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Post by benttop (Steve) on Aug 18, 2009 10:05:33 GMT -7
why so expensive? my friend made one for about $30.00 Try going into business and selling them for that much. You'll be out of business before the tenth one is out the door....
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Post by prettynoiselab on Aug 18, 2009 10:53:18 GMT -7
why so expensive? my friend made one for about $30.00 Try going into business and selling them for that much. You'll be out of business before the tenth one is out the door.... Bravo! People tend to forget that you have to make money to stay in business. I feel all Dr. Z products are reasonably priced and worth every penny. Now to save my pennies for a Stangray, Remedy, Jaz, Maz Jr NR, Srz-65...... yeah that should do it for now. ;D
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Aug 18, 2009 12:22:37 GMT -7
That's the thing. You take $30 worth of parts, add a nice silk-screened chassis for another $20, upgrade a few of those parts to the good ones for another $10, figure in your labor and profit margin, then figure in the dealer's profit margin, and you start to see what a great buy this Brake Lite really is. I'd be surprised if you could build one of these at home in less than a couple of hours, including drilling a plain aluminum chassis, mounting up the components, soldering, marking, testing, packaging, and shipping to your buds who want one for $30. Lessee here - two hours of labor for $30, and you had to buy the parts too.... not very good business!
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Post by kruzty on Aug 18, 2009 12:31:32 GMT -7
Not to mention, are you sure the homemade device is interacting properly with the amp. If you know what you are doing, maybe it isn't a big deal. BUT - would I hook up "some guy's" attenuator to my $1,500 amp? Not a chance...
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Post by wally on Aug 18, 2009 13:11:44 GMT -7
true! plus the cost of shipping , i didnt have a problem paying for it knowing it was made in the usa, i guess i really didnt think about all that ,my buddy just looked at me and said you paid how much for that!!!! and then he made one , sorry z brothers i wasnt trying to offend anyone geeeez!
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Post by bluzman on Aug 18, 2009 14:06:57 GMT -7
I've built many pedals and the like over the years at about 30-50 bucks a pedal that would have cost me about 150-175 bucks or so new/used. They work great! After logging my time and materials and the satisfaction I got, it was well worth it. I saved some dough, the pedals do a great job... they don't look as nice though. If I were going to build them to sell the whole idea is to provide a good product at a reasonable profit... Profit is figured after all expenses. So my home-built pedals would have to sell for 100++ bucks. And I'd be a one man show... add the stress of being serious about your business, time for design and layout, locating sources for the materials,getting parts in on-time and orders out on time, labor, legal fees, quality control, handling... General Good Will comes with a price tag too. Then I hopefully do pretty well and have to expand and add people, office equipment, payroll, insurance, rent, workers comp... Not much real profit when you think about it. Z-Amps is a real company and not just one guy putting stuff together... anymore My perception fwiw
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Aug 18, 2009 14:19:38 GMT -7
true! plus the cost of shipping , i didnt have a problem paying for it knowing it was made in the usa, i guess i really didnt think about all that ,my buddy just looked at me and said you paid how much for that!!!! and then he made one , sorry z brothers i wasnt trying to offend anyone geeeez! No offense taken. It's a valid question (actually, almost any question is valid). Hope you see how to answer your bud - ask him if he'll build all 3000 of us brake lites for $30 each? Bet he won't. One thing you'll come to appreciate about this forum is that most folks' questions are just answered, with plain talk, no recriminations. If you're wondering, just ask, and someone will answer. Just the facts, ma'am...
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Post by foxx on Aug 18, 2009 17:28:36 GMT -7
true! plus the cost of shipping , i didnt have a problem paying for it knowing it was made in the usa, i guess i really didnt think about all that ,my buddy just looked at me and said you paid how much for that!!!! and then he made one , sorry z brothers i wasnt trying to offend anyone geeeez! No offense taken. It's a valid question (actually, almost any question is valid). Hope you see how to answer your bud - ask him if he'll build all 3000 of us brake lites for $30 each? Bet he won't. One thing you'll come to appreciate about this forum is that most folks' questions are just answered, with plain talk, no recriminations. If you're wondering, just ask, and someone will answer. Just the facts, ma'am... This is just one reason that this is the best forum out there, civil discussion. Not to mention all the great knowledge. I love you guys!! ;D
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Post by Eddie on Aug 18, 2009 18:26:20 GMT -7
I've built many pedals and the like over the years at about 30-50 bucks a pedal that would have cost me about 150-175 bucks or so new/used. They work great! After logging my time and materials and the satisfaction I got, it was well worth it. I saved some dough, the pedals do a great job... they don't look as nice though. If I were going to build them to sell the whole idea is to provide a good product at a reasonable profit... Profit is figured after all expenses. So my home-built pedals would have to sell for 100++ bucks. And I'd be a one man show... add the stress of being serious about your business, time for design and layout, locating sources for the materials,getting parts in on-time and orders out on time, labor, legal fees, quality control, handling... General Good Will comes with a price tag too. Then I hopefully do pretty well and have to expand and add people, office equipment, payroll, insurance, rent, workers comp... Not much real profit when you think about it. Z-Amps is a real company and not just one guy putting stuff together... anymore My perception fwiw This is very well said, Paul. I also build pedals at home. I started out doing it for myself and a few friends. I'm not a pro - read electronics guru - but I can solder and read directions on a kit. My "angle" was the pedal box design. Still, to this day, I've not made two pedals that look the same. I have about $35 to $65 in parts in any pedal I build, BUT it takes me f-o-r-ev-er to design and paint the cases. I typically charge $80 to $120 for a pedal to folks I know. When you calculate my time, I'm probably making $2 per hour. For a short while, I was persuing pedal building as a good way to make extra money. It isn't, IMO. I still enjoy it, but I only pick up a kit-building job once in a while - no advertising other than my website which gets 5 hits a year! :-) I've saved some money by building things at home, but not much. There are costs to things you don't always stop to consider. When someone says that a BrakeLite should only cost $30 because that's all there is in parts, they misunderstand a lot. Profit is not a dirty word. Peace, Eddie
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Post by wally on Aug 19, 2009 8:35:29 GMT -7
yea i will tell him to get started , im going to need everyones credit card info asap!
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Aug 19, 2009 9:15:32 GMT -7
yea i will tell him to get started , im going to need everyones credit card info asap!
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Post by modguy on Aug 19, 2009 20:04:52 GMT -7
I've gotta agree with Wally here, as few components as there are in the brake lite, it could be done for somewhere around $30-40 with quality components, not including silk screening the enclosure. Everyone knows you can't turn a profit selling them for that price, but the guy never said his buddy was selling them.
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Post by bluzman on Aug 19, 2009 20:53:00 GMT -7
I've gotta agree with Wally here, as few components as there are in the brake lite, it could be done for somewhere around $30-40 with quality components, not including silk screening the enclosure. Everyone knows you can't turn a profit selling them for that price, but the guy never said his buddy was selling them. Not to beat a dead horse here, but Dr. Z Amps is a business.
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Post by modguy on Aug 19, 2009 21:17:35 GMT -7
I've gotta agree with Wally here, as few components as there are in the brake lite, it could be done for somewhere around $30-40 with quality components, not including silk screening the enclosure. Everyone knows you can't turn a profit selling them for that price, but the guy never said his buddy was selling them. Not to beat a dead horse here, but Dr. Z Amps is a business. And to repeat myself, Wally never said his buddy was selling them, just that it could be done for a somewhat lower price. Even upping the price enough to make a decent profit, makes $150 seem high. For ~$100 you could make a pretty decent profit, especially considering the Doc is probably getting components and enclosures at wholesale prices, and some sort of deal on silk screening.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Aug 19, 2009 21:44:10 GMT -7
Well sure, there is only a few thousand dollars worth of steel in a Ferrari too, but that doesn't mean they should sell for that much.
What exactly are we paying for when we buy a Brake Lite from Dr. Z?
1. The integrity of the design. 2. The quality of the assembly. 3. The quality of the components. 4. The post sale support.
Any of us can build a similar device from components we got at Radio Shack, but we don't get any of those advantages. We might have fun, we might only spend $30, it might even work. But when it comes to gig time, I'm using the one Dr. Z designed. I know that thing works right, and won't hurt my amp.
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Post by Eddie on Aug 19, 2009 23:02:12 GMT -7
modguy,
I don't think anyone disagreed with wally. He asked a question and folks responded.
His question was why the brake lite is so expensive. We were trying to answer that question.
Perhaps your point is that the Doc's stuff is overpriced? If so, I recommend you don't buy any of it.
The food I get at a nice restaurant costs more than it does at the grocery store. Personally, I'm OK with that even though some may think I'm throwing my money away.
Thanks for both of your posts, Eddie
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Post by bluzman on Aug 19, 2009 23:08:47 GMT -7
Not to beat a dead horse here, but Dr. Z Amps is a business. And to repeat myself, Wally never said his buddy was selling them, just that it could be done for a somewhat lower price. Even upping the price enough to make a decent profit, makes $150 seem high. For ~$100 you could make a pretty decent profit, especially considering the Doc is probably getting components and enclosures at wholesale prices, and some sort of deal on silk screening. I don't want to get into selling Telecasters but using your rationale: I can build a nice Telecaster using the same raw materials as Fender for about $350 bucks and shape the body and route it out, shape the neck and fret the fingerboard. OR I can buy a Fender Nocaster for about $2500.00. I know Fender is getting discount on bulk buying of the raw materials but they still sell it at THEIR PRICE... It's a decision one makes. I bought the Nocaster! ...and I bought 2 Brake-Lites. Plus I'm going to stick my neck out here and I'm guessing that the enclosure and "screening" are the bulk of the cost. Your first 2 posts make me wonder if you have an agenda. Just my perception... I apologize if I am mistaken.... No offense intended and none taken.
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Aug 20, 2009 4:15:47 GMT -7
When you calculate my time, I'm probably making $2 per hour. Peace, Eddie That sounds a lot like the extremely small profit I make from my photography (when I actually get paid that is)
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Post by modguy on Aug 20, 2009 4:47:22 GMT -7
modguy, I don't think anyone disagreed with wally. He asked a question and folks responded. His question was why the brake lite is so expensive. We were trying to answer that question. Perhaps your point is that the Doc's stuff is overpriced? If so, I recommend you don't buy any of it. The food I get at a nice restaurant costs more than it does at the grocery store. Personally, I'm OK with that even though some may think I'm throwing my money away. Thanks for both of your posts, Eddie Yes that is my point, that the brake lite is overpriced for the few components it consists of. Do I think that about Z amps? No, because I know about the large amount of design and testing involved, and I know I couldn't pull it off for anywhere near that cost. No offense to anyone, just stating my opinion.
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bns
Junior Member
Posts: 73
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Post by bns on Aug 20, 2009 18:30:30 GMT -7
For what it's worth, the brakelite may be "expensive" but, as long as people are buying it, it is not "overpriced". Modguy's question was why is it expensive and, although I know nothing about how to build an attenuator, I think the answer is because Dr. Z. has chosen to market and price it as boutique item. That's cool - just supply and demand (and marketing psychology) working as it should. If it was overpriced, it would mean nobody is buying it. The fact is, a lot of guitar stuff that we buy is damn expensive, but realistically not overpriced because it still sells.
Now I'm looking around at all my expensive gear and hope I never have a flood in my basement!
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Post by modguy on Aug 22, 2009 13:00:49 GMT -7
For what it's worth, the brakelite may be "expensive" but, as long as people are buying it, it is not "overpriced". Modguy's question was why is it expensive and, although I know nothing about how to build an attenuator, I think the answer is because Dr. Z. has chosen to market and price it as boutique item. That's cool - just supply and demand (and marketing psychology) working as it should. If it was overpriced, it would mean nobody is buying it. The fact is, a lot of guitar stuff that we buy is damn expensive, but realistically not overpriced because it still sells. Now I'm looking around at all my expensive gear and hope I never have a flood in my basement! So, by your rationale, if someone started selling this exact attenuator using the exact same components, enclosures, and paint scheme excluding the Dr Z logo, for say, $90 instead of $150-170, the Brake lite still wouldn't be "overpriced"? Seems to me you're all suckered into paying a pretty penny for that little "Z" logo. Oh, and don't worry about your gear, it's not "overpriced", just expensive, you can always afford to buy more.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Aug 22, 2009 13:11:51 GMT -7
For what it's worth, the brakelite may be "expensive" but, as long as people are buying it, it is not "overpriced". Modguy's question was why is it expensive and, although I know nothing about how to build an attenuator, I think the answer is because Dr. Z. has chosen to market and price it as boutique item. That's cool - just supply and demand (and marketing psychology) working as it should. If it was overpriced, it would mean nobody is buying it. The fact is, a lot of guitar stuff that we buy is damn expensive, but realistically not overpriced because it still sells. Now I'm looking around at all my expensive gear and hope I never have a flood in my basement! So, by your rationale, if someone started selling this exact attenuator using the exact same components, enclosures, and paint scheme excluding the Dr Z logo, for say, $90 instead of $150-170, the Brake lite still wouldn't be "overpriced"? Seems to me you're all suckered into paying a pretty penny for that little "Z" logo. Oh, and don't worry about your gear, it's not "overpriced", just expensive, you can always afford to buy more. By your rationale there should be dozens of such products out there on the market with companies making a killing on them. Can you give me a link to even one? I don't think there are any out there at that price point, and there is a reason. A company cannot stay in business making stuff and giving it away. Now I'm done with this thread.
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Post by modguy on Aug 22, 2009 13:16:39 GMT -7
And to repeat myself, Wally never said his buddy was selling them, just that it could be done for a somewhat lower price. Even upping the price enough to make a decent profit, makes $150 seem high. For ~$100 you could make a pretty decent profit, especially considering the Doc is probably getting components and enclosures at wholesale prices, and some sort of deal on silk screening. I don't want to get into selling Telecasters but using your rationale: I can build a nice Telecaster using the same raw materials as Fender for about $350 bucks and shape the body and route it out, shape the neck and fret the fingerboard. OR I can buy a Fender Nocaster for about $2500.00. I know Fender is getting discount on bulk buying of the raw materials but they still sell it at THEIR PRICE... It's a decision one makes. I bought the Nocaster! ...and I bought 2 Brake-Lites. Plus I'm going to stick my neck out here and I'm guessing that the enclosure and "screening" are the bulk of the cost. Your first 2 posts make me wonder if you have an agenda. Just my perception... I apologize if I am mistaken.... No offense intended and none taken. No offense, but I disagree with you. It would cost alot more than $350 for the raw materials to build a Tele, and in the end it becomes more cost effective to buy a factory produced guitar, which was my original point about the brake lite. You are correct about the bulk of the cost being the enclosure and screening, though. Total assembly time for one of these is probably 15-20 minutes max. No agenda here, just sensibility
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Post by zdogma on Aug 22, 2009 17:13:48 GMT -7
For what it's worth, the brakelite may be "expensive" but, as long as people are buying it, it is not "overpriced". That's cool - just supply and demand (and marketing psychology) working as it should. If it was overpriced, it would mean nobody is buying it. I agree, that's the bottom line.
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Post by zdogma on Aug 22, 2009 17:24:55 GMT -7
For what it's worth, the brakelite may be "expensive" but, as long as people are buying it, it is not "overpriced". Modguy's question was why is it expensive and, although I know nothing about how to build an attenuator, I think the answer is because Dr. Z. has chosen to market and price it as boutique item. That's cool - just supply and demand (and marketing psychology) working as it should. If it was overpriced, it would mean nobody is buying it. The fact is, a lot of guitar stuff that we buy is damn expensive, but realistically not overpriced because it still sells. Now I'm looking around at all my expensive gear and hope I never have a flood in my basement! So, by your rationale, if someone started selling this exact attenuator using the exact same components, enclosures, and paint scheme excluding the Dr Z logo, for say, $90 instead of $150-170, the Brake lite still wouldn't be "overpriced"? Seems to me you're all suckered into paying a pretty penny for that little "Z" logo. Oh, and don't worry about your gear, it's not "overpriced", just expensive, you can always afford to buy more. Why are you wasting your time here? People are trying to be respectful, and you're entitled to your opinion, but you keep saying the same thing over and over. You think its overpriced, I get it! We all get it. IF you would like to participate here, stop beating a dead horse, and contribute something useful to this forum.
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Post by Rich (fbb90) on Aug 22, 2009 17:34:48 GMT -7
So, by your rationale, if someone started selling this exact attenuator using the exact same components, enclosures, and paint scheme excluding the Dr Z logo, for say, $90 instead of $150-170, the Brake lite still wouldn't be "overpriced"? Seems to me you're all suckered into paying a pretty penny for that little "Z" logo. Oh, and don't worry about your gear, it's not "overpriced", just expensive, you can always afford to buy more. Why are you wasting your time here? People are trying to be respectful, and you're entitled to your opinion, but you keep saying the same thing over and over. You think its overpriced, I get it! We all get it. IF you would like to participate here, stop beating a dead horse, and contribute something useful to this forum. Yeah! What he said! ;D
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Post by bluzman on Aug 22, 2009 18:14:05 GMT -7
Seems to me you're all suckered into paying a pretty penny for that little "Z" logo. SUCKERED!?!? Why should you care what we are willing to pay for our gear whether expensive or overpriced or reasonably priced? While you are entitled to your opinion I am entitled to mine and my opinion sez I don't like your style... You OVERRATE your opinion here, in my opinion! SUCKER somebody else with "your opinion"... we obviously ain't biting! Let's see.... "modguy", you are either a "mod" like in the WHO movie or you steal ideas and tweak them. Your attitude told us which one it is... but that's just my opinion.
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bns
Junior Member
Posts: 73
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Post by bns on Aug 22, 2009 19:12:24 GMT -7
For what it's worth, the brakelite may be "expensive" but, as long as people are buying it, it is not "overpriced". Modguy's question was why is it expensive and, although I know nothing about how to build an attenuator, I think the answer is because Dr. Z. has chosen to market and price it as boutique item. That's cool - just supply and demand (and marketing psychology) working as it should. If it was overpriced, it would mean nobody is buying it. The fact is, a lot of guitar stuff that we buy is damn expensive, but realistically not overpriced because it still sells. Now I'm looking around at all my expensive gear and hope I never have a flood in my basement! So, by your rationale, if someone started selling this exact attenuator using the exact same components, enclosures, and paint scheme excluding the Dr Z logo, for say, $90 instead of $150-170, the Brake lite still wouldn't be "overpriced"? Seems to me you're all suckered into paying a pretty penny for that little "Z" logo. Oh, and don't worry about your gear, it's not "overpriced", just expensive, you can always afford to buy more. If you could buy the exact same attenuator with the same after-care, warranty, etc. for half price, and the manufacturer had any marketing savvy, then I think this discussion would be moot because Dr. Z. wouldn't be able to sell his Brake Lite at the current price. In that case, I would buy the knock-off. I bought the Brakelite for 3 reasons (1) small, (2) inexpensive compared to other attenuators on the market (3) installed for me at the factory before they shipped the amp to the store I bought it from (I would be uncomfortable doing it myself). I measured those factors against the price and decided it was a good deal for me. I also don't think people buy the Z Brakelite for the "brand" because it gets installed where nobody can see it. Hard to show off your purchase when it's hidden inside your cabinet. Not sure why the need for sarcasm about my gear or my ability to afford it (which comes from working very hard so I have no guilt about it). I guess you're entitled to post whatever comments you want but as others have said, this is a rather polite forum (which makes it great IMHO) so you may want to take it down a notch. Next topic....
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Post by modguy on Aug 22, 2009 19:33:26 GMT -7
Seems to me you're all suckered into paying a pretty penny for that little "Z" logo. SUCKERED!?!? Why should you care what we are willing to pay for our gear whether expensive or overpriced or reasonably priced? While you are entitled to your opinion I am entitled to mine and my opinion sez I don't like your style... You OVERRATE your opinion here, in my opinion! SUCKER somebody else with "your opinion"... we obviously ain't biting! Let's see.... "modguy", you are either a "mod" like in the WHO movie or you steal ideas and tweak them. Your attitude told us which one it is... but that's just my opinion.Don't ever accuse me of "stealing" anything
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Post by bluzman on Aug 22, 2009 19:36:38 GMT -7
SUCKERED!?!? Why should you care what we are willing to pay for our gear whether expensive or overpriced or reasonably priced? While you are entitled to your opinion I am entitled to mine and my opinion sez I don't like your style... You OVERRATE your opinion here, in my opinion! SUCKER somebody else with "your opinion"... we obviously ain't biting! Let's see.... "modguy", you are either a "mod" like in the WHO movie or you steal ideas and tweak them. Your attitude told us which one it is... but that's just my opinion.Don't ever accuse me of "stealing" anything You not only bit, but you're the SUCKER!
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