brakelite and one of those Jensens was the ticket for me. My Jensen C12(Q?) is only 94db. Between that and a BL, I was set and got loads of compliments on the sound. My Jensen is only 35W I know, but the purpose I was using it for wasn't going to blow it out anyway. My Jensen tamed any treble, but be very careful. That treble you tame at home is treble you need live. I remember the first live recording I heard of us and it wasn't until then that I realized how necessary it is to cut thru and it doesn't sound trebly live, it just sounds good. I found myself dialing that treble back up in gig situations. My setup live is as follows: Hwy 1 Tele into a wireless->ABY box I have a Route 66 Comp/OD and an EH Delay. I have my Ghia with both knobs at 1 o'clock and my RXES into the low input. All knobs on the RXES are at noon except volume which is on about 9:30. When a solo comes up I step on the RXES footswitch and viola! The RXES is going thru a 50W Red Fang and the Ghia is going thru a G12H30. Played together it's a beautiful sound. I play them in stereo on all songs except real clean predominant acoustic numbers. Our acoustic player isn't a good picker so I play the RXES real clean by itself with a touch of delay on those songs. My delay takes a bit of my volume and I hit the footswitch on the RXES also. Works like a charm on all accounts.
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Post by digidude101 on Jan 17, 2010 21:23:18 GMT -7
Here's a clip: RXES with Jensen C12K
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Post by digidude101 on Jan 17, 2010 21:27:03 GMT -7
Clip 2:
Gibson P-90...Xotic AC Plus....RXES-C12K
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Post by digidude101 on Jan 17, 2010 21:28:26 GMT -7
Clip 3:
G&L ASAT Classic with Seymour Duncan Vintage Stacks...Xotic AC Plus...RXES-C12K
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Post by texasjoe on Sept 22, 2010 17:57:50 GMT -7
I know what you mean about the samples. They are brad dialing up the amp and it sounds dark and mysterious. I have the junior model and I can get a dark sound out of it. I have the Bass at 8, treble and mid just below two. I'm running it through an avatar cab with two G12h30's. It sounds just like the demos. When I turn it up though I notice that the treble comes out more. Do you think it could be related to the fact that Brad is using a Z cab?
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