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Post by swampcooler on Oct 13, 2005 20:45:49 GMT -7
Hi,
I just got a used 66 on ebay. Very clean. It has ghost notes. I have tried 2 different speaker cabs, checked the bias, down around 28 ma.
I emailed Z and he gave a few suggestions, and said to get the bias down to about 28 ma, so I'm good there. I even put new tubes in it, rebiased too.
I changed the cap can from the JJ to a Ruby left over from a Marshall project. Same value but way better, smoother, deeper bass now. Tight and clear.
But, still ghost notes.
What's next? Thanks for your thoughts on this one. And yes, it's a great amp.
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Post by taswegian on Oct 14, 2005 8:30:02 GMT -7
Ghost notes are usually from a microphonic EF86 valve. Try replacing it with a good NOS. Mike at KCA should be able to fix you up. Definitely worth it. If you tap on it (EF86) with the eraser on a pencil while the amp is on and it makes a loud continuous noise there is a good chance that it is microphonic. Great amps, good luck.
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Post by lurko on Oct 28, 2005 9:06:37 GMT -7
Any preamp tube that you tap on will make a noise. The way to tell if it's truly microphonic is if the ringing continues on after the tube is struck.
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Post by kledbet on Nov 7, 2005 21:22:03 GMT -7
After playing 3 of these amps and then getting a few emails from Z, I now know that these ghost notes are a part of this design. They are not unusual and depending on your setup you will not hear them live. My amp usually gives me an extra sound a 6th lower than my fingered note. This is especially noticable on the higher strings and further up on the fretboard. I don't think there is much that can be done about it. Although I love the sound of this amp I must admit that I wonder why it is necessary to induce actual extra notes into my playing. I would like to know how some of you who know about the extra notes deal with it. Do you like it? Does it somehow help? Anyway if you practice with performance level or you use an airbrake or hotplate and you play alone, you will hear what sounds like a second guitar shadowing you.
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Post by cementman on Nov 7, 2005 23:17:20 GMT -7
sorry but i cant get behind this theory. i bought a new route 66 a few years ago, it had ghost notes at certain registers on the neck of different guitars. after emailing dr z i sent it back, his response was "filter caps". after i got it back, no ghost notes. i traded the amp for a slightly used kt45. i cannot believe dr z has designed an amp with ghost notes. dr z amps are hyped as transmitting the actual sound of your guitar, with nothing else added (basically), your weakness and strength as a guitarist will come through. and another thing, i have a z-28 combo that will not accept groove tube 6v6's nor will it take jj's. all have spikey noises, unplayable. BUT with a pair of nos 70$ a pair tubes, there is no noise,, mucho bass, and the amp is playable. noise trouble with amps is not an easy topic of discussion. i marvel that you folks seem to have it all figured out.
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Post by cementman on Nov 7, 2005 23:21:35 GMT -7
and another thing. i have a 2003 maz senior 2/12 combo. after a year of the stock groove tube el84's, i replaced them with jj's. sounded fine, but a few months later, with light usage, one tube was getting really realy hot. bought a new set of groove tubes, and after the amp came on there is a loud dual thump from the speakers, then it is quiet and ok. for some reason, groove tubes and jj's dont work right in some amps, and are fine in others. the jj el84s are great in the maz senior, but not right for the z-28. i think there is more going on here than meets your/my eye. hmmm
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Post by Stumpy on Nov 8, 2005 3:13:15 GMT -7
a the jj el84s are great in the maz senior, but not right for the z-28. i think there is more going on here than meets your/my eye. hmmm Naw... Sounds to me like it is nothing more than you may have ran across a couple of bad replacement tubes. I would stick with 6V6's in the Z-28. ... I love the Route 66 just the way it is! ;D
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Post by taswegian on Nov 8, 2005 4:10:04 GMT -7
Guys, I have recorded and entire album using only the Route 66 and believe me, if there were ghost notes, the engineer would have picked it up as he has the ears of a bat! I just hope we're not confusing "ghost notes" with "overtones". I suspect not but this amp has a lovely bloom and some glorious overtones, that's what makes it such a thick sound. I think we need to remember that at the heart of all valve amps is the valves, which are pretty much out of the amp makers control. All he can do is build an amp to the best of his ability and then valves will do with it what they will. I have very expensive NOS tubes in my amp. I don't know if that is the answer but persevere because it's too good an amp to not be firing on all cylinders. Good Luck to all.
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Post by kledbet on Nov 8, 2005 8:41:14 GMT -7
What I am saying about the ghost notes is what Z told me in his email is normal. I have spoken with 3 other Z owners who own new 66's and they say that their amps also have the ghost notes. Believe me if I can get rid of them I will, but why would a new amp need filter caps of bias adjusting? I had 2 emails from Z where he said this was built into the design and if I did not like it go get another amp. to be honest I love the amp and hate the ghost notes. I am going to mess with the bias when my next 66 comes in and if it helps I will be sure to post to let you know if it deals with the issue.
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Post by kledbet on Nov 8, 2005 8:45:33 GMT -7
I know you are probably very busy but if you can could you place the amp on 12 or 1 volume, then play on the g or b string single whole notes at the 10-14th fret and just listen for any notes underneath? I am really glad you mention that your amp does not do this... I wish mine did not.
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Post by cementman on Nov 8, 2005 8:53:03 GMT -7
just to clarify: i use only 6V6's in my z-28. i have tried 2 different sets of jj 6V6s AND a new set of groove tube 6V6's direct from groove tubes for the z-28 , and ALL of them have spikey noises. when i used a set of NOS tubes, it is gone. by the way, i have never tried any other power tubes in the z-28 but 6V6's, although 6L6's can be used with a bias. i have also never used anything other than el84s in my maz senior 38 combo. i love both amps, but i will say that the maz senior really really eats tubes quickly, and mine has a fan.
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Post by myles on Nov 8, 2005 9:24:05 GMT -7
just to clarify: i use only 6V6's in my z-28. i have tried 2 different sets of jj 6V6s AND a new set of groove tube 6V6's direct from groove tubes for the z-28 , and ALL of them have spikey noises. when i used a set of NOS tubes, it is gone. by the way, i have never tried any other power tubes in the z-28 but 6V6's, although 6L6's can be used with a bias. i have also never used anything other than el84s in my maz senior 38 combo. i love both amps, but i will say that the maz senior really really eats tubes quickly, and mine has a fan. On the Z-28 .... What is the bias milliamp draw with the NOS vs the new tubes?
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