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Post by Gregg White (aka stratbrat) on Jan 20, 2008 14:03:49 GMT -7
I sold a Ray to try and find a Z amp that had a little more crunch. I bought a Mazerati with a Weber Blue Dog. I do like the Rati and I really like tone for bluesy songs.
Here's the BUT; I've played in several different groups the past several weeks, and I am having some concerns. To me, regardless of guitar, regardless of settings, regarless of effects in front if it, I am finding the Rati to be sounding "thin" and "hollow" in a band setting. The cleaner tones sound great and sit in the mix well. But take a song like "Train Kept A Rollin'" and the chord-work disappears, yet the leads stand out fine, and in another genre, same effect with "Save A Horse..."
I've retubed with several different combinations... I could hear differences, but this didn't cure my concerns.
OK, this is the first Blue Dog I have played through. Could it be the characteristics of the Weber that I am hearing? Do you all think that I'd hear a big difference by trying another speaker? I've tried to read the speaker threads, but I can't discern if this may be worth exploring.
Thanks for any input!
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Post by telejas on Jan 20, 2008 14:38:19 GMT -7
A speaker change would make a big difference, but I'm not sure what speaker to recommend? I'm using a Red Fang, which is a 30wt celestion blue copy and should be pretty close to the Weber blue as well (if your's is AlNiCo). I honestly like my Rati better than my Ray for the distorted stuff, it just sounds more aggressive to my ears.
Let me ask you this.... Was your weber blue new or used? When I got my Weber's they were new, not broken in, and I HATED the tone and almost *almost* got rid of them, but I gave them a chance to break in, and for me that was the deciding factor. I have 2 alnico's, one blue and one silver bell; The blue smoothed out and lost the shrill top end and got an earlier break up, the silver was less scooped out (more - nice mids) and lost the shrill top end I was hearing. I know a few months is a long wait to wait and see if it gets any better, but in my case it was worth it.
I've got GT el84's and the stock 12ax7 and a 5751.... I can't be sure if the preamp tubes are stock, I got it used.
This amp is my favorite "rock" amp, and a close 2nd for cleans (next to the Ray). But it may not be what you're after for tone?? If you have access to other speakers, give them a try. Maybe a ceramic speaker would be what you need, or if you're using a ceramic maybe an alnico would be good for you?
That's my $.02 worth...
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Post by Gregg White (aka stratbrat) on Jan 20, 2008 17:55:09 GMT -7
The Weber was used. It came with the amp and I'm sure it was fairly well broken in.
Maybe it's me. Sounds great just by itself. Great Z tone. It isn't the Ray in chime and clean, but definitely has some good musical breakup.
It just seems to get sucked up when playing in a group. One group I practiced with: Use Sennheiser wireless monitors, had everything mic'ed and we were able to crank everything up to full throttle. I still felt the Rati was a little hollow sounding. The bass player also commented on it. And the band was mostly country, so we didn't need Mesa dual-rectifier level balls.
I've gone from Maz Sr's, a RT 66 and a Ray. Maybe I just need to work with the Rati a little more. I know the Ray took me a while to dial in "the sound", but when I did, man what an amp!
I guess I'm a little impatient because it only has the one tone knob.
Thanks for the input!
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Post by Gregg White (aka stratbrat) on Jan 24, 2008 8:33:35 GMT -7
Ok the mystery may be clearer. When I first got the amp, I thought the tone was super. Played it once or twice in practice, but at lower volume.
My son recently told me that one night after he had borrowed the amp for a gig, some snow got knocked from the top of the SUV into the speaker. He said it was about the amount of a snowball, and he said he was able to remove it fairly quickly. He didn't say anything to me, as he thought it was a non-issue.
I checked out the physical appearance of the speaker, and I could not see any issues. However, does anyone have any opinion about whether the speaker could have been negatively affected by the snow? I did not seem to be having any tone concerns until after this happened.
I guess I'll go buy another speaker and just check it out. Just wondered if anyone thought this might be the issue.
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Post by telejas on Jan 24, 2008 10:24:21 GMT -7
Sounds like someone's going to be mowing the yard a few more times this year
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Post by foxx on Jan 25, 2008 16:33:12 GMT -7
Last week I finally plugged my Rati into another cabinet. I heard a blanket being removed from the front of my amp. My rati combo has a Celestion V30, I have always heard a mid-hump and a reduced high end. The other cab has some kind of Eminence speaker, it came with a head that, together, cost $250. I can only imagine a better sound, clearer, more crisp but not too bright, out of the replacement speaker I am going to buy. But, which one? I don't play in a band, but I know what you mean by "hollow". Sometimes I get lost in the mix while playing with a drum machine. After several guitars, I know it's the rati, if not the V30.
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Post by bluzsteel on Jan 26, 2008 11:08:10 GMT -7
use a Tonker , you'll never look back .it need a real strong speaker. trust me
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Post by Gregg White (aka stratbrat) on Jan 28, 2008 16:24:18 GMT -7
The Tonker, eh. I was thinking about grabbing the GB128 after some reading. Tonker or GB128? Decisions, decisions.
My band recorded some new tracks yesterday. Studio is run by a drummer that used to be in the NBC orchestra and played a couple of seasons on Saturday Night Live. So I figure this guy knows his stuff. (for the most part, he does)
Tells me don't worry about bringing an amp, he has Marshall amps there. Well, they were the solid state series. Luckily, the stuff we were recording were suited for the tone of those Marshalls. But they sure as hell gave me a headache. Just weren't very "musical". Unfortunately, my bandmates LOVED the tone. I'm now in a dilema!
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Post by telejas on Jan 28, 2008 16:57:38 GMT -7
The Tonker, eh. I was thinking about grabbing the GB128 after some reading. Tonker or GB128? Decisions, decisions. My band recorded some new tracks yesterday. Studio is run by a drummer that used to be in the NBC orchestra and played a couple of seasons on Saturday Night Live. So I figure this guy knows his stuff. (for the most part, he does) Tells me don't worry about bringing an amp, he has Marshall amps there. Well, they were the solid state series. Luckily, the stuff we were recording were suited for the tone of those Marshalls. But they sure as hell gave me a headache. Just weren't very "musical". Unfortunately, my bandmates LOVED the tone. I'm now in a dilema! What do bandmates know anyway?? My drummer told me once "Man, why did you get rid of that old amp of yours, that was the best lookin' amp you ever had" - referring to my old Line6 HD147 with almost black lights in the chrome chassis. Besides, we all know that red amps sound better.
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Post by Gregg White (aka stratbrat) on Jan 29, 2008 10:54:52 GMT -7
Yeah, I was dumbfounded!
I kept asking them, "Really? you LIKE the sound of the Marshall solid state? Really? Come on guys, you are pulling my leg!"
Funny though, I had pre-recorded a few parts and they all were in love with the tone-----Mazerati, Xotic BB, American Deluxe Strat, SM57 slightly off-axis and an SM58 for a little ambience.
Oh well, they are a drummer, a bass player, another guitar player that loves his B-52, and a vocalist that doesn't hear any differences in microphones!
Of course, maybe it IS me!
The "snow" issue wasn't an issue. My son showed me where the snow was, it was in the bottom of the cabinet, and only for a few seconds. Didn't touch the speaker or any electronics.
I still like the tone when playing on my own. I think I just need to work on balancing it within the band setup. Think I'll grab a few extra speakers and a 1-12 cab to try differenct combinations.
After all, like amps and guitars, you can never have too many speakers!
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Post by Bill on Jan 29, 2008 14:15:38 GMT -7
Gregg, sounds like you're going through what I did...finding a rig that sounds good to your ears both at home by itself, AND with the band. I've gone through lots of guitars, speakers, pedals, amps...trying to find the happy medium. Adding to the equation (at least in my case) is the slowly changing target...that was the hardest piece of the puzzle to solve. Over time some of us go through some revelations regarding what sound do we REALLY want?
I agree with above about taking with a grain of salt any and all comments from bandmates regarding your tone & what amp you should use. I DO however, listen to my wife...she knows a good sound, really she does!
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Post by Gregg White (aka stratbrat) on Jan 30, 2008 12:08:21 GMT -7
Oh yeah, Bill, the wive's DO know what sounds good and what doesn't!
And I've been going through this "tone quest" for a while now. I think I finally figured it out. It was the bandmate's comments that flipped on the switch. It is a disconnect between my expectations and the bandmate expectations. We really are on different channels, style-wise.
I do like a clean sound. I like each instrument and voice to fill a particular part of the spectrum. The guys I am with now like a different style.
Instead of trying to fit my tone to them, I probably need to start finding folks that my tone fits.
Real friends don't let friends play solid state amps!
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Post by Bill on Jan 30, 2008 16:19:45 GMT -7
The guys I am with now like a different style. Instead of trying to fit my tone to them, I probably need to start finding folks that my tone fits. Real friends don't let friends play solid state amps! Looks like it's coming into focus! The only way I'd do a gig like that is if it paid REALLY well. Being in a band with everyone on the same page musically is like being on autopilot (no pun intended, Gregg!)...it just WORKS so nice.
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Post by Gregg White (aka stratbrat) on Feb 6, 2008 8:12:59 GMT -7
Bill, don't tell anyone, I recently bought a Fender SuperSonic head and cab to go along with the Rati. It's a nice amp and between the 2, things are good. Retubed the Rati. Got a little more high end and definition.
Been recording a few times lately with the Rati. First session was with the studio's amp, a Marshall SS. Have gone back to do some some stuff with the Rati, and a hell of a difference. Studio owner (a retired drummer from the NBC Orchestra, 2 years at SNL) really appreciated the difference that the Rati brought.
Like the Ray, just takes a little time to dial in and appreciate the Rati. Think I'll add a Ray head back into the mix to go with my 2-10" cab.
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Post by Bill on Feb 7, 2008 10:39:23 GMT -7
Bill, don't tell anyone, I recently bought a Fender SuperSonic head and cab to go along with the Rati. It's a nice amp and between the 2, things are good. Retubed the Rati. Got a little more high end and definition. Been recording a few times lately with the Rati. First session was with the studio's amp, a Marshall SS. Have gone back to do some some stuff with the Rati, and a hell of a difference. Studio owner (a retired drummer from the NBC Orchestra, 2 years at SNL) really appreciated the difference that the Rati brought. Like the Ray, just takes a little time to dial in and appreciate the Rati. Think I'll add a Ray head back into the mix to go with my 2-10" cab. Supersonic, huh?...I've been thinking of picking up another Fender, to use along with the Stingray. I tried a Supersonic at an FDP jam once, it was pretty cool...certainly loud enough! May have to take another look...
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Post by Fiestared69 on Feb 7, 2008 11:06:24 GMT -7
Bill , You sure you don't want a SRZ-65LE? instead of a Supersonic!
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Post by cementman on Feb 12, 2008 7:52:57 GMT -7
i never heard one of the newer mazerati's, i had one of the ones made in 2000, dr z said they had different transformers and were "dirtier",, i agree strongly with bluzsteel about a higher powered speaker,, with a low volume speaker i was able to get the best "david gilmour" tone , with a strat,at a low volume,with the amp dimed, with no extra effects, that i have ever heard.
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Post by groovergeorge on Feb 13, 2008 6:16:28 GMT -7
i never heard one of the newer mazerati's, i had one of the ones made in 2000, dr z said they had different transformers and were "dirtier",, i agree strongly with bluzsteel about a higher powered speaker,, with a low volume speaker i was able to get the best "david gilmour" tone , with a strat,at a low volume,with the amp dimed, with no extra effects, that i have ever heard. Wow thats interesting. Ive heard someone comparing the mazerati with certain speakers to a lower powered Hi-Watt so I guess it makes sense that you could get those tones from your strat and rati' straight in. What speaker were you going into......a greenback?
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Post by cementman on Feb 13, 2008 7:44:54 GMT -7
it might have been a single 30 watt g12h30,, cant remember
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