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Post by shark38j on Oct 26, 2009 9:05:06 GMT -7
This may be a stupid question but I need to ask. I have a Maz 38 and love it. I'm thinking about getting the brake light for it, but I don't understand what the difference is between putting an attenuator on an amp versus adjusting the master? Isn't that the point of the master, or am I just missing something? Thanks for the help.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Oct 26, 2009 11:45:04 GMT -7
There is a big, gigantic difference. When you turn the master volume down, you are lowering the signal level that the power tubes see from the preamp. So the power tubes get cleaner tones. With the master volume all the way up, you have the most potential for some power tube saturation. But with the master all the way up, you're starting to harm small animals with the volume. That's where the Brake Lite comes in. You leave your master set where you get the tone you want, and adjust the volume using the attenuator (Brake Lite). All of a sudden you're always in the sweet spot, even if you have to turn way down.
Go to your dealer and try it. It will change everything about how you use your amp, unless you ONLY EVER use pristine clean tones. If you like even a bit of hair on your tone, an attenuator will revolutionize your approach.
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Post by shark38j on Oct 26, 2009 13:05:15 GMT -7
Steve, I really appreciate the help, but I'm still not sure I understand. Does the volume knob drive the preamp and the master drive the poweramp? I always thought that to get a dirtier sound you drive the preamp signal up with the volume knob and adjusted it to the volume you need with the master. Does the overdriven sounds of a tube amp come from the poweramp, preamp or both? If so how does preamp and poweramp saturation differ?
Sorry for all the questions, but I would really like to understand this better. Thanks for the help.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Oct 26, 2009 15:29:32 GMT -7
Steve, I really appreciate the help, but I'm still not sure I understand. Does the volume knob drive the preamp and the master drive the poweramp? I always thought that to get a dirtier sound you drive the preamp signal up with the volume knob and adjusted it to the volume you need with the master. Does the overdriven sounds of a tube amp come from the poweramp, preamp or both? If so how does preamp and poweramp saturation differ? Sorry for all the questions, but I would really like to understand this better. Thanks for the help. Not a dumb question at all - in fact it is very smart to have asked, because until you get this, you really don't get your amp at all. If you go back to the old original amps without master volume controls, they all sounded fabulous when they were wide open, but they were loud. In the '70's, folks like Randall Smith started putting a master volume in there and making the preamp in such a way that it could overdrive quite a lot. The master volume controlled the overal level, and the preamp volume controlled the amount of saturation present. But there's a fly in the ointment - it sounded pretty bad, compared to those old classic amps without master volumes. People began to realize that to get really great tone, you need to have the power tubes involved in the creation of the saturation. A traditional master volume like you find on a Mesa Boogie just doesn't allow that - the design metaphore is that all the distortion comes from the preamp. This is one of the things that makes Dr. Z amps sound so much better - he really gets it when it comes to how to get great tones out of an amp. Your amp in particular, you have nailed the description perfectly. The volume controls preamp saturation, the master controls power amp saturation. Of course the master also makes the level go up, as does the preamp volume. So, enter the attenuator. The Airbrake and the Brake Lite let you crank either or both of those volume controls to get the exact tone you're looking for. And believe me, when you hear the power amp straining with a bit of distortion going on, even with the preamp not up that high, you'll hear SUCH a difference. Try it. Really, you won't believe the difference.
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Post by shark38j on Oct 26, 2009 15:48:15 GMT -7
Thanks for the information Steve. I have been trying to get more gain by running the volume high and keeping the gain low, but there is definitly something missing. I'm going to get the brake light and see if that helps the tone.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Oct 26, 2009 16:52:50 GMT -7
Thanks for the information Steve. I have been trying to get more gain by running the volume high and keeping the gain low, but there is definitly something missing. I'm going to get the brake light and see if that helps the tone. Well this isn't the Senior (it's the Junior) but this is with both volumes wide open. You should get similar results assuming you're driving the input similarly: Maz Jr Wide Open - keep watching - when I roll the guitar volume up it goes magic. On that clip I was using the Hot Plate attenuator just because I happened to have it handy and my Airbrake was in my gig kit.
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Post by Eddie on Oct 26, 2009 23:17:00 GMT -7
Steve is oh so right on this shark.
The brake lite changes how the amp feels at lower volumes. HIGHLY recommended.
Peace, Eddie
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Post by edoetsch on Oct 30, 2009 13:03:27 GMT -7
Not knowing too much about amp circuits, there's 2 basic points where overdrive can happen.
1) Pre Amp 2) Power Section
For the Pre Amp multiple 12ax7's are cascaded into each other with the overdrive happening only with those tubes. You can keep the master really low, yet have overdrive. However, it is all coming from the pre amp tubes. The power tubes are close to idle at bedroom volume. This is like cranking the Maz pre amp and leaving the master low.
For Power Section, turn the master all the way up and begin with the pre amp low, bringing it up. By the time you get overdrive, it's killing your ears, but you love the pain. Here there is probably a little bit of overdrive from both the pre amp (depending on how high that setting is) and the power tubes. This is what you want and where the magic happens.
To decrease the pain and keep the pleasure, use the attenuator.
For a non-master amp like Route or Ghia, to get pre amp distortion, you'd have to hit the amp with a pedal like a clean booster. As you can imagine, this not where the magic happens.
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Post by doctorice on Oct 31, 2009 10:47:31 GMT -7
The Brake Lite is a fabulous addition. I was playing in a very live and fairly small bar last night. My Remedy without the BL would have been way too much, but with the BL, it was perfect. Same for the MAZ, which I used in the same place last time we gigged there. Same great result, as I was able to get the MAZ power tubes into the sound equation.
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